[Dev] Nyzul Isle Assault Bug

I'm having a hard time keeping myself together when you make claims that Nyzul isn't poorly designed because the facts say otherwise.

1. It isn't PUG friendly.
In an age where content is already few and far between with Voidwatch being the dominant event what many people were expecting from NIU was content that could be pug'd and played in a similar fashion to the original Nyzul - and SE failed wonderfully here.

2. All or nothing content.
If it wasn't bad enough content is limited to once/day, the idea of getting nothing for losing the content is silly and discourages individuals from giving it a try. Look guys, I got 3 Alexandrites for my time!

3. NQ/HQ/HQ1/HQ2 gear is useless.
Seriously, outside of the floor 80 and floor 100 drops the other pieces are just stand-ins worse than +2 gear easily acquired in the popular Abyssea content. Why would anyone do Nyzul over Abyssea? Beats me.

4. Required Embravas to make it anywhere.
Difficulty = burning 2hrs? No.

You sound like a terrible SCH.

At 75 cap people were used to waiting months or even years for a piece of gear, @99 everyone wants the gear now, and anything that slows that gear collection down is broken.

Dynamis is a T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E conparison.
Even back in the 75 days if you didn't end up with your gear you still had a shot at coming away with a decent chunk of change for your 2hrs spent.
You also didn't have to beat DL every run starting in dynamis-jeuno everytime to get your gear. Not to mention other than 1-2 pieces per job, the gear was trash.
There also wasn't nearly as much content fighting for your game time. If you don't feel like you have a shot @ reaching floor 100, you go do something else.

Yes, the game has evolved and I expect the developers to realize this.

Crazy, right?

Hell, it's not even about speed running gear because point systems (like Einherjar), climbs (like old Nyzul) or ease of access to content (like Voidwatch) all trump the horse poop that is Nyzul Uncharted. It's a terrible event by design and a monumental failure which is why so many people jumped right to cheating instead of doing it legitimate.

And this is how the majority of MMORPGs are nowadays. For those of you that have not ventured outside of FFXI, it's just how things are.

We all put in time (well, most of us) at the 75 cap, because we didn't know any better. Game development has progressed since then, and we've realized from competing games (WoW, TOR, etc.) that things don't have to be the way they used to be. Back in 2003-2006 when people were putting up with kings and such it wasn't because it was a good system, it's because someone hadn't thought up a better one, or that we hadn't experienced it yet.

Of course, you can make the argument of entitlement, etc., but let's look at this from a business perspective. If SE decides that we aren't entitled to enjoy ourselves, we can decide that they aren't entitled to our money any longer. Thousands of players decide each month that they don't want to pay anymore, and this is a factor that SE seems to have finally realized. They can't just kick us in the face anymore, because we'll just go elsewhere. There is so much that is different now from when I had my original character as far as communication from SE to the playerbase goes. Back when I quit in 2007, there was no interaction between SE and the playerbase. And guess what? There is now, because the silent treatment from devs to the players just doesn't fly anymore.

Too often, people complain on the forums that whenever someone wants something that is broken adjusted that the player is asking for something on a silver platter, or that we feel we should have everything handed to us. More often than not, this isn't the case, it's usually players that feel that through putting in reasonable effort, they should receive compensation for their time in an equally reasonable fashion.

Old Dynamis was bad. NNI is bad. At the end of the day, all players want is content that they can enjoy with friends, while continuing to progress their character. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be rewarded for your time spent, but you shouldn't have to cheat to do it.

As far as the Windower arguments go, Windower's basic functions are things that SHOULD ALREADY BE IN THE GAME. Examples of this:

Ranged attacks deal varying damage from different distances, but the game has no ingame distance counter to ensure you are doing maximum damage. The message only does you so much on monsters with knockbacks.

The game requires you to swap up to 15 pieces of gear for maximum damage output on a mage job, but gives you 6 lines of macros, 1 of which is the spell itself. You can make the argument that you can use more than one macro button to cast the spell, but most good black mages would take 4 buttons to cast one thunder spell, and then 3 more to go back to their idle set.

You cannot see the debuffs on the various members of your alliance.

Etc...

These are things that while you CAN deal with them via the ingame interface, it's just poor UI layout. When a great UI enhancement came to WoW via addons, Blizzard incorporated it into the game. SE needs to learn to do the same. They're not the best at game design, they're not even good. In many case, their community knows more about how to make their game better than they do.

For the issue of determining who got their pieces legitimately vs. who didn't?

I have no idea how to approach that. All I know is that this is a huge mess in their living room, and they need to clean it up and communicate what is happening before the community implodes speculating.

Yep, this gear is as good, if not better, as salvage gear was back at 75 cap and think about how long that used to take to get...

inb4 Austar's 1/1 bee story, gfto ; ;

Who the *** QQ besides JP on the forum.


The point of banning is to make it fair to those who didn't cheat already, to tell those who cheat that "we do not tolerate cheats".

If their standard is ban all .dat swap players, and identify based on chat log, it's like telling ppl "we do not tolerate .dat swap mention in chat log" not "we do not tolerate .dat swap". Which doesn't set example of any kind.

Fair means there are no double standard, and it's a totally objective thing. To enforce any sorts of ban hammer, tell players you can do this you can't do that, you can't have double standard.

Using /p chat to determine who cheat who didn't cheat is subjective, and will not set example of any kind. So far I haven't heard of SE banning player based on /p chat, they banned gardening, salvage dupe, flee etc, but none of them has grey areas/double standard.

There are no way SE can execute this ban correctly unless they can already detect .dat swap.

They would have to ban everyone that's gone 10-15/15 in a short period of time. No way SE is going to check every single account that has Nyzul gear.

Then again I wonder if is it really the right thing to do? Unlike at that time at salvage there's were vastly more players playing the game than there's currently playing. With their upcoming expansion would it really be smart banning players that they would want them to buy their new expansion? Compared to then and this is that 90% of the players cheated plus Salvage was way easier to check through logs. But then again it's SE we're talking about so they don't need proof to ban you, if they really want it or getting pushed they might make it happen.

Really, its their game and ToS says they can ban for any reason.

Also, the percentage of players that would get banned isn't as large of the player base as you would think.

IDK why people keep saying "SE cant check every single account" because when Salvage went down they clearly said "we went through a year worth of logs" to track down who was duping and to render justice.

And if there are even less people playing now it should take less time right? :p

HAHAHAHA!


It doesn't matter. When SE decides you're banned, you're banned. Fair or not.

That ToS you are so fond of works both ways.

But by all means have fun telling SE that whatever means they used to determine who was banned or not was "unfair." That is, if there are any bannings at all.

I'm not sure which would upset you more......

If you hate double-standards, you better commit suicide right now before you ever enter the real world. Yeah they suck, but they aren't going away any time soon. Nut-up, put your big-boy pants on, pick your battles, and get off your high-horse.

Ever checked the shouts page? Well guess what? You benefited in game from someone else using a TPA!!! BANHAMMER TIEM!!!

This thread is about a video game?

I had a talk about this with some friends, and they mentioned that in the past there were things very similar to this that people didn't get banned for, some event with three chests, and some mission where all you needed to do was locate the right box, click it and win.

Having this information, I don't think they'll be banning anyone and instead making everything server side, much like those two instanced events, I was also informed that back in the day the one with the three chests dropped a couple rings that were worth a fair amount of gil.

Overreaction, I do apologize. Just sick of fallacy this/fallacy that posts. Hyperbole got the better of me.

But yeah, the shouts page can be seen as a ToS violation by association if you're THAT intent on banning any crossing of ToS. Hope you've never used it to join a VW pt while you were farming if you want that particular banhammer dropped.

SE won't ban because it's fair, also they won't forgo bans because of double standards.

SE has to consider the long term. Large sections of the playerbase (mostly JP granted) are calling for action to be taking against exploiters, it's a weigh up of disatisfied playerbase VS number of subscribers.

If they expect a lot of people to return to the game when their new expansion comes out (no reason to assume not) then the latter matters litte for the moment. Of course they may decide it's more beneficial to keep taking the exploiters money and use it for future develpoments with a "fix" for NNI and a few token suspensions. You never know with SE!

It's actually metagame involving an age old philosophical debate.

Should lack of reward be considered a penalty? If so, are those rewarded the cause of those not rewarded? Is it right for those not rewarded to demand reward? And forgoing their reward, is it right for those denied reward to demand the lives of those rewarded as recompense?

History is rife with the above debate being played out. Entire populations have been massacred over one segment feeling entitled to the reward of the other segment. Hell entire political policy's are formed around that debate.

In short, are those who currently possess NNI 100 gear responsible for the lack of reward to those who don't possess it? Do those who suffer from the lack of it have the right to demand blood from those who do have it? If people sit back and objectively read you can sense a pattern emerging. "I don't have it, you do have it, therefor either you owe me something or you should die for the crime of possessing it". They even go so far as to say that it's completely ok to ban / punish those who didn't cheat, as long as it "gets the ***".

An awfully childish and vindictive attitude.

SE won't ban because they can't figure out "who" to ban. Any scheme they put into place will cause embarrassment. SE doesn't give a damn about the English speaking world, they very much do care about the Japanese speaking world. Japanese game magazines will very negative articles if SE just bans everyone with 100 gear.

Just try to imagine it from the non-playing media point of view "You banned all players who completed your content because you knew you made it too hard to win legitimately and some people did win". They would be laughed at by every game magazine in Japan. And unlike the English speaking portion of the world, Professional Gaming in Japan and South Korea is huge business. It's as big as Soccer / Baseball / Football and other major sports.

Try to imagine a professional runner getting banned from his event, not due to drugs found in his system (they couldn't find any) but because the officials said "no normal human can run that fast, so he must of cheated".

Finally about the Tanaka issue. He's being force to retire, he as much a admitted it.

Last year, after I saw his interview, I said that he had till Q2 ~ Q3 of FY2012 to get his act together or they'll be putting him out. The revenue stream from FFXI is too important to senior SE corporate executives. If that revenue stream dips too low for too many consecutive months then it'll be his head. Especially as the division had been experiencing a period of increasing revenue prior to him taking it back over. He failed to maintain increasing revenues, he failed to maintain steady revenues and in the corporate world that's bad business.

So yes it is Tanaka's fault, it is his vision and his policy that runs the game. Should that vision / policy lead the game into decline then it's his fault. If he should fail to change his vision / policy to bring prosperity and growth to the game then he should be replaced with someone who will do just that. And he is now being replaced.

Do I need to dig out Doshu vs Maxus to lighten the mood?

Just another 2gil out there: If SE does level some bans in the near future, I would wager they'd be more for clippers/fleehacks than for lamps.

If they are non playing media how would they interpret players corrupting game files to win as the above? I agree most players would feel that way, most players feel NNI was impossible/too low a win ratio to win without exploits so "what did SE expect?". SE will argue it was new content and if it had problems with people not able to complete it it would have addressed it, which it said it is now.

You're also assuming SE logic matches your own with banning, if they check logs and find evidence of ToS contravention there is not a 100% chance they will not get banned.

They won't ban everyone with 100 gear that's not what I was saying lol It's pretty stupid to think they will, but I also think it's wrong to think you know SE policy enough to completely rule it out.

Anyways doesn't affect me in the slightest if they do or not, never took part in the scandel only a few legit attempts with LS mates so no fear or retribution and if I wanted the gear badly enough could easily have bought the pieces by now, gil so easy to come by and all lol

Considering they recently only temp banned people using flee hacks I'm led to assume they are not to keen to mass ban people. This seems like just a warning, something like "we know what you were doing but now it's in the public's eyes, so whoever faults from now on won't have any mercy". Or so I think.