Jobs That Needs Updates....

I soloed most of the time on RDM since this was before level sync came out. Though I got to admit I do enjoy soloing so I can avoid crap parties.

Now if I could only get that kind of luck on Monk.

Blm in aht urgan pts arent hard. The few time that i was invited i was back up healer to the whm or smn. To the HQ birds it wasnt a problem since i AM'd my first one and almost killed the pld.

And cool thing is that they can be ES silenced so nuke away at 50% hp cause i did and it worked for me. But ya my fellow blm's just be the healer worked for me before the level sync came out.

I do agree that blm is fine since /sch or /rdm is pretty much what we need for like spells and in JA's and if they were going to bring one out i would say a JA that sacs acc and mag atk bonus for a 5 minute reflect. Would be nice or give that to a whm or rdm. Oh new smn idea for wings.... That summon should be siren :P debuff AOE ftw.

Healing duties on BLM is fail. I refuse to even backup heal if I can't nuke. If I wanted to heal, I'd lfp on a healer job.

That said, I have no problems curing when needed. I just have problems with being invited to cure rather than to do my goddamn job.

I'll toss a cure here and there but i refuse to be only first second or third heal and no nuking on blm. I may as well lfp on whm or sch.

And i agree with ya 100% . Im not being invited to heal in the first place i just volunteer because its with the colibre.

And even then you can nuke @ 10% so the pt doesnt feel your wrath.

In the last 4 years of playing only job that I haven't seen get some kind of boost would be BLM and NIN. Thought I might outline some of my thoughts on the jobs.

WAR - Retaliation - helped a bunch recently
MNK - Footwork - ehh... room for improvement could be a guarding JA or something along those lines.
THF - Accomplice/Collaborator - ok but couldn't hurt to have dual wielding, shadows are optional since they rarely have hate unless tanking.
WHM - Recent updates and spells brought this back up.
RDM - Composure/En 2s were ok but would help alot of if they hit on every swing and composure is really limited, more of a convienience than a boost.
BLM - Retrace? A given since WoTG came out. couldn't hurt to extend the duration of manafont or an Aspir 2 spell. BLM is hurt as far as parties goes except BLM burns but still does fairly well soloing pets.
PLD - Many adjustments but could use a voking JA.
DRK - Dread Spikes, Drain 2, Absorb acc, all decent but still lacks majorly in the defense department without /SAM or /NIN. (not a favorite job because of this so not much input)
BST - Many adjustments but could benefit from more jugs since a ton of new beasts mobs came out since the last adjustment.
BRD - Pianissimo - someone suggested a JA that made single target songs an AoE, that's a good idea.
RNG - V. Shot and Unlimited shot I think are the newest updates but that was a while ago. helps slightly but was the least SE could do after they nerfed it. This job might be due for an update as well. RNG is still one of the best DDs so I don't know what else to give it without overpowering it.
SAM - Done - Any more and its way overpowered.
NIN - Monomi? Should have been given in the first place since you it was given invis from the start. Is lacking attack a bit but nothing I can think of that can really boost that. Jubaku Ni is a good suggestion.
DRG - The new 2hr and call wyvern being reduced helped this job alot and I don't think Angons were in the original plans for DRG. The defense from the circle might be the last adjustment for this.
SMN - Elemental Siphon helped a lot and the latest update but the introduction of level sync hurt this job massively. Something new is needed here to give SMN a great advantage either in the soloing or party department. A new light avatar would be nice since there are 2 dark avatars and the rat is overall weak. Getting from 0-70 is a extremely slow unless you low level SMN burn the whole way.
BLU - Gets new spells often, not much else can be offered that I can think of. Maybe a JA but I'm drawing a blank.
COR - Decent as is
PUP - Gets the shaft all the way around, gear, skills, performance. Give it an "A" skill or a guarding JA so this isn't the last job picked for everything.
DNC and SCH are fairly new and seem to be decent other than SCHs 2hr, but I haven't played around with it much so I might be wrong.

Overall I would say BLM, NIN, SMN, and PUP are the ones that really need adjustments, SMN has gotten updates recently but it isn't enough to put this job on par with the others until 70+; and I know PUP is a solo job but compared to BST and DRG (I soloed DRG) I would say it lacks.... something. Mostly an "A+" in H2H. Already spoke on BLM and NIN. Both are really strong but Aht Urhgan makes them seem weak compared to others.

BLM: that +matk/-macc idea was Gold, 5 minute recast would be perfect. Hell even add it to the Tier 2 merit list. Adding higher Conserve MP tiers or increasing proc rate would be great also.

MNK: I've seen people post about Monk, Monk needs nothing. It's already well balanced. Having said that, giving us the ability to -GA our Chakra ability would be nice. Not necessary, but nice.

SAM: Defense+ traits, or add +Defense to Seigan just like Hasso gets +STR. I'd also like to see higher archery and polearm caps; SAM is the WAR of Eastern jobs, and I'd like to see it get the same Weapon versatility that WAR and DRK get. Let us at least quest Empyreal!

SMN: Light avatar. That's all, an offensive based Light avatar. Maybe even change the Rage/Ward thing, so you can pick and choose which two you use: IE two rages or two wards, or one rage/ward per minute.

NIN: ... This is the job that, like Monk, hasn't seen a viable update since 2005, but never really -needed- it either. If SE plans to let us tank more (they mentioned in an interview a couple years back that they were happy with the population base using it as one) then give us a hate inducing job ability, or an enmity based Ninjutsu spell. And while I agree Utsu:San would break things, if it were introduced I could only see it working if it had a 60 second recast and didn't over write anything (with 4 shadows) or had a 15 second recast and was only one shadow, and still didn't overwrite anything. Cast time would be equivalent Ni spells.

THF: Higher marksmanship skill, a few decent armor choices while leveling for the hand slot (Battle Bracers = Jaridah = Battle Gloves, and Fencing Bracers are an item not seen very often). I'd also like to see a DW2/3 trait on them, but THF/NIN with higher marksmanship is still potent.

WAR: Doesn't need anything. Wanna tank? Go WAR/SAM with Seigan and use defender, or WAR/NIN and rely on your shadows. WAR is already the most versatile job, and HNM's aren't meant to be tanked solely by melee.

WHM: Also doesn't need anything. If SE wanted white mages to nuke they'd give you a matk bonus trait. Banish is a spell used to help other melee do their job better. Having said that, for the spell cost, Holy should be much more potent.

RDM: You're kidding right? Doing anything else to this job makes it even more broken. You can already get a latent 5 mp a TICK refresh just from gear and your 40 mp spell, and that's without a subjob.. Do yourselves a favor and deal with the fact that, while it MIGHT take you 40 minutes to solo something, at least you can do it.

PLD: I agree with the provoke like job ability idea, but I've seen PLD/RDM's in xp that did a great job tanking without provoke, and just spammed spells. Try it, you might like it.

DRG: You need nothing either. Fortunately, unlike previous "please ungimp me" threads, I haven't seen any lolDRG comments yet.

RNG: Also needs nothing. Like to see? Maybe stronger WS's with Xbow so that THF's gimped marksmanship isn't relied on to land Acid bolts, but otherwise I think they're fine.

BRD: reverse Pianissimo should have been a given in my opinion. -ga type Etudes, obviously slightly gimped, would be useful.

DRK: You guys are doing just fine. You're not supposed to have WS frequency like SAM; having said that, with /SAM and absorb TP you guys are still outparsing us (assuming similar gear levels and merits). Stop whining please, and ask for something useful, like a +matk trait or some good dark based attack spells. I think someone mentioned this before and it's a great idea.

BST: You almost never hear Beastmasters whining too much, except when they nerfed them via the mpk patch. Want my opinion? Bring back the ability to mpk via BST. This game would be alot more fun if people would stop messing with BST's because they were afraid of them as much as they should be.

BLU/PUP/COR/DNC/SCH: Dunno. BLU already gets a huge versatility, and the new patch is going to give them more spells. Everyone always lol's PUP's... all the way up until they pt with them. COR is fine as is imo, they're BRD-esque in their buffs and can melee much better; DNC is a very desired job at all levels except HNM in my experience, and I'd like to see them be fore versatile via HNM fights. SCH? People might hate me for saying this, but you gotta gimp their spells a little, or make their DoT more powerful. I think if anything they need more MACC, and less MATK, just so ***sticks better.

Bottom line? Everyone wants everything, but SE made these jobs different so they WEREN'T overpowered; no one job can be said to be "the best" (except RDM, I'm sorry but you guys still have every tool at your disposal and STILL you whine). I'd say learn to play your jobs with a little more fervor and maybe you'll be a little happier with it.

"A"-skill will never happen. PUP is NOT a MNK and ppl that still believe a PUP does not enough damage are mostly too blind to get that at least 60% of the damage comes from the pet and not from the master. Besides stop focusing on the player on pup, it makes no sense on a petjob (not in an offense way). The problem on PUP is definetly not the damage, because it is more than good if you have ever played with PUP not wearing STR-rings and his full AF nonstop, it is the survivability of the automaton.

PUPs need JA's, attachements or increased stats for the automaton ( ~200-280 defense at 75 is a joke). Look at BST-pets, they can take shitloads of damage, look at summoners, they just resummon their pet with full hp with minimum delay on recast, gdi even DRGs have an ability to instantheal their wyverns. And now guess what PUP gets? A shitty regen-ability and a merit JA to swap HP with the automaton, which comes far too late at level 75 (merit).

I once already said it but PUP needs more defensive abilities. It doesnt need more melee-stuff like better skill or whatnot, since in endgame your nuking, not meleeing most of the time. Instead PUP just needs some nice tools to keep their automatons alive RELIABLY, so we dont have to hold back on mobs because we always need to fear our automatons get crushed in 2 hits.

Thats all /bow.

I agree with most of what you said but I still think having an "A" skill will help your automaton stay alive decently; and a trait like shield master but for guarding. They won't give the automaton anything that a normal job doesn't have. They have stoneskin, flash, provoke, a convert attachment. Making it where the player can actually hold hate without having the automaton spam cure spells on him would help loads. DNC is the only other front line job that doesn't get an A skill in combat but as a support job it's sort of expected, it gets a ton of useful JAs to make up for it. A "C" skill as your main weapon is horrible. That's like BST using a club to instead of an Axe or a Scythe. BST is mostly relying on his pet to do most of the damage but it still is able do a decent amount of damage to keep up with its pet. Then again if they made it to where to player can actually keep hate they would need to give it more options in gear since PUPs mostly get to wear mage armor. Moving H2H up to a B+ skill wouldn't be too much to ask, so it doesn't overshadow MNK.

im still on the emo se babyed sch. Any blms tryin to lv whitegate areas, id be glad to ync down and play with the rats with you =)

An A H2H skill on PUP would be overpowered. The focus is 40/60 Master/Auto, maybe 30/70. To balance that, they made sure the auto couldn't handle heaps of damage. That's where the master comes in, but SE couldn't make it too easy to hold hate. B skill is pushing it, though I wouldn't mind. Don't forget after Eva traits we essentially have an A in Evasion.

I've heard various theories on PUP's armor pre-75, but the best one was this: consider that your auto can wear every piece of "armor" (attachments) it will ever get right from the start. Can you imagine a combat-geared master with a fully loaded auto in the lower and mid levels?

as a whm and a pld this guy has a really goof point. deal with what you got, refreash is not nessasary.

I think SE should just drop PUP altogether. What a worthless job.

But but it's...fun? hehe?

pup isnt really a worthless job. they may not be that great in a party but they can solo just about everything that a rdm can and more (such as diabolos). and i really doubt SE would "drop" a job altogether...

I've actually never tried that >.> I've solo'ed DC-EM at 70 well and the occasional T

I will agree though that RDM does NOT need anymore updates (and I'm a RDM too!)

As BST I would be happy with some new jug pets and not ***that'll cost an arm and a leg either. Scorpions, Ladybugs, and Coeurls would be a nice change of pace from the CC and Funguars.

I'll have to agree with this. However I do wish SE would let PUPs wear gi gear (Considering they can use the Usukane gear) or at least make multiple level JSE that'll either enhance them or the puppet.

Give the job that is the best at a certain skill (combat magic) A+ in it instead of keeping some at B or A- at best.

Lol,I love oldschool ppl having only the traditional jobs leveled like RDM, SAM or NIN and think everything beyond that is just a mix of them. Since you dont have PUP 75, everything further you say is just fail, because your arguments would just be based on rumors you heard from others and not from personal experience.

Ppl like you just see the pure damage or magic (besides we have both) but have no idea what other jobs beyond those oldschool jobs can do. Besides pre-60 PUP can outDD a SAM easily and in endgame we have a lot of nuking power with the recently added MAB-pieces for pets. I'm one of the few ppl who actually took PUP to endgame, including HNMs, sky (if you still consider that endgame), dynamis, ToAU-stuff etc. etc., so i can tell.
You dont seem to see the mechanics anyway, an automaton can outDD a SAM on Kirin just with stupidly meleeing + WSing and I'm only talking about the automaton here, excluding the master.

Tbh sure it works with the basic jobs, but ur making your life harder than it could be, which is just dumb, because your wasting potential. Same goes for DNC. Ppl that think Dancer is useless in endgame never experienced a lvl 5 Stutter Step on Kirin, period. It was obvious on SCH, because of all the -ga buffs it can do, but gdi use your brain. Good players know ALL jobs and therefore know what to expect from them.

At all, im glad ppl STILL think PUP or DNC are weak or whatever, SE will notice it and gives us even a bigger update (SE are you listening? XD). Thanks~

THIS!!!!

I agree with most of what you said in your post but i just wanted to comment on this little part!
First of all, PLD used to straight tank almost everything in "oldschool" days. They didn't even use /nin, it was all PLD/WAR until they reworked the damage formula to the point that VIT and DEF are useless in the face of things like Kirin. They also gimped the whole defender/rampart thing. So NIN was not the endgame tank back then, everything was still PLD/WAR.

Also note that SAM was easily one of the worst DD's in the game for the longest time. /THF wasnt as much for dropping hate on a tank back then as it was for the accuracy bonus. It was one of the very few ways for jobs like SAM and DRK to land WS hits. The only time it was any good before Hasso/Saigan & zanshin were released and the 2-handed weapon update came around was back when you could spam Penta Thrust. You got 60 something TP back after using the WS, so you could WS again almost right afterwards (Only got that much TP if you landed every hit, and SAM did NOT land WS hits often). Even then, DRG was better damage with it because it could land more hits reliably. SAMs were lucky to hit 40% of their WS's in the past. Nobody liked SAM or DRK much because of this. It was luck when their WS's didn't miss. So the whole "Endgame players only like SAM NIN and RDM" thing is kinda off.

I do however agree that the new-age player base is narrow-minded. It's not the old school players keeping it that way though, we adapted to everything. It's the newer players who learn from us and then see the method they learned as being the ONLY one. As a 75 DNC enthusiast i really wish these people would learn to accept the usability of newer jobs, but simply put, they learned poorly from the last generation of players.

I'm absolutely lost as to how you can say all those jobs are fine as they are AND then say SAM need's an update? This is so damn silly i actually laughed. Oh and SMN has a light based avatar, it sucks ya but doesn't change fact that Carbuncle is it.

I will give you props on the BST. I 100% agree with undoing the MPK update. Bring back the good ole days of Bst MPK'ing mpk'ers mpk'ing RMT..

I see your points and I agree. I can't tell about the very "old-days" of FFXI, because i came to the game ~4 years ago, when RotZ and CoP were already out. Tbh and to mention that, I dont have anything against oldschool ppl, I have something against the "I dont want something new because my old stuff works for me"-attitude, because (as I already said) you're making your life harder than it could be. Tho, what you have said makes all sense to me and thanks for pointing it out.

Back to the topic:
Summoner might get their avatar soon("[...] their avatar is just around the corner[...]"). Tbh it CAN be a light-based avatar. Summoner already got Diabolos and Fenrir, who are both dark-based aswell. Most ppl think it is Ixion, what makes sense in some way when you see the suicide-Ixion in campaign. Some tho believe it is phoenix as the second light-based avatar, who was in tenzens sword in the present. Against all speculations.. it will be Doomtrain ;P

Time is running out. I hope SE planned in a last surprising announcement on Monday, else and excluding the mini-expansion, i find this update rather decent.

Ok here it is: Job's that need updating.

None. Yup, none.

-It's not the jobs that need updates but the weapon choices, armor, skills, mobs, zones, events, and in general FFXI.-

My point: The solution is not the adjusting, tweaking, and re-tweaking of jobs to fit the ever changing ffxi player base, BUT i would like to see them re-tool the game in whole. Instead of adding new content to keep us entertained, i say they should give all those long forgotten conquest and cop zones an overhaul, a long over-due makeover.
Do you remember when sky was a challenge, actually trying to kill AV, doing quests just to do quests, mpk'ing or being mpk'd, or just doing some good ole fashioned Ballista with friends? I miss the old Conquest zones, getting xp post 50 in many different camps, using skill to get good xp instead of just mindlessly ws'ing for hours.

How about instead of trying to balance/improve the game by making jobs stronger, and stronger, then nerfing, then stronger, I suggest its the rest of the content that needs the update.

In closing wouldn't it be amazing to have more then 3 merit camps and 1 main merit mob? I would be thrilled.

Yea i kinda agree on the nostalgia fix. It would be nice to see things turn out more the way they were in the old days... Like back when every GOOD pt had a BLM to MB the sc's. BLM was what the BRD is these days... Necessary for the optimum setup. Cuz lets face it, back then melee didn't do impressive damage at all. Two handed weapons were pretty much not used, and one handed weapons didn't overwhelm the defense/vit of your target well enough to be effective til after the formula changes. All your main damage came from your SC followed by a MB. It was the only fast way to do things. Think they could really bring this style of play back easily though... Make some new mobs that are somewhat melee resistant, but take extra magic damage and give bonus exp like, say, imps do. Then at least BLM's could get some groups in newer areas... Even though they'd probably be SAM SAM BLM BLM RDM BRD groups only lol.

Ok this doesn't exactly fit under "jobs" but more something needing an update.

Well heres an idea. Lose a % of EXP from a kill for every Enhancing Attribute/Buff (ie. brd and cor buffs) you have on during the fight. To put it more simply having 2 brd songs and 2 cor rolls is more potent in merit then if you didnt have them but were Lvl76. If you were Lvl 76 you would receive a reduction in XP for being a higher skill/lvl to the mob. For an example @75 with no cor or brd boosts the fight is more difficult and you receive full xp. But with those Cor and Brd buffs you now are killing as if you were a higher level and in such xp is reduced by a % determined by certain songs/rolls. But this would likely kill Cors and Brds to point of not getting pt's. Well i've thought of that, just make it so this xp reduction only applies to chain#6 and above.

Now before you go crapping on this idea just think of the current merit situation. I would dare say more then 50% of players won't merit unless they have a Brd/Cor or both.

~~~OR i guess they could implement a Bonus to xp for pts that had a ballanced setup. ie, X1Tank, X1Def Mage, X1Off Mage, X1Heavy DD, X1Dot DD, and X1Support mage/DD (support mage or DD)

hmmmm food for thought SE.

Nice thought. I miss the old days with a solid setup, where you had to organize skillchains and magic bursts to be effective. I dont see that today AT ALL. Todays parties bores the ***out of me, because it is the simple bursting of TP without teamwork and paying attention (from the meleeside of life). Where is the challenge?

The only way to make SC- or MB-ing worthwhile again is to make the mobs harder or increase the damage/lessen the resist rate.

Side Note: I always wondered why BLM never had a neutral-magic-nuke, without the relation to an element. Just a thought.

You been trolled bro.

Moved here...