Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Fumiku said: »
deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
Politicians/Media Refuse "proudly Gun Free" Sign
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Politicians/Media refuse "proudly gun free" sign
Deriving their powers not laws. Huge difference. That statement has to do with elected officials and how they gain power in contrast to Britain where people gained political power via heritage or wealth. Valefor.Omnys said: » Cerberus.Pleebo said: » Arguing hypotheticals is futile. I could argue what if the intruder is better armed and trained then you or you're put in a situation where you're more likely to harm those you're trying to protect than the assailant. Condemning those who would choose to protect themselves without guns is, to me, just as silly as condemning those who would choose to use a gun. Actually, that's one of the reasons I wish people would take the offensive about criminals. I'm not a fighter, I'm not. I'm not fast, I won't kick your ***. I don't even lift. If I come in a confrontation with a burglar, if I give them time to make a choice, and they choose to hurt me, I probably won't react fast enough. It's a fact that I accept. It has to do with some nerve problems but whatever. Criminals, often, don't choose dangerous targets. They choose little old ladies and single moms. There's a reason (well, several) that noone tries to steal Lucy Liu's handbag and noone tries to mug the rich old glorious Chuck Norris. The best thing you can do is not be within arm's length of your assailant. No matter how good they are, they're not going to dodge a bullet, even if it's an intentionally non-lethal shot. Jetackuu said: » Cerberus.Devious said: » How do you think the burglar got his gun?... if gun flaw is better controlled, there will be less people with guns. There by less psychos with guns, but theres always a way to get a gun ofcourse. But it wont be held by a kid in school or a father getting up at night shooting at anything that moves because he was woken up by a sound in the middle of the night. Also.. a burglar dont break in to someones home to kill... But if that person was there to kill you, they would have a gun too for sure, and a plan and more importantly the will to kill you. So youre screwed either way :)  Suddenly, ***.
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Also if you two want me to bring the second paragraph of the dec I can...
Quote: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Nature and Nature's god endow men with laws interpreted by political scientists. Man does not endow himself with laws. Bahamut.Baconwrap said: » Also if you two want me to bring the second paragraph of the dec I can... Quote: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Nature and Nature's god endow men with laws interpreted by political scientists. Man does not endow himself with laws. Jetackuu said: » more like they are given rights, and by these rights men create laws. Men don't create laws. Politicians create laws... funny how Rome's derivation of nature and law didn't change even to the US founding fathers... Nature > Philosopher/Political Scientist > Courts > Law Enforcement > Citizens Bahamut.Baconwrap said: » Jetackuu said: » more like they are given rights, and by these rights men create laws. Men don't create laws. Politicians create laws... funny how Rome's derivation of nature and law didn't change even to the US founding fathers... Nature > Philosopher/Political Scientist > Courts > Law Enforcement > Citizens Jetackuu said: » Bahamut.Baconwrap said: » Jetackuu said: » more like they are given rights, and by these rights men create laws. Men don't create laws. Politicians create laws... funny how Rome's derivation of nature and law didn't change even to the US founding fathers... Nature > Philosopher/Political Scientist > Courts > Law Enforcement > Citizens Yes... Politicians do make laws, but they are supposed to make laws for the people they govern....
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: » Jetackuu said: » Bahamut.Baconwrap said: » Jetackuu said: » more like they are given rights, and by these rights men create laws. Men don't create laws. Politicians create laws... funny how Rome's derivation of nature and law didn't change even to the US founding fathers... Nature > Philosopher/Political Scientist > Courts > Law Enforcement > Citizens Jetackuu said: » Cerberus.Devious said: » How do you think the burglar got his gun?... if gun flaw is better controlled, there will be less people with guns. There by less psychos with guns, but theres always a way to get a gun ofcourse. But it wont be held by a kid in school or a father getting up at night shooting at anything that moves because he was woken up by a sound in the middle of the night. Also.. a burglar dont break in to someones home to kill... But if that person was there to kill you, they would have a gun too for sure, and a plan and more importantly the will to kill you. So youre screwed either way :) No your just to stupid to comprehend the logic. But if logic dont work, try facts. Just look up how many killings youre country has compared to countries with gun laws. in other news apparently the TSA is removing some of the more invasive full body scanners, cool.
Fumiku said: » Politicians do make laws, but they are supposed to make laws for the people they govern.... Even your other founding father Benjamin Franklin did not believe that all people deserved "rights." Quote: Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. Jetackuu said: » good thing we're not a democracy On that note. Off to jack n the crack Cerberus.Devious said: » Jetackuu said: » Cerberus.Devious said: » How do you think the burglar got his gun?... if gun flaw is better controlled, there will be less people with guns. There by less psychos with guns, but theres always a way to get a gun ofcourse. But it wont be held by a kid in school or a father getting up at night shooting at anything that moves because he was woken up by a sound in the middle of the night. Also.. a burglar dont break in to someones home to kill... But if that person was there to kill you, they would have a gun too for sure, and a plan and more importantly the will to kill you. So youre screwed either way :) No your just to stupid to comprehend the logic. But if logic dont work, try facts. Just look up how many killings youre country has compared to countries with gun laws. To be fair, its kinda unfair only letting the control laws be the only variable in assessing that. There are a ***ton of reasons america has so many more gun related deaths than the norm. What about executive orders? Would you call that a Politician making a law or a Man making a law?
They're too often made when a president doesn't think he can get congressional support, which makes their whole validity questionable. At least in the eyes of common sense. The E.O. is supposed to be a power of the president to issue orders to the executive branch of the government, which he happens to be boss of. How it ever gets used in the way it does is just... beyond belief. I think neither side takes the issue to the supreme court because they want their poster boys to be able to use it when it's their turn as President. Cerberus.Devious said: » Jetackuu said: » Cerberus.Devious said: » How do you think the burglar got his gun?... if gun flaw is better controlled, there will be less people with guns. There by less psychos with guns, but theres always a way to get a gun ofcourse. But it wont be held by a kid in school or a father getting up at night shooting at anything that moves because he was woken up by a sound in the middle of the night. Also.. a burglar dont break in to someones home to kill... But if that person was there to kill you, they would have a gun too for sure, and a plan and more importantly the will to kill you. So youre screwed either way :) No your just to stupid to comprehend the logic. But if logic dont work, try facts. Just look up how many killings youre country has compared to countries with gun laws. let's start with your illogical assumption that creating stricter gun laws will remove guns from the hands of criminals: the US isn't the rest of the world where guns have been outlawed for a long time, guns don't just vanish because they become illegal. the idea that crazies won't get guns, or gun free zones will become less of targets by restricting private citizen's rights is ludicrous. the idea that most gun owners are irresponsible and shoot at anything that moves, like Stan Smith. the idea that sometimes people there to steal don't come armed and shoot when they see you, even they had no intention to kill is also illogical. your new idea that the US is directly comparable with the rest of the world without factoring in organized crime/drug trafficking/drug trade, other illegal industries (that have no reason to be illegal) creating markets for high crime, and no legal protection. yes, you're full of great logical ideas. the fact of the matter is, your chances of survival increase drastically when you have means to defend yourself vs not being able to, or having to wait for help to arrive.
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: » Fumiku said: » Politicians do make laws, but they are supposed to make laws for the people they govern.... Even your other founding father Benjamin Franklin did not believe that all people deserved "rights." Quote: Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. Jetackuu said: » good thing we're not a democracy On that note. Off to jack n the crack Valefor.Omnys said: » What about executive orders? Would you call that a Politician making a law or a Man making a law? Thus Obama wouldn't be considered a man, he is a philosopher/political scientist or in modern times we just call them politicians. Jetackuu said: » Cerberus.Devious said: » Jetackuu said: » Cerberus.Devious said: » How do you think the burglar got his gun?... if gun flaw is better controlled, there will be less people with guns. There by less psychos with guns, but theres always a way to get a gun ofcourse. But it wont be held by a kid in school or a father getting up at night shooting at anything that moves because he was woken up by a sound in the middle of the night. Also.. a burglar dont break in to someones home to kill... But if that person was there to kill you, they would have a gun too for sure, and a plan and more importantly the will to kill you. So youre screwed either way :) No your just to stupid to comprehend the logic. But if logic dont work, try facts. Just look up how many killings youre country has compared to countries with gun laws. let's start with your illogical assumption that creating stricter gun laws will remove guns from the hands of criminals: the US isn't the rest of the world where guns have been outlawed for a long time, guns don't just vanish because they become illegal. the idea that crazies won't get guns, or gun free zones will become less of targets by restricting private citizen's rights is ludicrous. the idea that most gun owners are irresponsible and shoot at anything that moves, like Stan Smith. the idea that sometimes people there to steal don't come armed and shoot when they see you, even they had no intention to kill is also illogical. your new idea that the US is directly comparable with the rest of the world without factoring in organized crime/drug trafficking/drug trade, other illegal industries (that have no reason to be illegal) creating markets for high crime, and no legal protection. yes, you're full of great logical ideas. the fact of the matter is, your chances of survival increase drastically when you have means to defend yourself vs not being able to, or having to wait for help to arrive. That's more opinion, than fact. Unless you can cite a study of some kind to back that claim. Bahamut.Baconwrap said: » Fumiku said: » Politicians do make laws, but they are supposed to make laws for the people they govern.... Even your other founding father Benjamin Franklin did not believe that all people deserved "rights." Quote: Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. Jetackuu said: » good thing we're not a democracy On that note. Off to jack n the crack He also said this which is more essential to the thread “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Jetackuu said: » no we're a republic, which derives it's power (and authority (aka ability to create laws)) from the people. Wrong. You're confusing laws with power, the two aren't the same. Quote: Today the term republic still most commonly means a system of government which derives its power from the people rather than from another basis, such as heredity or divine right. This remains the primary definition of republic in most contexts. Republic The only way your statement remains true is if power = law. Which in politics translates to a dictatorship. Kimble2013 said: » That's more opinion, than fact. Unless you can cite a study of some kind to back that claim. I guarantee there has been, but I'm way too tired and lazy right now to hunt them down. for now I'll give you the case of the GA woman who's alive with her 2 children.
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: » Valefor.Omnys said: » What about executive orders? Would you call that a Politician making a law or a Man making a law? Thus Obama wouldn't be considered a man, he is a philosopher/political scientist or in modern times we just call them politicians. My point was he's a single man imposing his ideals when he knows they'll conflict with the rest of the government that is supposed to keep him in check. It's nothing new. Obama isn't the first and won't be the last to exploit the Executive Order. Bahamut.Baconwrap said: » Jetackuu said: » no we're a republic, which derives it's power (and authority (aka ability to create laws)) from the people. Wrong. You're confusing laws with power, the two aren't the same. Quote: Today the term republic still most commonly means a system of government which derives its power from the people rather than from another basis, such as heredity or divine right. This remains the primary definition of republic in most contexts. Republic The only way your statement remains true is if power = law. Which in politics translates to a dictatorship. laws are a subsection of power, not equal. Jetackuu said: » Kimble2013 said: » That's more opinion, than fact. Unless you can cite a study of some kind to back that claim. I guarantee there has been, but I'm way too tired and lazy right now to hunt them down. for now I'll give you the case of the GA woman who's alive with her 2 children. That's one instance and can hardly be taken that it would be true for majority of robberies. Was he trying to rob the place or breaking in to just harm them? Jetackuu said: » government derives it's power from the people Again the term power specifically refers to political office. In contrast to how British monarchs gained power/political office. Kimble2013 said: » Jetackuu said: » Kimble2013 said: » That's more opinion, than fact. Unless you can cite a study of some kind to back that claim. I guarantee there has been, but I'm way too tired and lazy right now to hunt them down. for now I'll give you the case of the GA woman who's alive with her 2 children. That's one instance and can hardly be taken that it would be true for majority of robberies. I said for now, I'll attempt to get back with you on that though, as I'm curious as to the accuracy of said studies myself. Jetackuu said: » it's hierarchical, it derives it's power from the people, and from said power they make laws, without power, they couldn't make laws. This is how laws are made: nature > politician > laws/courts > enforcement > citizens Citizens simply elect politicians in office. Never do citizen replace nature or politician is what I'm getting at. |
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