Sword Art Online [spoilers]

Dubbed anime is like already chewed gum found on a sidewalk :|

And you are hiding behind the "you mad" argument. You are no longer arguing with information, you are arguing with emotions. You have already failed.

That's a mechanical problem. Japanese is a surprisingly terse language whereas English is exceptionally verbose. Subbing does at least allow for more time to get a better translation, but I honestly find that I lose emotional impact when I'm reading text. I've watched a few shows and movies that have good English dubs (the re-dub of AKIRA, for instance) and found that I'd missed some implications because of the disconnect between voice and words. It's just a shame that so many dubbing studios are mediocre.

I answered that above. Immediately following your posting of two clips. Based on you calling in your little white knight buddy, I sort of thought you just lacked any way to respond to what I said.

But I'll play along and rephrase what I implied: things of a sexual nature aren't inherently bad. At least some of the nudity in Ghost in the Shell actually served a function. And even if some of it was fanservice (which some of it certainly was), it involved an adult. The repeated and pointless use of nudity for Suguha is perverse considering she is, at most, 15 years old. And there was no graphic depiction of rape (designed specifically to cuckold the male's ownership, I might add), nor treatment of a strong female as a literal object.

For the record, I didn't like the use of underage nudity in Madoka Magica, either, but it was nothing like as lecherous as the way the camera treats Suguha. The presence of one bad element isn't enough to sink something, though. The rampant objectification in SAO is a lot more than just "one element," though, and far from the only flaw the series has.

Theres a cultural disconnect in what youve said as well, in Japan and the rest of the world the age of consent is far below 18. We Americans like to impose our views of the subject on other cultures and its just not correct. I agree the whole rape and sexualization of characters with no point to it are out of line, but in some instances it goes along with the story and that character. Its also a fantasy action drama about an MMO and you cant tell me most MMO players dont objectify and fantasize about this type of stuff on a daily basis (which is particularly the point, depicting the cliches of an MMO world as if they were able to happen in a real world).

as far as the voice acting goes, its a performance....and most of the common VAs in the english dubbing studios just read the lines and dont think about what theyre actually saying that in. Many shows fall flat in the English dub and SAO isnt excluded from that.

My specific objection is to how Suguha herself is treated. Not her character Leafa (who does have a ridiculous bust size) nor any of the other women in the MMOs. ALO at least has a copout excuse that player appearance is randomized. Ironically SAO avoided the usual problem of guys playing female avatars and lampshaded it neatly in the first episode.

Nudity should serve a purpose, just like any other choice of design or plotting. When Asuna starts de-equipping her gear because she intends to have e-sex with Kirito, it makes sense. I'm not objecting to that. When we spend several minutes staring at Suguha naked in the shower in real life for literally no reason, though, that's a very different situation.

As for age of consent, first off, while Japan has a relatively low age of consent, it isn't as simple as it seems. There are a host of provisos attached to it (mostly making it legal for teenagers to have sex with other teenagers). But this isn't an issue about age of consent. The only sex that happens in this series is an attempted rape, which necessarily is non-consensual.

Actually, that's something I really don't get: if Kirito has willing girls on tap, why does he have the apparent sexual drive of a comatose 70-year-old? Is this some feature of harem anime or something?

Anyhow, there's no sex involved, just the exploitation of minors. Ignoring that no 15-year-old Japanese girl will ever look like Suguha does (fun fact: because she's a kendo whiz, she ought to be muscular and angular with relatively small breasts -- I'm pretty sure that's how she gets described in the novellas, too), the deliberate use of her nudity and near-nudity would be child exploitation if she'd been a real actress being filmed. Given it serves zero function in the series, it is clearly just pornography. And I don't object to (most) pornography except when a minor is involved. And even Japan has laws regarding that. Moreover, the overwhelming majority of the populace objects to manga and anime with child pornography in it, so saying there's a core group of perverts who need their loli is not a compelling argument.

The so called fanservice is a constant in pretty much all anime, you're not going to escape that.

I know. Fanservice involving adult women is just something I find silly, though. And if objectification is just "one of those things," we need more scantily clad men.

You get it sometimes from female authors, but good luck with male etherosexual ones :p

I know that's just a typo, but now I really wanna know what an etherosexual is. It sounds like someone who is attracted to ghosts or something.

Also, I don't get why all the self-insert male protagonists of anime tend to be these sunken-chested little weaklings. If we can give an adolescent girl a rack more suited to Dolly Parton, I don't get why there's no fantasy of a teenage hero with real muscles. Is Japan's aesthetic to like anorexic thinness in its men and improbably huge *** in its women?

I'd say that's the case as far as males go, if you consider all famous male artists have an androgynous look and that in anime muscled characters are considered mostly joke characters.

Never had ultradimensional sex? You don't know what you're missing!

I don't think I've ever seen a buff Japanese male.

I havent seen this scene..or may have glossed over it. What episode does that happen? IS that after she developes feelings for Kirito (and they reveal the lolincestualbuthteyarenttechnicallyrelated feels she has for him IRL)? Theres a lot of internal dialogue in those scenes,i believe.

Im not justifying pedophilia as an argument...its simply put that even if they do have those exceptions for age of consent its a completely different reasoning behind it than our own here in the states (where a large portion is 16-18 years varying by state) which doesnt allow even sexual intercourse between two consenting teens.

Its a bias really that you "view" it as pornography anyway (you even say theres no sexual activity besides a few "close" rape scenes [which, are actually based around that character being controlling and just generally maniacal]). Theres clearly no sexual activity or intended innuendo in it, theres plenty of episodes in the history of anime where bath scenes are a sort of reflection time or inner conflict type of thing and thats more than likely what they were trying to do (if its the period in the anime im thinking it is).

but yea, usually nudity in certain genres is used for a reason, not necessarily pr0nz all the time, but if they wanted to create a more adult-like setting in an online game it could happen (and it does happen).

I don't remember seeing any before googling it just now:






It seems so odd.

shopped.I swear i see some misplaced pixels.

I live in a city with a huge population of East Asians on student visas. I've seen plenty of muscular Asian guys. I wasn't suggesting that they need to be as big as the ones that Arana just linked to, either. But I definitely know Asian guys who wish they were that big, so I find it weird that if we're going to indulge in the fantasy that East Asian women have large breasts, why not indulge a similar fantasy that East Asian men are visibly strong? Goku in Dragon Ball Z was a reasonable size when he was just sitting around.

Which scene are you talking about? You quoted me discussing two very separate ones. I'm guessing you mean the bit with Suguha. I don't know how you could miss the shower scene since the camera spends several minutes lingering on her steam-blurred *** and ***, but it was when she logged out en route to the World Tree to get dinner and such. Um... episode 18. The same episode spent several minutes staring at her in her panties and bra, too. This wasn't ambiguous stuff - it was pornography. Of a minor.

Also, Suguha and Kazuto are cousins. They're still very closely related. It's definitely incest. And really foul given they psychologically think of each other as siblings.

Also also, what the hell is this word "feels" I keep seeing you use as a noun? It's "feelings." Is this some kind of ridiculous wasei-eigo thing?

I like incest so leave it be!

They are Hidetada Yamagishi and Young Joo Son.

Both real life body builders with many more pics than those.

Some anime series I found interesting for one reason or another, and enjoyed watching:

FMA Brotherhood
Hunter X Hunter (only watched the original, kept up with the manga)
Monster
Fate ZERO
Death Note
Darker than Black
Shingeki no kyojin

and some of the stuff the others mentioned, too.

Of course, nothing is not without its problems, and I definitely wouldn't call anyone who didn't enjoy something I did a "hater"..heck, my best friend doesn't like anime at all.
It's not about the type/genre as much as it is about finding the series interesting or not. I simply didn't find SoA interesting enough, compared to the attention it received. Is it because it's about MMO's? Well, it disappointed me in that regard. The main character was not interesting at all to care about, Asuna was ok, the rest of the cast was...nonexistent?

In the end, if you enjoyed it, good for you, that's all what matters ^^

This is by far the smartest thing anyone has said in the entire argument.

I differ for a lot of reasons, but the big one is more of a clarification: if you enjoyed it and can explain why, so be it. This is the heart of criticism and analysis and I really do not understand why it makes people freak out. Possibly because trying to explain an opinion might reveal that you don't hold it as much as you did? I've been guilty of that.

Agreed. I'd like to add that I always view anime as the industry of exaggeration, and the voice acting follows suit. Many men speak in an overly masculine voice, and most women speak in a very soft tone. Actually it's not limited to anime, seiyuus do that in other media, like video games. Maybe English-speaking voice actors don't get that (besides being outright bad).

But has anyone else noticed that live-action actors "exaggerate", too? Of the few movies I watched, most actors gave me the feeling that they were taking it to the extreme with their facial expressions and voices. Even "veteran" actors like Kitano Takeshi in critically-acclaimed movies like Battle Royale.

It's not incest. First cousin marriages are not considered incestual in JP, and many other parts of the world. But I agree that it was sick to use that as a way to get around actual incest (and they had them raised together to make it "worse").

It is.

Isn't one common fantasy setting in their industry is to have the woman dress up as a schoolgirl in the sailor or gym attire? Not to mention cosplay as underage anime characters. I think that means it is popular.

I really enjoyed this. Thanks for the recommendation Kal.

:) np

Well guys, for everyone here who loved this series as much as I did, there's good news! Sword Art Online II(The Gun Gale Online arc) Airs July 5th! The trailer is on youtube, just search up "Sword Art Online II". I can't wait for it to air!

Yush!

new season out now!

So, Opinions on the newest season so far? (GGO Arc)
Personally im loving it. But now that im back in the SAO nostalgia im waiting for there to be a MMO similar to it..... it'd be cool for virtual reality, but even if its just a game with floor bosses and the customization, the customization was just endless. choosing your weapon, how you look, each skill you get. its basicly a giant cross-class make your own job! i wish there was a game like this out there, but i guess all i can do is wait!

But anyway, opinions on newest season?

like watching lion king for the first time when you're 5yrs old.
FCKIN AMAZING

Hmmm youtube thing isn't working.
Lion King trailer.

Don't read if you don't want to know.