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[Dev] RNG: Ammo Adjustments
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1899
By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2012-09-13 20:31:58
Few things to say here:
1) *** Yes, Get mad fkin smithers.
2) lol Dramatica, also haven't you quit or something? piss off already
3) Yum
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Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1285
By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-09-13 20:35:51
You are by far one of the worst posters in existence. I would love to be given some insight into double gallu/rex wins that have RNG as your top DD and use only one SMN though. Since when are bullets made by smithing? You mean alchemy?
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Ragnarok.Ejiin
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 528
By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2012-09-13 20:40:13
my other group does PD way and 5 DD and i can say after 10+ mul wins, it is overall easier and much faster how we do it with the jp without PD.
Doing double wave3 is nothing special. PD method is without a doubt faster, safer.
I'm assuming where they drop SMN they add more RNG or COR, in which case, ideally, you could drop SMN and add more melee DD instead, which would result in faster kills assuming stuns were perfect, which they need to be in any method used.
Point is, Dramatica is correct, if RNG is coming in first, there's a huge problem with the other DD.
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Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1899
By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2012-09-13 20:40:48
Didn't you need smithing too? w/e
1) Get mad alchemists
Asura.Kese
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 395
By Asura.Kese 2012-09-13 20:41:07
you know how easy it is to stun lock a mob w/ 3 sch? gallu dies in about 30 seconds, and the only trouble we really ever have is if rex astral flow and people cant get away from it. we bring one smn, for the 2nd rex if the run is going smoothly. ill gladly stream our next run on monday if you would like to see.
Asura.Kese
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 395
By Asura.Kese 2012-09-13 20:42:23
my other group does PD way and 5 DD and i can say after 10+ mul wins, it is overall easier and much faster how we do it with the jp without PD.
Doing double wave3 is nothing special. PD method is without a doubt faster, safer.
I'm assuming where they drop SMN they add more RNG or COR, in which case, ideally, you could drop SMN and add more melee DD instead, which would result in faster kills assuming stuns were perfect, which they need to be in any method used. ddx4 whm cor, rngx2 cor brd whm, schx3 pld thf smn. it is insanely easy to keep any mob stun locked with 3 good sch who know what they are doing.
ill give you that as to ive never done this way with the normal DD i do mul with (PD way). the JP dd were in no way ideally geared 99brav 99rag 99ukon 99vere, infact i found it hard to believe we did as good as we did. the parse i have of the run was a little skewed as i missed some of it from dropping pty and buffing. but im going to stream their next run on monday, and will try to get a more accurate parse.
Server: Phoenix
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-09-13 20:42:52
I know gallu is easy, I was more so curious about Rex without PD. Good to know that an alternative method is possible. I meant no disrespect in my earlier posts, I was simply stating that the damage potential of ranger is lower than buffed DDs and thus the cost of their ammo should be lowered.
Ragnarok.Ejiin
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 528
By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2012-09-13 20:48:41
ddx4 whm cor, rngx2 cor brd whm, schx3 pld thf smn. it is insanely easy to keep any mob stun locked with 3 good sch who know what they are doing.
Yeah, I've felt PD wasn't 100% needed for the longest time, but we normally only run with 11 real people, so it's just easier for us to bring mules SMN.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4189
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2012-09-13 20:50:46
My knowledge of rng things is rather limited so perhaps some explanation is needed but I am very curious as to how the fight would go and what factors would provide a rng with a parse win on any zerg style fight. I just can't see the math behind that.
Asura.Kese
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 395
By Asura.Kese 2012-09-13 20:53:44
ddx4 whm cor, rngx2 cor brd whm, schx3 pld thf smn. it is insanely easy to keep any mob stun locked with 3 good sch who know what they are doing.
Yeah, I've felt PD wasn't 100% needed for the longest time, but we normally only run with 11 real people, so it's just easier for us to bring mules SMN. Yeah thats how we do our weekly runs with my normal group. been wanting to try a Non pd method but its been hard to find the people we need for it.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1009
By Sylph.Mirvana 2012-09-13 23:09:44
This is the same as Flame Geodes, only instead of low supply making high demand, its vice versa.
I'm just glad I've burnt up my Synergy. To hell with paying AH prices on arrows OR bullets atm.
Bahamut.Serj
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2012-09-13 23:16:55
I still laugh when Hotsoups says rng is a beast DD in vw where that's the event they're probably the worst off in.
Inb4 I outparse PUGs.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1009
By Sylph.Mirvana 2012-09-13 23:27:32
If you can WS for more than 3000 on ANY job in VW youre a beast w/ Dusty spam.
Bahamut.Serj
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2012-09-13 23:29:27
Because the only way you should get tp is via dusty wings.
Going to stop now since this isn't a thread for this.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2767
By Odin.Tsuneo 2012-09-13 23:33:06
It always seems to be the subpar DD's that have a Bard when I do VW.
Server: Sylph
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Posts: 694
By Sylph.Decimus 2012-09-13 23:36:34
How did the delay reduction between ranged attacks affect things or has it even been implemented yet?
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-09-13 23:38:20
If you can WS for more than 3000 on ANY job in VW youre a beast w/ Dusty spam. Dusty Wings are overrated. Quite a few jobs/weapons are better off using wings in a limited capacity (activating AM3) or not using them at all.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1009
By Sylph.Mirvana 2012-09-13 23:40:21
Somehow I see this becoming "JAs have Unlimited Shot effect" and "Unlimitied Shot now lasts 2mins" more than anything. Not that that would be terribly unwelcome though, Unlimited Shot has been basically useless for years.
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-09-13 23:47:18
I still laugh when Hotsoups says rng is a beast DD in vw where that's the event they're probably the worst off in.
Inb4 I outparse PUGs.
lol
The reason RNG excels so much in Voidwatch is because of the dusty wings. RNG doesn't get TP as quickly as other jobs and it allows them to keep up.
300 TP fully buffed up last stand spam is nothing to laugh at.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 370
By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-09-13 23:50:43
I'm not advocating that RNG is the best DD out there. I'm just refuting that RNG does subpar damage, which is entirely untrue.
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Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2767
By Odin.Tsuneo 2012-09-13 23:58:52
The reason RNG excels so much in Voidwatch is because of the dusty wings. RNG doesn't get TP as quickly as other jobs and it allows them to keep up.
300 TP fully buffed up last stand spam is nothing to laugh at. I don't see you getting Dusty Wings fast enough to keep up with the TP gain of my double marched WAR.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-09-14 00:02:41
The reason RNG excels so much in Voidwatch is because of the dusty wings. RNG doesn't get TP as quickly as other jobs and it allows them to keep up.
300 TP fully buffed up last stand spam is nothing to laugh at. Wings eat up a few seconds of time when you count use + static delay. In that time, a two-hand melee is going to get about halfway to their next WS. Factor in white damage and the apparent gap between damage due to Last Stand's high potential closes very quickly even here, let alone when you're shooting for TP.
I'm not advocating that RNG is the best DD out there. I'm just refuting that RNG does subpar damage, which is entirely untrue. Can't refute it until you define what is actually "par", and any such judgement will be subjective anyway. Wasting your time.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1009
By Sylph.Mirvana 2012-09-14 00:06:12
Plus as already stated, not the thread for it. Speculate about ammo changes.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 65
By Bismarck.Funstealer 2012-09-14 00:28:28
here we go another theard about discussing if ranger is a dd or not again
-ranger in VW is top 3 DD easyly i do it with my crappy gandiva
-ranger is best on odin outa range of aoe damage and dispells ect
-ranger and legion idunno about yet havnt done much seems pretty soild addition tho
-i hear a kclub ranger or even without in neo nyzul can do some pretty awesome things
k now that we coverd all 4 events in this game(cause there is nothing else worthwhile atm anymore) all u haters need to wake up and realise this
as for the ammo i just dont think they should change it messes with the crafters if u cant handle the cost thats to bad
plus with recycle and scouts hat+2 u alrdy got more than enough saved ammo
now if they did change this they need to do it for ninja tools and cards too and any other consumable it would only be fair wouldnt it?
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Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-09-14 00:32:20
Price of ninja tools and cards is not comparable to the cost of ammunition.
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Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-09-14 00:34:09
Ninja tools and cards both have universals, and some gear/means to use the ability with a chance to not use a tool/card. Anyways that's way off topic. Secondly "fun stealer", you sure did steal the fun out of this thread by going on your lil rant there lol. Some of the rangers that have posted are looking to this change positively. Why so negative?
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2767
By Odin.Tsuneo 2012-09-14 00:36:52
I'm all for this, but I'm not going to pretend RNG is something it's not. Perhaps, one day, we'll get more content one day that utilizes what RNG brings to the table.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 65
By Bismarck.Funstealer 2012-09-14 00:54:44
Ninja tools and cards both have universals, and some gear/means to use the ability with a chance to not use a tool/card. Anyways that's way off topic. Secondly "fun stealer", you sure did steal the fun out of this thread by going on your lil rant there lol. Some of the rangers that have posted are looking to this change positively. Why so negative?
ranger has job trait recycle to not shoot ammo thats meritable even along with the scouts head is off 50% proc rate(eye balling)
mainly i think its just unfair to the crafters se seems to like to make crafting less and less profitable each time they do a update
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19486
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-09-14 00:59:56
Most crafters are already *** over enough, may as well take away everything and even the playing field. Cooking and Fishing will be the only profitable "crafts" left, and that's just fine!
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1285
By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-09-14 01:08:26
Get in on the hexed -1 market while you can! 100mil gambieras, etc.
09-11-2012 02:42 PM | Okipuit | Community Rep | |
| | Fellow rangers,
I have some great news! The lead developer is proceeding to analyze the cost for ammo made via synthesis and synergy, as well as considering ways for rangers to be more conservative through job abilities.
We definitely appreciate the feedback provided so far in this and the Producer Matsui suggestion thread; they will be take into consideration. However, if you have any left over concrete feedback you would like to provide or if there is a really great suggestion that you feel must be implemented, please let us know! | |
11-07-2012 06:50 AM | Slycer | BG Translator | |
| | Regarding the Cost of Ammunition
Hello,
Matsui & co. have discussed adjustments related to the cost of ammunition, and we are thinking about the following adjustments:
Add Recycle job traits
We want Recycle to be learned as a basic job trait, with the degree of the effect increasing at certain levels.
Increase the effects of recycle items and merit points on the probability of triggering Recycle.
Although we could increase the number from a synthesis result or have ammo be sold in stores, we think it will be of greater benefit to increase the effectiveness of Recycle.
So that you have an idea of the amount of Recycle we are talking about, at the moment, we are considering that the combined effect of merit points, equipment, and the job trait could increase the Recycle rate to about 90% (not taking into account damage reduction by making certain gear choices).
Translated by: Slycer | |
11-07-2012 12:38 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| | Hello!
Producer Matsui has been carefully looking into ways to address players’ concerns about ammo costs, and is planning on the below changes:
Recycle job trait
- Instead of acquiring this trait via merit points, it will be learned naturally through leveling. The strength of the effect will increase in tiers depending on your level.
- Adding merit points to the Recycle category will enhance the activation rate.
While there were other suggestions given as feedback, the development team feels that increasing the effect of Recycle holds the most benefit. They are still in the midst of discussing what would be a good amount to enhance it, but as a starting point they have currently mentioned a rate of 90% with the job trait, merit points, and equipment. Please note that they are not planning any kind of damage decrease to go along with these changes.
We will be sure to keep you posted on any additional information we hear! | |
11-08-2012 07:53 AM | Slycer | BG Translator | |
| | Regarding the Cost of Ammunition (continued)
{{Couple of JP Posts about Scout's Beret +2 augment essentially saying it will become a required piece of gear for all RNGs for almost everything, asking if that was intentional.
[JP Post 1 - Siren.Momama]
[JP Post 2 - Bismarck.Sclud] }}
In the current state, with 5 merits in "Recycle," ultimately, the effect will yield TP+5 about 90% of the time, as you said. However, in order to allow for the use of a variety of equipment, this does not seem acceptable at this time. I would appreciate any further feedback, if you have any.
Translated by: Slycer | |
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