Jesus?

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
Language: JP EN FR DE
Version 3.1
New Items
users online
Jesus?
First Page 2 3 ... 12 13 14
 Fenrir.Terminus
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Terminus
Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2012-07-02 13:38:53
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
Because it all deviated from an egyptian tale many civilations ago, riiiiiiight.

There's actually numerous themes and details in common between Christianity and several ancient religions. I don't know that that it's because anything was copied. But if I told you that two brothers decided to build a helicopter on the shore of Maine, you'd probably think I ripped it from the story about two brothers who built a plane and flew it on the shores of North Carolina.

I would hope that a religious person would embrace this idea, rather than rage against it. We all know that religious strife has cause plenty of pain, suffering and death throughout the world. How beautiful would it be if someday, someone connected ALL of the dots and brought all of these people together in a single house of God - one that's based not upon a translation of a translation of a rumor of a king's vendetta, then put into flawed practice by people that don't understand original message, but based on the actual deeds and teachings of some brilliant people in our (shared) past?

Then again, there's this, so idk...

Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
retarted

Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
moots art

Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
betoven
[+]
 Cerberus.Tikal
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Tikal
Posts: 4946
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-07-02 13:44:40
Link | Quote | Reply
 
The phenomena known as Syncretism.
[+]
 Caitsith.Sai
Offline
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
user: Saiii
Posts: 702
By Caitsith.Sai 2012-07-02 13:47:48
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Terminus said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
Because it all deviated from an egyptian tale many civilations ago, riiiiiiight.

There's actually numerous themes and details in common between Christianity and several ancient religions. I don't know that that it's because anything was copied. But if I told you that two brothers decided to build a helicopter on the shore of Maine, you'd probably think I ripped it from the story about two brothers who built a plane and flew it on the shores of North Carolina.

I would hope that a religious person would embrace this idea, rather than rage against it. We all know that religious strife has cause plenty of pain, suffering and death throughout the world. How beautiful would it be if someday, someone connected ALL of the dots and brought all of these people together in a single house of God - one that's based not upon a translation of a translation of a rumor of a king's vendetta, then put into flawed practice by people that don't understand original message, but based on the actual deeds and teachings of some brilliant people in our (shared) past?

It is not in religion's best interest to bring everyone together.
 Lakshmi.Flavin
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Flavin
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-07-02 13:56:09
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Caitsith.Sai said: »
Fenrir.Terminus said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
Because it all deviated from an egyptian tale many civilations ago, riiiiiiight.
There's actually numerous themes and details in common between Christianity and several ancient religions. I don't know that that it's because anything was copied. But if I told you that two brothers decided to build a helicopter on the shore of Maine, you'd probably think I ripped it from the story about two brothers who built a plane and flew it on the shores of North Carolina. I would hope that a religious person would embrace this idea, rather than rage against it. We all know that religious strife has cause plenty of pain, suffering and death throughout the world. How beautiful would it be if someday, someone connected ALL of the dots and brought all of these people together in a single house of God - one that's based not upon a translation of a translation of a rumor of a king's vendetta, then put into flawed practice by people that don't understand original message, but based on the actual deeds and teachings of some brilliant people in our (shared) past?
It is not in religion's best interest to bring everyone together.
Why is that?
 Valefor.Slipispsycho
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14155
By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2012-07-02 14:03:05
Link | Quote | Reply
 
There's no money in peace and harmony?
[+]
 Lakshmi.Flavin
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Flavin
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-07-02 14:09:35
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
To clarify, they have the right to be offended. They do not have the right to demand others not to offend them. My wording was accurate above, though.
And that goes for everybody on every subject ever lol...
 Cerberus.Tikal
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Tikal
Posts: 4946
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-07-02 14:11:07
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
To clarify, they have the right to be offended. They do not have the right to demand others not to offend them. My wording was accurate above, though.
And that goes for everybody on every subject ever lol...
You'd think it'd be that simple, but it's not.
 Caitsith.Sai
Offline
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
user: Saiii
Posts: 702
By Caitsith.Sai 2012-07-02 14:14:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
There is a reason why religion created the boogey man, even though it makes no logical sense vs an omnipotent god creature.

People rally in situations where its them vs the other guys. Its why christianity always refers to everything as "a war" against satan, secularism etc.

We thrive on conflict and religion isnt ignorant of this. Its profitable for islam and christianity for example to view the other as satan's army on Earth.
 Lakshmi.Flavin
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Flavin
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-07-02 14:17:33
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
To clarify, they have the right to be offended. They do not have the right to demand others not to offend them. My wording was accurate above, though.
And that goes for everybody on every subject ever lol...
You'd think it'd be that simple, but it's not.
So only the religious are unable to demand that others not offend them?
 Odin.Liela
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Liela
Posts: 10191
By Odin.Liela 2012-07-02 14:26:11
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
BakingJonez said: »
Odin.Liela said: »
Caitsith.Sai said: »
Not watching videos at work.

Please give a summary.

Eh, summary:

Cleopatra and Julius Caesar had a son named Cesarean (Little Caesar.) Julius Caesar was promoted to the status of a god by his people, making Cesarean actually the son of a "god." Cleopatra described the kid as the "king of kings" when he was just 13 years old. When Caesar's trusted men betrayed him and he was killed, his other kid took over the throne. Cleopatra had an affair with Mark Antony, with whom she mothered three children, two boys and a girl. These are obviously Cesarean's half-siblings.

Hokay then. Cleopatra feared for Cesarean's safety because he was the rightful heir to the throne, so she sent him away with a couple of her most trusted servants (the video hints that they may have been named Mary and Joseph, there is no evidence for this that I can tell other than speculation.) Cesarean had to change his name to hide his identity upon leaving Egypt.

The Bible has a big gap of time in Jesus' life, the years he was between the ages of 13 and 30. During this time a 14-year old kid showed up at a Buddhist monastery and learned the ways of Buddha, recorded in the historical scrolls at the monastery. The kid leaves the monastery, and Jesus shows back up in the Bible, teaches some Buddhist-ish teachings around markets and temples, and heads for Alexandria, the place where Cesarean last saw Cleopatra alive. Cesarean and his two half brothers disappear from the history books.

Jesus and two of his disciples (Thomas and James I think the video said) were said to be half-brothers in the Bible.

It's all very convenient, but whether there's an actual shred of evidence for it, who knows.

Great summary Leila, I forget the wording used but basicly, Cleopatra was thought to be like the virgin god isis. Thus Cesarean was born of a virgin mother and god father.

No of course there aren't any real documents besides those in the India where a child who had the same name in the same time frame.

But there is no real evidence for the bible either. Quite the contrary, that Christianity is a recycled religion.
Because it all deviated from an egyptian tale many civilations ago, riiiiiiight.

He's kinda right, Mnkk. Christianity was taken from the Egyptian myth of Horus, the Sun God. This video compares them side-by-side:




There are several such religions, actually. They originated with sun worship. This video explains that:




Of course people can believe whatever they like. The OP never tried to force you to believe his point of view or his video, he simply showed something fascinating and fun and asked for a discussion on it.
[+]
By volkom 2012-07-02 14:26:40
Link | Quote | Reply
 
mithra <3
 Valefor.Slipispsycho
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14155
By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2012-07-02 14:28:24
Link | Quote | Reply
 
You cannot reason with Mnkk. You're wasting your time.

Then again you can't really expect much from someone who..

moots art.. LOL
[+]
 Cerberus.Tikal
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Tikal
Posts: 4946
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-07-02 14:28:44
Link | Quote | Reply
 
No one has the right. They do it anyway. Questions?
 Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 577
By Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk 2012-07-02 14:39:09
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Terminus said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
Because it all deviated from an egyptian tale many civilations ago, riiiiiiight.

There's actually numerous themes and details in common between Christianity and several ancient religions. I don't know that that it's because anything was copied. But if I told you that two brothers decided to build a helicopter on the shore of Maine, you'd probably think I ripped it from the story about two brothers who built a plane and flew it on the shores of North Carolina.

I would hope that a religious person would embrace this idea, rather than rage against it. We all know that religious strife has cause plenty of pain, suffering and death throughout the world. How beautiful would it be if someday, someone connected ALL of the dots and brought all of these people together in a single house of God - one that's based not upon a translation of a translation of a rumor of a king's vendetta, then put into flawed practice by people that don't understand original message, but based on the actual deeds and teachings of some brilliant people in our (shared) past?

Then again, there's this, so idk...

Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
retarted

Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
moots art

Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
betoven
To fuse all religions would be too decapitate the core belief of every religion. Muslums prize Muhumad, Christians prize Jesus, Budist prize inner peace, the list go's on. Too fuse them would be an impossible endeavor and one, from a Christian stand point would be sacrilegious. Same would go for a Muslim to exalt Jesus to the position of "Christ" (It means Messiah.)
 Lakshmi.Flavin
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Flavin
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-07-02 14:40:15
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
No one has the right. They do it anyway. Questions?
Ok.. we're on the same page again...
 Phoenix.Sehachan
Guide Maker
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Seha
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-07-02 14:40:29
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I have a hard time understanding what this guy writes.
[+]
 Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 577
By Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk 2012-07-02 14:41:50
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Also, to make one religion would mean that its a "New" religion and you would not only have to win the 1 billion Muslims too this new religion, but also the multitudes of Christians. That in and of it self (not to mention the other religions) would account for the widest "Spiritual" conversion in history.
Offline
Posts: 27
By Kasumiiko 2012-07-02 14:43:25
Link | Quote | Reply
 
 Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 577
By Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk 2012-07-02 14:43:30
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Odin.Liela said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
BakingJonez said: »
Odin.Liela said: »
Caitsith.Sai said: »
Not watching videos at work.

Please give a summary.

Eh, summary:

Cleopatra and Julius Caesar had a son named Cesarean (Little Caesar.) Julius Caesar was promoted to the status of a god by his people, making Cesarean actually the son of a "god." Cleopatra described the kid as the "king of kings" when he was just 13 years old. When Caesar's trusted men betrayed him and he was killed, his other kid took over the throne. Cleopatra had an affair with Mark Antony, with whom she mothered three children, two boys and a girl. These are obviously Cesarean's half-siblings.

Hokay then. Cleopatra feared for Cesarean's safety because he was the rightful heir to the throne, so she sent him away with a couple of her most trusted servants (the video hints that they may have been named Mary and Joseph, there is no evidence for this that I can tell other than speculation.) Cesarean had to change his name to hide his identity upon leaving Egypt.

The Bible has a big gap of time in Jesus' life, the years he was between the ages of 13 and 30. During this time a 14-year old kid showed up at a Buddhist monastery and learned the ways of Buddha, recorded in the historical scrolls at the monastery. The kid leaves the monastery, and Jesus shows back up in the Bible, teaches some Buddhist-ish teachings around markets and temples, and heads for Alexandria, the place where Cesarean last saw Cleopatra alive. Cesarean and his two half brothers disappear from the history books.

Jesus and two of his disciples (Thomas and James I think the video said) were said to be half-brothers in the Bible.

It's all very convenient, but whether there's an actual shred of evidence for it, who knows.

Great summary Leila, I forget the wording used but basicly, Cleopatra was thought to be like the virgin god isis. Thus Cesarean was born of a virgin mother and god father.

No of course there aren't any real documents besides those in the India where a child who had the same name in the same time frame.

But there is no real evidence for the bible either. Quite the contrary, that Christianity is a recycled religion.
Because it all deviated from an egyptian tale many civilations ago, riiiiiiight.

He's kinda right, Mnkk. Christianity was taken from the Egyptian myth of Horus, the Sun God. This video compares them side-by-side:




There are several such religions, actually. They originated with sun worship. This video explains that:




Of course people can believe whatever they like. The OP never tried to force you to believe his point of view or his video, he simply showed something fascinating and fun and asked for a discussion on it.
Didnt watch the video. I know the story. Heard it many years ago and i have done my research.
 Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 577
By Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk 2012-07-02 14:45:46
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Caitsith.Sai said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
Hey, you can believe in anything you desire too, but to make a statement that Jesus the man didnt even exist is a very ignorant and retarted statement. Theres more evidence that he was indeed a real person than there is for moots art or betoven, yet their existance is un-questioned. Lol

Really? Like what?

Oh the Bible. ok
No, Josephus was a roman-jewish historian, who was never converted to Christianity. He wrote many things about the trial and death of Jesus of Nazareth.
Offline
Posts: 3689
By daemun 2012-07-02 14:50:26
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Liela, we have much to discuss.
 Cerberus.Tikal
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Tikal
Posts: 4946
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-07-02 14:51:21
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Then give us your insight on Mithra, who predates Christ by ~1400 years, but has an identical origin story.
 Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 577
By Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk 2012-07-02 14:56:04
Link | Quote | Reply
 
The late historian would over-rule the notion that Jesus was figured from an ancient tale.
Offline
Posts: 48
By BakingJonez 2012-07-02 14:57:14
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
Hey, you can believe in anything you desire too, but to make a statement that Jesus the man didnt even exist is a very ignorant and retarted statement. Theres more evidence that he was indeed a real person than there is for moots art or betoven, yet their existance is un-questioned. Lol

No where did anyone say he did not exist. This is more like questioning the broad belief of his undocumented life.

Bringing the bible into the equation lowers any argument you may have.

The first bible was made around 200 A.D. Can you remember the exact wording your friend said yesterday? Let alone passed down a few generations before finally being documented? It's you writing a biography of your great grandpa and his friends that you never met.

Now after those initial problems, comes the chain reaction which leads to the many denominations of 'the same religion' we see today.

Church A. has the 1st bible, well, church B and C want a bible also, so they hand copy the bible word for word. Each their own copies. Now those copies more than likely, due to human error, have mistakes. Now there are 3 bibles in the world, each a little different than the other.

Now branch that off again, in the next city, a church wants their bible, so again, they hand copy church A's bible. With more mistakes. In another city a church copies bible C and so on, leading to different bibles.

These are just human errors, Now add into the mix, Kings and scribes who read a line as say or think, that doesn't make any sense, lets reword this. The document you read today as the 'bible' is very different from the originals. and that is fact. All you have to do is compare a bible today with one 50 years ago. There are differences.
[+]
 Valefor.Slipispsycho
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14155
By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2012-07-02 14:57:45
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
The late historian would over-rule the notion that Jesus was figured from an ancient tale.
Because the idea that a "historian" made ***up or got ***wrong is just completely out of the question, right?
 Cerberus.Tikal
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Tikal
Posts: 4946
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-07-02 15:01:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
The late historian would over-rule the notion that Jesus was figured from an ancient tale.
I don't even know what the hell that means.
[+]
 Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 577
By Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk 2012-07-02 15:02:56
Link | Quote | Reply
 
BakingJonez said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
Hey, you can believe in anything you desire too, but to make a statement that Jesus the man didnt even exist is a very ignorant and retarted statement. Theres more evidence that he was indeed a real person than there is for moots art or betoven, yet their existance is un-questioned. Lol

No where did anyone say he did not exist. This is more like questioning the broad belief of his undocumented life.

Bringing the bible into the equation lowers any argument you may have.

The first bible was made around 200 A.D. Can you remember the exact wording your friend said yesterday? Let alone passed down a few generations before finally being documented? It's you writing a biography of your great grandpa and his friends that you never met.

Now after those initial problems, comes the chain reaction which leads to the many denominations of 'the same religion' we see today.

Church A. has the 1st bible, well, church B and C want a bible also, so they hand copy the bible word for word. Each their own copies. Now those copies more than likely, due to human error, have mistakes. Now there are 3 bibles in the world, each a little different than the other.

Now branch that off again, in the next city, a church wants their bible, so again, they hand copy church A's bible. With more mistakes. In another city a church copies bible C and so on, leading to different bibles.

These are just human errors, Now add into the mix, Kings and scribes who read a line as say or think, that doesn't make any sense, lets reword this. The document you read today as the 'bible' is very different from the originals. and that is fact. All you have to do is compare a bible today with one 50 years ago. There are differences.
If the "bible" isn't the inspired Word of God then it would be easy to go that route. But there is a God and if he can make an entire universe i'm sure He can govern a book. lol please. There's an array of debates i can get into with good evidence and brain food for you to think over, but at the end of the day. 99% of not 100% of you who hate the "Person" of Jesus to begin with, will not have a change of heart. So i will not waste my time any further. Let the Jesus bashing begin. Im out.
Offline
Posts: 27
By Kasumiiko 2012-07-02 15:03:24
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Then give us your insight on Mithra, who predates Christ by ~1400 years, but has an identical origin story.
I read that in the Tutankhamun Prophecies with my Astrology Chart;
Analogist Christ Made Appear the Man Mithra, and served him a purpose of which he didn't give the man anything but blood, water and bread.
 Phoenix.Sehachan
Guide Maker
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Seha
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-07-02 15:04:47
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I never met Jesus, therefore I have no reason to hate him. Please, enlighten me.

Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
But there is a God and if he can make an entire universe i'm sure He can govern a book. lol please.
Derp.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Pleebo
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2012-07-02 15:05:33
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »
God did it, ARGUMENT OVER! /smoke bomb, escape
[+]
First Page 2 3 ... 12 13 14