The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2025-04-17 16:13:25
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Now in the case of a boss that you are kiting that is 100% never going to hit you back so there is zero reason to wear any defense, well for sure max out your dps if that is the specific case or something similar.

You know we thought this too, but packet / lag BS happens and we've had bosses drop random TP moves occasionally, especially F.
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By Veydal1 2025-04-17 16:24:54
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Veydal1 said: »
I'm speaking in the context of an established, familiar, group that knows how to deal with these fights. That's the whole point of min / maxing. It's not for everyone, as some might just care about the clear, specifics or details don't matter. For others it's part of the fun. I personally enjoy getting to learn fights so that I can say "hey, there's no danger here, I'm gonna push it and try a more offensive set."

There are multiple people in this threat who consistently do 9 boss HM + arum chest + H bonus chest providing you with information. The developers who program the combat formulas and set the stats on enemies do so under the assumption everyone involved is wearing 50% DT + newer iLevel sets. There is zero skill, cool poses or screaming out move names that will effect that.

Now you can choose to ignore that and continue doing whatever it is you are doing, that is your prerogative.

Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.

People are clearing 8/8, 9/9, etc., not using maxed out DT / MEVA sets. And there are people clearing 8/8, 9/9, etc. using maxed out DT / MEVA sets. I provided the context of my previous statement. Hopefully I've gotten my point across.

People clear content with all sorts of different conditions, job comps, buffs, gear, etc. I was not trying to be controversial in any way by pointing out that there are absolutely instances where there's room to lower your DT / MEVA thresholds for gear in favor of additional damage output, but I seem to have hit a nerve for some which wasn't my intention. It's my genuine, successful, experience. I'm not saying it's the only way to do things. But I felt inclined to bring it up as (clearly) shown above, that speaking of sets with less than -50% DT / high MEVA is blasphemy to some. I'm not adverse to it at all, just pointing out that it's not always necessary considering certain circumstances.

Who knows, maybe if they ran 0 DT and maximum DPS, they'd get an extra chest with those extra 5 seconds lol :P
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By Dodik 2025-04-17 16:25:09
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Fetters also sometimes spawn on the group.
 Asura.Bronzequadav
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By Asura.Bronzequadav 2025-04-17 16:31:19
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If it's not V20-25 Ody fights then wear whatever, Cant remember the last time I got enfeebled out of a fight or died in sortie/ambu/SheolC using a mix of sakpata, emp+3/af+3 let alone odin helm (which I dont use anymore but never had issues when I did)

As long as it isn't escha/unity(for the most part) era gear you're probably perfectly fine defensively outside of specific fights.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2025-04-17 16:34:06
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Veydal1 said: »
Not to derail too much, but I've actually found face tanking F/H to not be too bad at all in a x2 DD setup. Admittedly, we only recently started doing it (less than 5 runs), but WAR + DNC as the two DDs + solid contributions from RDM COR BRD really makes all of the NMs drop fast enough that when the fetters are coming out, it's almost dead (assuming they're being proc'd appropriately). Again, this is assuming high damage output. Healer never under any strain and I'm the one tanking on WAR.

For F it's not fetters its Choke Hold dispels or Zap spam stuns. Dispelling your songs and rolls is very bad, and being stun locked half the fight is equally bad. Barthundra can help mitigate the stun and Baraero does help with the dispels, but some are going to get through and losing a march or Samurai's roll is just obnoxious. H is just a troll with Icy Grasp, Eroding Flesh and Flashflood. You can't avoid some of those status effects because they are tied to the mechanic but MEVA does help reduce the ones you can.

As others have mentioned usually when there is a dead player on the ground, they have a certain thing in common.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-04-17 16:41:58
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Veydal1 said: »
"Why not just stack DT / MEVA, killing a little faster isn't a big deal"

and

"Why bother with stacking unnecessary DT / MEVA, you're never in any danger of dying."

The context of this discussion matters

We started talking about this when Timepassesbye posted a set with Odin body and relic+3 legs. Some of the responses were to the effect of "i just use sakpataka/empy+3". The response to those comments to explain reasoning were something like:

Sylph.Timepassesbye said: »
yes, you lose 1 DA and 7 pdl when compared to sakpata, but I'm already DA capped and 11% more damage on each auto attack is 11% more damage.

At this point he was talking about a Naegling set because he later said:

Sylph.Timepassesbye said: »
i just so happened to talk specifically about a white damage set for naegling.

The argument was that the small "bonus" in white damage is inconsequential because it's a meaningless stat pad that doesn't do anything besides virtually drive up the numbers. I use bonus in quotes because your white damage with Naegling is in the same realm as your white damage as NIN; it's just noise in the way of you getting enough TP to fire off Savage Blade. It does not contribute to the faster kill in any way, so what difference does it make to use a "higher dps piece" anyways? The same applies to Odin body with higher critical hit rate.

This is honestly a philosophical difference between what "matters". "MEVA/DT doesn't matter when I don't need it, so why bother" but "that extra 45-100 damage per swing doesn't matter either, so what's the difference"? Same ***really, just personal preference.
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By Dodik 2025-04-17 16:53:42
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I mean it's not same ***, one is clearly superior and the other just wrong.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-04-17 17:04:59
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I was trying to be nice but you came out spraying
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2025-04-17 17:06:43
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tallica said: »
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I haven't found any real use for relic legs in any of my sets tbqh.

I'll be the Agoge Cuisses +3 defender here. I can still hit PDT-50% (DT-40%) and DA+101% without using a different leg armor with a set like the below, leaving the major differences as Sakpata's Meva+50/PDL+7% versus Agoge+3's DA dmg+11%.
What am I missing? That's not double attack 101, is it?

Uhhhhh nope, it's 91. Good catch, numbers hard, sorry bout that!

33: Trait/gifts/merits
3: Coiste Bodhar
5: Sakpata Helm
7: JSE+2 neck (augment, not shown on the base stats)
8: JSE+1 ear
6: Sakpata hands
10: JSE cape
9: Ioskeha+1
6: Relic+3 legs
4: Sakpata feet
---
91

Could do something like swap Empy body for Sakpata (DA+8) to hit DA+99 (or 100 if you're lucky enough to have a +2 earring!). Perhaps not an ideal swap to give up the STP and GA skill on Empy+3, but maybe viable (and does get you 30 more Meva). Pretty sure I was working from a set that probably did have Sakpata body in there from back before Empy+2/+3 gear came out.

But overall, yeah, probably most significant use would be to pair with Empy aftermath and pump up those substantial white damage hits - even in a buid that doesn't hit 100% DA (working on more than 90% of your attack rounds is still strong). I agree with Buukki that it's just unimportant noise if we're talking about something like Naegling though.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-04-17 17:09:59
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
33: Trait/gifts/merits
3: Coiste Bodhar
5: Sakpata Helm
7: JSE+2 neck (augment, not shown on the base stats)
8: JSE+1 ear
6: Sakpata hands
10: JSE cape
9: Ioskeha+1
6: Relic+3 legs
4: Sakpata feet
---
91

It's 97% with Schere Earring (still not 101)
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By Veydal1 2025-04-17 17:30:22
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Why is it superior? Why is it wrong to lower your defenses when there's no danger? Because of 'what if's" that never happen in any realistic scenario?

"What if my healer dc's"
"What if the target all of a sudden does 10x dmg because of a ninja update"

Come on...
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By Dodik 2025-04-17 17:42:38
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2025-04-17 22:40:54
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
It's 97% with Schere Earring (still not 101)

Thank you. Holy ***my counting is so bad XD

And in that case yeah, could also swap AF+3 feet in for Sakpata and hit 100+ DA. Which, yes, is certainly a less defensive build, but I still use em sometimes and don't die.

Or, just do your DA dmg+ build with "only" DA+97.
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By Zeofromgeo 2025-04-18 01:10:18
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Dodik said: »
Mine is 4/5 Sakpata and Empy body, rest the same.

Same here.
Pondered over a cpl slots, but nothing decisive that took over from 4/5 Sakpata.

However, it's good that there are options. Nice one SE
 Asura.Reidden
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By Asura.Reidden 2025-04-18 10:22:39
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
tallica said: »
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I haven't found any real use for relic legs in any of my sets tbqh.

I'll be the Agoge Cuisses +3 defender here. I can still hit PDT-50% (DT-40%) and DA+101% without using a different leg armor with a set like the below, leaving the major differences as Sakpata's Meva+50/PDL+7% versus Agoge+3's DA dmg+11%.
What am I missing? That's not double attack 101, is it?

Uhhhhh nope, it's 91. Good catch, numbers hard, sorry bout that!

33: Trait/gifts/merits
3: Coiste Bodhar
5: Sakpata Helm
7: JSE+2 neck (augment, not shown on the base stats)
8: JSE+1 ear
6: Sakpata hands
10: JSE cape
9: Ioskeha+1
6: Relic+3 legs
4: Sakpata feet
---
91

Could do something like swap Empy body for Sakpata (DA+8) to hit DA+99 (or 100 if you're lucky enough to have a +2 earring!). Perhaps not an ideal swap to give up the STP and GA skill on Empy+3, but maybe viable (and does get you 30 more Meva). Pretty sure I was working from a set that probably did have Sakpata body in there from back before Empy+2/+3 gear came out.

But overall, yeah, probably most significant use would be to pair with Empy aftermath and pump up those substantial white damage hits - even in a buid that doesn't hit 100% DA (working on more than 90% of your attack rounds is still strong). I agree with Buukki that it's just unimportant noise if we're talking about something like Naegling though.

Oh damn, I just noticed I use that same set. I need to go recount my DA.
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By Dodik 2025-04-18 12:03:32
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*taps the clearly superior sign*
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By Bismarck.Ekcoforce 2025-04-18 13:31:48
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This guide looks quite outdated, where should I look for the most recent gearsets and set ups etc?
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2025-04-18 15:36:11
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Bismarck.Ekcoforce said: »
This guide looks quite outdated, where should I look for the most recent gearsets and set ups etc?

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/All_Jobs_Gear_Sets/Warrior

The All Jobs Simulator thread is pretty good as a baseline.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2025-07-01 20:03:07
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Asking for someone else. Is Ukon still good for segment farming? And also, does it see any use elsewhere? Thanks.
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By Nariont 2025-07-02 01:35:22
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It's still nice for segments, outside of that however its kind of a wash compared to other options, like gaol fencer builds are more preferred since there's no /sam to provide job haste and sortie relies more on getting WS' out quickly rather than the white dmg aspect ukon provides.

Could be nice for limbus maybe just blowing through trash mobs but donno how much that counts for as it currently sits
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By Lili 2025-07-02 07:28:06
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Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Asking for someone else. Is Ukon still good for segment farming? And also, does it see any use elsewhere? Thanks.

It's good, tho you need to gear a bit specifically for AM3 and you need to understand how to leverage it, and how to work around WS delay, JA delay, etc etc - missing an AM3 swing hurts a lot.

That said, it's a fair bit more work than Naegling, and you end up doing same killspeed overall, so it's a bit of a wash.
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 Phoenix.Rizzspeed
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By Phoenix.Rizzspeed 2025-07-02 08:41:27
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Empy weapons tend to shine nicely in the Qutrub Ambuscade, whenever that comes around. With AM3 and a crit build, it does tremendous dmg.
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2025-07-02 09:34:49
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Honestly I feel like Farsha would be worth using over Ukkon at this point. Many Great Axe weaponskills are pretty bad unless you hold until you have 2000+ TP. 5/5 Upheaval merits needed for full damage potential.

Thoughts? It's on my list of stuff to make.

You are still getting AM3 white damage, and the WS to trigger it actually scales with TP.

Mistral Axe is very fun to use. Especially when you pull with it or can start the fight at a distance.

Calamity is also an solid choice at the cost of skillchains compatibility.

Pros
-Less Delay
-99% Hit Rate Cap
-Easier to cap PDL (If I recall)
-Trigger WS: Damage Varies with TP. Also opens light SC for Mistral Axe.
-Trigger WS never misses, only resists.
-Pairs well with fencer or dual wield.
-Nice variety of weaponskills for skill chains and damage.
-Mistral and Bora Axe are ranged attacks. (Kinda, sorta. Still miss on PD)

Cons:
-Needs haste samba to reach full delay reduction with fencer.
-Trigger WS is magical. Melee buffs won't boost its damage.
-It isn't a big *** hammer.
-AM3 hits won't spike nearly as high as Ukon.
-Attributes are split, even worse with the augmented attributes.
-Lacks Utility and Debuffing weaponskills.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-07-02 10:38:27
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Phoenix.Rizzspeed said: »
Empy weapons tend to shine nicely in the Qutrub Ambuscade, whenever that comes around. With AM3 and a crit build, it does tremendous dmg.

There's a few other fights, like the Moogle Ambuscade where he has Amnesia aura and you can't ws for about a full minute. They're also just fun change-of-pace weapons you can pull out anytime when you want to change your playstyle a bit. For sure, Naegling/Chango/Shining One is your brute force DPS or whatever, but I like the style of holding TP longer and seeing massive AM3 crits, then firing off near-max TP Upheavals when I run Ukon. It's very satisfying. Is it going to beat out Naegling? No, but the reality is, im still chopping off something's head and it dies eventually, so seeing those white hit big numbers is just as cool to me (even cooler) than seeing those high damage Savage Blades.

For stuff like Segments, I still think way too many people go overboard with their party comps and trying to earn max segments/gil, and they basically shun everything that isn't war/naegling. I know somone's going to say "BUT YOU'RE GIMPING YOUR ENTIRE PARTY!!!!" if you use Ukon over Naegling. I'd bet the majority of people obsessing over that have loads of segments and gil they'll never actually spend, so it's just meaningless numbers being earned (just like overkill damage). Using Ukon in segments won't have a significant impact on your group's progress. If you're geared to the gils with Naegling, you probably have what you need to compete with Ukon, so you'll kill quickly enough to keep pace for full clear. Use it if you want, it's a great weapon IMO.

Now this is all if you already have Ukon. If you don't have one already, do not make one for segments. It will not improve your performance over other easier to obtain options.
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By Nariont 2025-07-02 11:17:24
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Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Many Great Axe weaponskills are pretty bad unless you hold until you have 2000+

That's not much different than axe tbh. Mistral, calamity, and uh, spinning axe? Are your best axe ws' and they arent exactly shiners until 2k+ as far as phys dmg goes. You have decimation but that entirely hinges on main handing a different weapon.

You covered the main reason to use gaxe over axe; need that missing job haste, if you got that then its an easy push for axe as you get +630 TP and gain TP at a similar rate to a 2 hander at the cost of no utility WS/limited good SC path options
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By SimonSes 2025-07-02 12:13:21
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Nariont said: »
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Many Great Axe weaponskills are pretty bad unless you hold until you have 2000+

That's not much different than axe tbh. Mistral, calamity, and uh, spinning axe? Are your best axe ws' and they arent exactly shiners until 2k+ as far as phys dmg goes. You have decimation but that entirely hinges on main handing a different weapon.

You covered the main reason to use gaxe over axe; need that missing job haste, if you got that then its an easy push for axe as you get +630 TP and gain TP at a similar rate to a 2 hander at the cost of no utility WS/limited good SC path options

I think his point was that with Fencer you don't hold, because you are always above 2000.

It's also not really 630TP. It's 730 with just master WAR and realistically 830, because you will always have at least +2 Fencer. Now 95% of the time it will be 860, because you will have at least +3 Fencer and then +350tp from gear, so effectively 2210TP at 1000TP.

I generally adore Ukonvasara and it has massive potential in max buffs SP zergs, marginally beating anything beside Farsha with Haste Samba support.
I even once changed moonshade for fun and was able to proc like ~50k crit. Way more fun than 99k WSs.
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By Nariont 2025-07-02 12:58:26
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SimonSes said: »
It's also not really 630TP. It's 730 with just master WAR and realistically 830, because you will always have at least +2 Fencer. Now 95% of the time it will be 860, because you will have at least +3 Fencer and then +350tp from gear, so effectively 2210TP at 1000TP.


Guess I've been misreading fencers total tp bonus for awhile then. I still think it comes down to if you have that missing 10% haste or not though and just further pushes that if you do have samba that single wield fencer is probably better
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By SimonSes 2025-07-02 15:28:51
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Nariont said: »
SimonSes said: »
It's also not really 630TP. It's 730 with just master WAR and realistically 830, because you will always have at least +2 Fencer. Now 95% of the time it will be 860, because you will have at least +3 Fencer and then +350tp from gear, so effectively 2210TP at 1000TP.


Guess I've been misreading fencers total tp bonus for awhile then. I still think it comes down to if you have that missing 10% haste or not though and just further pushes that if you do have samba that single wield fencer is probably better

I also think Haste Samba is crucial. Funny enough I was playing with perfect zerg scenario not so long ago and Farsha is not including self SC scenario the strongest WAR option by pretty solid margin, but as soon as you take away Hasta Samba, it falls behind by even bigger margin. Ukonvasara was 2nd best, but it's lead over Primes was marginal.
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By Lili 2025-07-02 17:45:45
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(The best way to use Mistral Axe, btw, is to keep TPing on the same mob and snipe other mobs from afar. In OdyC you should be able to oneshot floors 1 and 2 easily, and higher floors with some effort in making the sets/high nyame and aria.)
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