The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Carbuncle.Spasm
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By Carbuncle.Spasm 2025-04-16 13:10:17
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Seeing most sets with ML30 minimum so i'll work on that first before testing/changing anything. Regardless thanks, i'll mess with it all but I have a starting point now.
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By Dodik 2025-04-16 15:18:36
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
It's more than dt and STP. It's meva, defense, and evasion too.

Yes.

Sakpata 4/5 and Empy body: 644 MEVA, 37 MDB

2/5 sakpata, relic, af and odin body set is: 504 MEVA, 32 MDB.

140 MEVA drop, 5 MDB. A lot of defense.

A single debuff landing is a bigger dps drop than any potential dps you'd get. And arguable there is a conceivable difference.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2025-04-16 18:40:07
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I haven't found any real use for relic legs in any of my sets tbqh.

I'll be the Agoge Cuisses +3 defender here. I can still hit PDT-50% (DT-40%) and DA+101% without using a different leg armor with a set like the below, leaving the major differences as Sakpata's Meva+50/PDL+7% versus Agoge+3's DA dmg+11%.
ItemSet 399114

While I do also use a set with 4/5 Sakpata + Empy body if there's a reason to need that extra Meva (and maybe sufficient buffs/target to allow me take advantage of the PDL on Sakpata, which is not a given), sometimes I just don't need that extra Meva. Maybe I'm fighting mobs that don't use especially deadly enfeebles that could be avoided (or I know I'm with a healer, including a trust like Monberaux, who will remove a debuff quickly), or maybe the mobs just don't have highly dangerous magical attacks where I could use Meva to resist potentially deadly incoming damage.

In that case, at least when using a strong 2h weapon (i.e., I'm not breaking out any white damage sets for a Naegling), why not get some more white damage from the DA dmg+? Especially nice to stack with Ukon aftermath (tbh I'd be super reluctant to give it up with Empy AM up), but it's even good with a decently strong 2h weapon like a Chango.

Really nice white damage boost from pairing DA dmg+ legs (11%) with JSE back (20%) and Sakpata Helm (up to 15%, and since it's the second augment slot you don't need r30 to make it a meaningful amount).
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 Asura.Vyre
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By Asura.Vyre 2025-04-16 21:03:08
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Have there been any thoughts on using Fickblix's Ring to do stuff with like full Empy +3 shenanigans?

I know people like to stress on that datk damage %+ from Relic Legs/Sakpata head. Obviously could still incorporate those, would just have to use like Gyudon (+1).

Just noticed it was possible since I finally made a datk cape.

ItemSet 399116

If you were to put 10% PDT on cape, it sits at 45%(35% DT) which you can move up to 50%(40%) by putting a Moonlight Ring in instead of Niqmaddu's.

Set's at 1426 accuracy and can technically meme Moonshade in place of Schere if you use Gyudon +1.
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By Sylph.Timepassesbye 2025-04-17 06:37:22
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I haven't found any real use for relic legs in any of my sets tbqh.

I'll be the Agoge Cuisses +3 defender here. I can still hit PDT-50% (DT-40%) and DA+101% without using a different leg armor with a set like the below, leaving the major differences as Sakpata's Meva+50/PDL+7% versus Agoge+3's DA dmg+11%.
ItemSet 399114

While I do also use a set with 4/5 Sakpata + Empy body if there's a reason to need that extra Meva (and maybe sufficient buffs/target to allow me take advantage of the PDL on Sakpata, which is not a given), sometimes I just don't need that extra Meva. Maybe I'm fighting mobs that don't use especially deadly enfeebles that could be avoided (or I know I'm with a healer, including a trust like Monberaux, who will remove a debuff quickly), or maybe the mobs just don't have highly dangerous magical attacks where I could use Meva to resist potentially deadly incoming damage.

In that case, at least when using a strong 2h weapon (i.e., I'm not breaking out any white damage sets for a Naegling), why not get some more white damage from the DA dmg+? Especially nice to stack with Ukon aftermath (tbh I'd be super reluctant to give it up with Empy AM up), but it's even good with a decently strong 2h weapon like a Chango.

Really nice white damage boost from pairing DA dmg+ legs (11%) with JSE back (20%) and Sakpata Helm (up to 15%, and since it's the second augment slot you don't need r30 to make it a meaningful amount).


Thanks for saying this. This is exactly why I said "general purpose set," not "end game high meva set"

no one does exclusively end game content, and things like oddy seg farm doesn't usually require a ton of meva, so I get more mileage out of a set that has slightly less considering it's not being utilized.

Any warrior who considered themself worth their salt should have at the bare minimum, a full DD and a full DT set. branching off to a full eva, full hp, full meva, full crit, etc. i just so happened to talk specifically about a white damage set for naegling.
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By Dodik 2025-04-17 08:19:11
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Flipside is that any content that does not need a high end meva/defense set is also content where wearing a fully dd focused set makes little difference what so ever.

Saving 2 sec off a UNM kill is, to me, not worth the lost inventory space.

IMO any set that you can't take a few hits in and keep going is a worthless set. That includes things like ody c seg farms.
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 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2025-04-17 08:24:23
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Dodik said: »
Flipside is that any content that does not need a high end meva/defense set is also content where wearing a fully dd focused set makes little difference what so ever.

Saving 2 sec off a UNM kill is, to me, not worth the lost inventory space.

Largely agree with this, but I do want to point out that a lot of people enjoy min-maxing and collecting as part of the game. It's not practical in the sense that getting the gear will ever save more time than it took, but it is still part of the game for many people. Perfectly reasonable to make a low m.eva set with higher dps.

I would still consider "general purpose set" and "end game high meva set" to be the same thing. Your general set should be the high m.eva one; it offers the most benefit to the most situations.
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 Asura.Reidden
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By Asura.Reidden 2025-04-17 11:01:16
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Do not forget the most important set of all timeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, which is Idle Regen set.
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By K123 2025-04-17 11:08:15
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Shiva.Thorny said: »
Dodik said: »
Flipside is that any content that does not need a high end meva/defense set is also content where wearing a fully dd focused set makes little difference what so ever.

Saving 2 sec off a UNM kill is, to me, not worth the lost inventory space.

Largely agree with this, but I do want to point out that a lot of people enjoy min-maxing and collecting as part of the game. It's not practical in the sense that getting the gear will ever save more time than it took, but it is still part of the game for many people. Perfectly reasonable to make a low m.eva set with higher dps.

I would still consider "general purpose set" and "end game high meva set" to be the same thing. Your general set should be the high m.eva one; it offers the most benefit to the most situations.
This is what I do. Because I'm too lazy to make a switch in gear swap I just use alt+2 for max damage set (alt+1 is ws). This does the job for me.
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By tallica 2025-04-17 11:21:00
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I haven't found any real use for relic legs in any of my sets tbqh.

I'll be the Agoge Cuisses +3 defender here. I can still hit PDT-50% (DT-40%) and DA+101% without using a different leg armor with a set like the below, leaving the major differences as Sakpata's Meva+50/PDL+7% versus Agoge+3's DA dmg+11%.
What am I missing? That's not double attack 101, is it?
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By Dodik 2025-04-17 11:31:24
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Shiva.Thorny said: »
Your general set should be the high m.eva one; it offers the most benefit to the most situations.

Exactly. From experience, my full dd set never got any use. So it ended up being wasted inventory space.

But everytime I see a war on the floor, they're all wearing that Odin body.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-04-17 12:17:38
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Dodik said: »
But everytime I see a war on the floor, they're all wearing that Odin body.
Zantetsuken curse.
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2025-04-17 12:34:32
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Nabis would have used Odin Gear.

It's FFXI's version of a flat brimmed New York Yankees hat.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2025-04-17 12:45:05
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Shiva.Thorny said: »
Dodik said: »
Flipside is that any content that does not need a high end meva/defense set is also content where wearing a fully dd focused set makes little difference what so ever.

Saving 2 sec off a UNM kill is, to me, not worth the lost inventory space.

Largely agree with this, but I do want to point out that a lot of people enjoy min-maxing and collecting as part of the game. It's not practical in the sense that getting the gear will ever save more time than it took, but it is still part of the game for many people. Perfectly reasonable to make a low m.eva set with higher dps.

I would still consider "general purpose set" and "end game high meva set" to be the same thing. Your general set should be the high m.eva one; it offers the most benefit to the most situations.

Basically some combination of Sakpata or Empy +3 most of the time. Accessories can be rotated around but it's those items for the primary slots are very hard to beat.

Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Dodik said: »
But everytime I see a war on the floor, they're all wearing that Odin body.
Zantetsuken curse.

I've seen it too. Like people pretend they play in a game where monsters just stand there idle while they get wailed on. Debuffs exist and any marginal DPS benefit is instantly gone the moment someone gets hit with a debuff and is negative if they get murdered.
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By Dodik 2025-04-17 13:10:42
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For a job with access to Sakpata, it's super cringe when the Sam next to you doesn't get cursed or doomed but the War does.
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By Veydal1 2025-04-17 13:21:45
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Are you guys resisting debuffs in Sortie? I've been foregoing my set that includes extra MEVA and just throwing in ~30-40% DT and calling it a day. Especially with kiting strat. Completely eyeballing it, but I don't think I've ever resisted any debuffs. Are you resisting debuffs by fetters from F/H or the spires from G? What about the TP moves from H boss?

I've definitely seen resists from Odyssey bosses, so I absolutely advocate for DT + MEVA focused sets in there.
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By Asura.Reidden 2025-04-17 13:47:01
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Sh*t, i think we saw the Sam resist the tp drain move from Triboulex last night. Tried to find it in the log but battlemod ftw.
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By Asura.Vyre 2025-04-17 13:55:22
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Veydal1 said: »
Are you guys resisting debuffs in Sortie? I've been foregoing my set that includes extra MEVA and just throwing in ~30-40% DT and calling it a day. Especially with kiting strat. Completely eyeballing it, but I don't think I've ever resisted any debuffs. Are you resisting debuffs by fetters from F/H or the spires from G? What about the TP moves from H boss?

I've definitely seen resists from Odyssey bosses, so I absolutely advocate for DT + MEVA focused sets in there.
I've been able to resist most of the bad stuff that the minis do/naakuals/basement minis in some shape or form.

Most notable is like... the Cehuetzi's paralysis aura doesn't seem to paralyze me as much as it has other people.

I also resist the slow from Brownout from the bird like 80% of the time.

The amnesia thing that Botulus does, doesn't really work on me. When it does, it only lasts 4~5 seconds. Means I only miss a stun when Leg Sweep misses or if I'm slow.

And this is in my typical TP set that only sports about +549 meva (coincedentally the same as 5/5 Empy+3 even though that's not what I use(even though I really wanna)). Which you know, full Sakpata's/Malignance etc. sports +674.

Really easy to just... if you know there's a problem debuff you can resist, just macro into full meva set. 5/5 Sakpatas with Null Belt/Shawl is +754, and you can push up to brush up against +800 with additional accessories.

As far as resisting Sortie boss's gimmick debuffs? Nah, can't be done without something like Asylum or Divine Caress. They're guaranteed lands with flat durations, because they're strict gimmick mechanics.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-04-17 14:02:18
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Veydal1 said: »
I've been foregoing my set that includes extra MEVA and just throwing in ~30-40% DT and calling it a day.

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By Dodik 2025-04-17 14:05:15
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Case.. in.. point..
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By Asura.Saevel 2025-04-17 14:56:02
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Veydal1 said: »
Are you guys resisting debuffs in Sortie? I've been foregoing my set that includes extra MEVA and just throwing in ~30-40% DT and calling it a day. Especially with kiting strat. Completely eyeballing it, but I don't think I've ever resisted any debuffs. Are you resisting debuffs by fetters from F/H or the spires from G? What about the TP moves from H boss?

I've definitely seen resists from Odyssey bosses, so I absolutely advocate for DT + MEVA focused sets in there.

Ehh ....

So umm 50% damage reduction (PDT/MDT/etc) is table stakes, like you don't start until you have that. Then you add on MEva/MDB/Def/HP to further increase survivability. And yes I resist debuffs all the time...
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-04-17 15:29:34
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I think what happens is players are so used to being DPS focused from the prior era or FFXI that defensive gear subtly becomes an afterthought. They don't correlate the reason why SE gave so many absurdly high defensive options in the first place, and consider them only for "DT/Meva sets" instead of what should be understood as the base gear standard now. They gave such high defensive gear because everything hits harder and is nastier, and it should be worn all the time to protect yourself.

I imagine SE assumed players would realize this gameplay change and chuck/store their old gear (that didn't have super defensive traits) and utilize the new sets, sacrificing a little dps for survivability. What happened instead was players put the high defensive stuff into specific defensive sets and still kept their dps pieces in the main sets, and swapped to the DT/Meva sets when they "felt" danger. I still see people show up in Valorous/Herculean/Samnuha Tights/Adhemar/Flamma gear for some reason, and then they immediately die in whatever Jump set they swap into. The idea of sacrificing 10 STP for a chunk of survivability is still unheard of to some players. Cannot be helped.

For crying out loud, they released a body that gives -20% DT, a mask with -10% DT, and super high defensive stats on accessories and people responded "what set should I use this gear for"?
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By Veydal1 2025-04-17 15:33:40
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I have 0 issues surviving. I'm not talking about minis or anything other than the bosses and mechanics I listed. Maybe that's on me for not clarifying. When applicable, it's absolutely worth sporting full DT / MEVA sets, as I also mentioned.

It was mentioned what's the point of maxing DPS in situations where killing faster isn't important like Unity NMs, but what's the point in stacking max DT / MEVA when you're never at risk of dying or have the ability to resist debuffs? That is what I was asking, those specific mechanics / debuffs, to know if there's just some super high threshold, or if it's a guaranteed mechanic.

Asura.Saevel said: »
Veydal1 said: »
Are you guys resisting debuffs in Sortie? I've been foregoing my set that includes extra MEVA and just throwing in ~30-40% DT and calling it a day. Especially with kiting strat. Completely eyeballing it, but I don't think I've ever resisted any debuffs. Are you resisting debuffs by fetters from F/H or the spires from G? What about the TP moves from H boss?

I've definitely seen resists from Odyssey bosses, so I absolutely advocate for DT + MEVA focused sets in there.

Ehh ....

So umm 50% damage reduction (PDT/MDT/etc) is table stakes, like you don't start until you have that. Then you add on MEva/MDB/Def/HP to further increase survivability. And yes I resist debuffs all the time...

So you are resisting the debuffs I listed in Sortie from F / H fetters and H TP moves? Spires from G? Just want to make sure we're talking about the same debuffs.
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By Taint 2025-04-17 15:37:19
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Nothing gets resisted from Sortie bosses. The meva mdb does help damage taken a ton.
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By Asura.Saevel 2025-04-17 15:48:47
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Veydal1 said: »
So you are resisting the debuffs I listed in Sortie from F / H fetters and H TP moves? Spires from G? Just want to make sure we're talking about the same debuffs.

Depends on the move and debuff. D/H TP move status effects are unresistable but the damage can be resisted, same with fetters. C/G and B/F TP moves can be resisted, yes I've resisted the silence/dispel effect on chokehold before along with the stun effect off zap. Fetter debuffs are unresistable as they are basically geomancy bubbles, the damage OTOH can be resisted.

It's not a good idea to face tank H and F boss's, kiting works so much easier. G you want your tank and melee's standing far enough apart that the fetters don't hit them.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-04-17 15:51:07
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Veydal1 said: »
It was mentioned what's the point of maxing DPS in situations where killing faster isn't important like Unity NMs, but what's the point in stacking max DT / MEVA when you're never at risk of dying or have the ability to resist debuffs?

I think what Dodik and other were saying is that if the content does not require you to wear your standard 50 dt/meva sets because there's not a threat to you dying, then wearing gear to kill it faster* is probably just as insignificant because there is not that large of a dps gap between your best dt/meva gear and your full dd gear. Like Flamma head/feet are cool with low meva, but how far ahead are they vs sakpata/gleti's/empyrean+3 with similar dps stats and significantly higher defensive stats? It's a distinction without a difference, the extra ~5 seconds of kill speed is nothing
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By Veydal1 2025-04-17 15:54:31
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I think I should clear a few things up, because I'm doing exactly what I've complained about others doing in the past, and that's leaving out context.

I'm speaking in the context of Sortie, specifically WAR (this is a WAR thread) -

For the new people that are starting out or are working out their Sortie runs still, I absolutely 100% advocate for playing it safe and making it easy on the healer by sporting a full defensive set. When you're learning the ropes, you don't care about hitting 9/9 NMs out of the gate.

For those that are experienced and are pushing for 9/9 or 8/8 even, and have a solid group that know their roles and what they're doing, I see 0 issues with focusing on a more offensive set that gives up DT / MEVA / MDef. The reason being when you're already familiar with the content and everyone is comfortable in the setting, there is no danger of dying. If you have a supporting cast (BRD / COR / RDM) that isn't pulling their weight, then fights drag on, then it's definitely worth playing it safe.

I'm speaking in the context of an established, familiar, group that knows how to deal with these fights. That's the whole point of min / maxing. It's not for everyone, as some might just care about the clear, specifics or details don't matter. For others it's part of the fun. I personally enjoy getting to learn fights so that I can say "hey, there's no danger here, I'm gonna push it and try a more offensive set."
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-04-17 16:09:36
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If you want to mixmax that is totally fine, do your thing. I have toggles on most of my jobs for "Glass Cannon" or something similar which uses higher dps pieces in a variety of slots. The amount of times I have ever used these toggles in Sortie, though, are basically never. I just haven't personally found that those sets really do much more than many of the standard sets. Now in the case of a boss that you are kiting that is 100% never going to hit you back so there is zero reason to wear any defense, well for sure max out your dps if that is the specific case or something similar. I did something like that with Corse Ambuscade as MNK (and then immediately swapped to defensive set with skeletons came out). I do think the more modern gear has so much attack and accuracy on it already, using older gear with some *better* dps stats feels like a wash or break even.
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By Asura.Saevel 2025-04-17 16:09:55
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Veydal1 said: »
I'm speaking in the context of an established, familiar, group that knows how to deal with these fights. That's the whole point of min / maxing. It's not for everyone, as some might just care about the clear, specifics or details don't matter. For others it's part of the fun. I personally enjoy getting to learn fights so that I can say "hey, there's no danger here, I'm gonna push it and try a more offensive set."

There are multiple people in this threat who consistently do 9 boss HM + arum chest + H bonus chest providing you with information. The developers who program the combat formulas and set the stats on enemies do so under the assumption everyone involved is wearing 50% DT + newer iLevel sets. There is zero skill, cool poses or screaming out move names that will effect that.

Now you can choose to ignore that and continue doing whatever it is you are doing, that is your prerogative.
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By Veydal1 2025-04-17 16:10:38
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Veydal1 said: »
So you are resisting the debuffs I listed in Sortie from F / H fetters and H TP moves? Spires from G? Just want to make sure we're talking about the same debuffs.

Depends on the move and debuff. D/H TP move status effects are unresistable but the damage can be resisted, same with fetters. C/G and B/F TP moves can be resisted, yes I've resisted the silence/dispel effect on chokehold before along with the stun effect off zap. Fetter debuffs are unresistable as they are basically geomancy bubbles, the damage OTOH can be resisted.

It's not a good idea to face tank H and F boss's, kiting works so much easier. G you want your tank and melee's standing far enough apart that the fetters don't hit them.

This is why I clarified I'm only going off the eyeball test. I've never seen a difference between going full MEVA (~670 for me) and something with like ~480 when it came to resisting stun from B/F thunder hands. When we first started Sortie, that was a huge pain point because it dragged the fight which was no good. When kiting, there's 0 danger damage to worry about anyway though. But I've never DD'd in a kite setup as WAR, only DNC. I'll have to give it another shot with full MEVA and see if I see better results this time around.

Not to derail too much, but I've actually found face tanking F/H to not be too bad at all in a x2 DD setup. Admittedly, we only recently started doing it (less than 5 runs), but WAR + DNC as the two DDs + solid contributions from RDM COR BRD really makes all of the NMs drop fast enough that when the fetters are coming out, it's almost dead (assuming they're being proc'd appropriately). Again, this is assuming high damage output. Healer never under any strain and I'm the one tanking on WAR.

Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Veydal1 said: »
It was mentioned what's the point of maxing DPS in situations where killing faster isn't important like Unity NMs, but what's the point in stacking max DT / MEVA when you're never at risk of dying or have the ability to resist debuffs?

I think what Dodik and other were saying is that if the content does not require you to wear your standard 50 dt/meva sets because there's not a threat to you dying, then wearing gear to kill it faster* is probably just as insignificant because there is not that large of a dps gap between your best dt/meva gear and your full dd gear. Like Flamma head/feet are cool with low meva, but how far ahead are they vs sakpata/gleti's/empyrean+3 with similar dps stats and significantly higher defensive stats? It's a distinction without a difference, the extra ~5 seconds of kill speed is nothing

I don't necessarily disagree with this. Basically comes down to -
"Why not just stack DT / MEVA, killing a little faster isn't a big deal"

and

"Why bother with stacking unnecessary DT / MEVA, you're never in any danger of dying."

I absolutely concede that it's a shitty mentality to have for newer people. It's definitely detrimental to the individual and the group as a whole. There are people that may take what I said out of (unprovided) context, or just on their own decide to skimp on DT / MEVA because they're absolutely underestimating the danger of the content / situation.

Know your role, know your personnel, know the conditions you're operating under.
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