If you believe in some gods, you're a theist. I don't know why it's hard to grasp that you're either theist or atheist. Also that popular stance on agnosticism is a bunch of ***.
Did I say I believe in a god?
Both of you (you and Jet) are too caught up in making assumptions of people just because it fits/"strengthens" your argument.
I don't know why it's so hard to grasp that you can actually be neutral. I don't have to entirely believe or entirely disbelieve. For instance, I can disbelieve in the Christian god, but also accept the fact that there might be a deity out there, that I simply don't know.
If you believe in some gods, you're a theist. I don't know why it's hard to grasp that you're either theist or atheist. Also that popular stance on agnosticism is a bunch of ***.
Did I say I believe in a god?
Both of you (you and Jet) are too caught up in making assumptions of people just because it fits/"strengthens" your argument.
I don't know why it's so hard to grasp that you can actually be neutral. I don't have to entirely believe or entirely disbelieve. For instance, I can disbelieve in the Christian god, but also accept the fact that there might be a deity out there, that I simply don't know.
If you're not actively. believing, you're an atheist. There is no middle ground.
Religion should always be a choice though... it is your own personal journey and should never be forced upon you... Just like most things in life... There should be freedom to choose but there are times when things are forced upon us and religion is not the only one to do this... not at all excusing its use though... just to make that clear...
People aren't given the choice because if we let adults decide about religion without a childhood of indoctrination, religion would be dead before I am planted in the ground.
ok... I can only go off my own experiences and those around me but I never felt like I was indoctrinated... so to say that religion doesn't give anyone a choice and just indoctrinates them into the fold would be false... I'm somewhat aware of how things are handled differently in different parts of this nation let alone the world... but people always have a choice... it seems like many of you on the boards were raised in sort sort of religious household and do not affiliate with religion and even speak out against it... so you are able to make a choice for yourself at some point... is it an easy one? in some cases yes in others no...
But again to act like this is solely a religious thing it isn't... I've had a friend beaten by her family and her family come after me just because I didn't have permission to be with their daughter lol... One friends father disowned him because he wouldn't play football anymore... Again not excusing any wrongs that anyone has had to suffer because of it... my parents want me to start going to church again but even if I don't they wont hate or judge me for it...
If you believe in some gods, you're a theist. I don't know why it's hard to grasp that you're either theist or atheist. Also that popular stance on agnosticism is a bunch of ***.
Did I say I believe in a god?
Both of you (you and Jet) are too caught up in making assumptions of people just because it fits/"strengthens" your argument.
I don't know why it's so hard to grasp that you can actually be neutral. I don't have to entirely believe or entirely disbelieve. For instance, I can disbelieve in the Christian god, but also accept the fact that there might be a deity out there, that I simply don't know.
ok... I can only go off my own experiences and those around me but I never felt like I was indoctrinated... so to say that religion doesn't give anyone a choice and just indoctrinates them into the fold would be false... I'm somewhat aware of how things are handled differently in different parts of this nation let alone the world... but people always have a choice... it seems like many of you on the boards were raised in sort sort of religious household and do not affiliate with religion and even speak out against it... so you are able to make a choice for yourself at some point... is it an easy one? in some cases yes in others no...
But again to act like this is solely a religious thing it isn't... I've had a friend beaten by her family and her family come after me just because I didn't have permission to be with their daughter lol... One friends father disowned him because he wouldn't play football anymore... Again not excusing any wrongs that anyone has had to suffer because of it... my parents want me to start going to church again but even if I don't they wont hate or judge me for it...
Are you religious? If so, how did you become a part of your religion?
Personally, I could post my deconversion story. There was no 'choice', and it's a large source of friction in my family. At one point, when it was found out I was an atheist, several family members cut contact with me for a time.
I don't feel that people who claim atheism is the lack of a belief structure have it right.
I typo'd. I used auto correct, and it came out as attentively. It was supposed to be actively. Anyway, disbelieving takes no effort. Atheism is merely lack of belief, so when you take a middle ground you are not believing nor are you disbelieving, but the problem is the moment you stop believing you're automatically an atheist. It only takes no belief to be an atheist. Atheism just means without god. Nowhere does it say it requires a belief in no gods.
If you believe in some gods, you're a theist. I don't know why it's hard to grasp that you're either theist or atheist. Also that popular stance on agnosticism is a bunch of ***.
Did I say I believe in a god?
Both of you (you and Jet) are too caught up in making assumptions of people just because it fits/"strengthens" your argument.
I don't know why it's so hard to grasp that you can actually be neutral. I don't have to entirely believe or entirely disbelieve. For instance, I can disbelieve in the Christian god, but also accept the fact that there might be a deity out there, that I simply don't know.
We call that deism, usually.
Learned a new word. Surprisingly it's not really all that far off from describing me. Need to look more thoroughly into it but just skimming it I'm not ready to start calling myself a deist. It seems deists make an assertion/claim that there is a God, which I'm not willing to do.
Speaking of witchcraft, I actually attempt sorcery in private! Does magic exist? Most likely it doesn't, but who knows, one day I may actually succeed in summoning something! So I can understand that kind of stance from religious people.
They were right, I'm a witch. Just for fun, I need my childish hobbies too!
Deism is currently a bit of a catch-all term. It seems to generally be "If there's a god, it's beyond and not terribly important to our day to day life. Maybe, maybe not; the universe could be god, maybe not. Eh."
Speaking of witchcraft, I actually attempt sorcery in private! Does magic exist? Most likely it doesn't, but who knows, one day I may actually succeed in summoning something! So I can understand that kind of stance from religious people.
They were right, I'm a witch. Just for fun, I need my childish hobbies too!
I want to know how anyone can blindly believe some stories and so easily dismiss others when neither has any factual support.
It's called faith.
Faith allows you to believe in something you can't touch, yes.
But faith doesn't explain how one can blindly believe Jesus is the son of God, while Zeus, etc. is make believe.
ok... I can only go off my own experiences and those around me but I never felt like I was indoctrinated... so to say that religion doesn't give anyone a choice and just indoctrinates them into the fold would be false... I'm somewhat aware of how things are handled differently in different parts of this nation let alone the world... but people always have a choice... it seems like many of you on the boards were raised in sort sort of religious household and do not affiliate with religion and even speak out against it... so you are able to make a choice for yourself at some point... is it an easy one? in some cases yes in others no... But again to act like this is solely a religious thing it isn't... I've had a friend beaten by her family and her family come after me just because I didn't have permission to be with their daughter lol... One friends father disowned him because he wouldn't play football anymore... Again not excusing any wrongs that anyone has had to suffer because of it... my parents want me to start going to church again but even if I don't they wont hate or judge me for it...
Are you religious? If so, how did you become a part of your religion? Personally, I could post my deconversion story. There was no 'choice', and it's a large source of friction in my family. At one point, when it was found out I was an atheist, several family members cut contact with me for a time.
I'm not a practicing Catholic anymore... It's like I said before... I went to a Catholic school and they had all the reconciliation, communnion and confirmation... byt the time I was in about 5th grade I started to question things more and had many conversations with my parents and the preists in my parish... I was conflicted because I couldn't really bring myself to believe with certainty or have the faith that seemed that would follow if I were to make this commitment... I had actually received persmission to skip out on confirmation if I did not feel I was ready... no one ever pressured me into anything... for the most part it just seemed like everyone went through the motions and no one really liked going to mass lol... It was always something that people came back to and decided later on in life it seemed whether they were going to go down that path or not...
Basically though they pretty much told me it was my decision and it was something that I had to feel and that was something that no one else could give to me other than through self discovery and examination... That it would just be something that I know... my parents never threatened me or told me they wouldn't love me if I didn't go through with it... they were always supportive even if they wanted me to go a certain way...
I'm sorry that your family turned on you but I never got that in the first place... And religion isn't the only cause for that happening... sometimes its religion or maybe the military or if you're gay or if you marry a girl/guy of a different race... As sad as it is that family abandons its members over differences in belief it's not restricted to religion...
You've already talked about it.. that is if I'm remembering correctly and you were the one on the path to becoming a bishop...
Also, what about the humans on the American continent at the time? Why exactly weren't they informed of your religious belief (or any Eurasian belief system) until some 1400+ years later when Europeans showed up and inadvertently/purposely wiped them out?
Were these people just not important?
This is my biggest problem of organized religions. If you don't believe the same thing, and follow their gods/prophets you are doomed to an eternity of damnation. Yes, very loving gods indeed.
I don't feel that people who claim atheism is the lack of a belief structure have it right.
I typo'd. I used auto correct, and it came out as attentively. It was supposed to be actively. Anyway, disbelieving takes no effort. Atheism is merely lack of belief, so when you take a middle ground you are not believing nor are you disbelieving, but the problem is the moment you stop believing you're automatically an atheist. It only takes no belief to be an atheist. Atheism just means without god. Nowhere does it say it requires a belief in no gods.
That's false. I can actively, or attentively disbelieve. I can actively disbelief my girlfriend isn't cheating on me, but that has no bearing on the actual facts of the world.
People who feel the need to call attention to the fact that they don't believe in a god are actively disbelieving. They're thinking about the fact that they believe there is no god.
I can passively disbelieve that my big right toe is in actuality a hippopotamus but that type of disbelief really isn't all that interesting. It isn't something I think about, so it really doesn't impact me in any meaningful way.
Agnostics are interesting because when it is called to their attention they actively choose not to take a stance.
Your definition of agnositc is yet again wrong. I didn't say disbelieving had to be passive. I just said it could be, so this whole middle ground thing is nonexistent.
I'm sure there are some people who have honestly never taken a position on the whole matter, in which they don't have a belief structure. But the majority of people have been exposed to religion in some form or fashion and have had to take a stance at some point.
Your definition of agnositc is yet again wrong. I didn't say disbelieving had to be passive. I just said it could be, so this whole middle ground thing is nonexistent.
You can choose to not take a side. That is a choice.
Your definition of agnositc is yet again wrong. I didn't say disbelieving had to be passive. I just said it could be, so this whole middle ground thing is nonexistent.
You can choose to not take a side. That is a choice.
It doesn't matter if you take a side. If you don't actively believe in a god, you're an atheist. It doesn't matter if you label yourself that. You're still an atheist.
Your definition of agnositc is yet again wrong. I didn't say disbelieving had to be passive. I just said it could be, so this whole middle ground thing is nonexistent.
You can choose to not take a side. That is a choice.
It doesn't matter if you take a side. If you don't actively believe in a god, you're an atheist. It doesn't matter if you label yourself that. You're still an atheist.
I think we're at a fundamental impasse at what an atheist is. And neither one of us is going to convince the other that the we are right.
Your definition of agnositc is yet again wrong. I didn't say disbelieving had to be passive. I just said it could be, so this whole middle ground thing is nonexistent.
You can choose to not take a side. That is a choice.
It doesn't matter if you take a side. If you don't actively believe in a god, you're an atheist. It doesn't matter if you label yourself that. You're still an atheist.
Isn't that kind of like saying if you aren't actively in a relationship with someone of the the opposite sex then you're gay? or vice versa?
I may be misunderstadning this but are you saying that if you don't actively do something your the opposite?
Isn't that kind of like saying if you aren't actively in a relationship with someone of the the opposite sex then you're gay? or vice versa?
I may be misunderstadning this but are you saying that if you don't actively do something your the opposite?
I'm not saying that at all. Atheism is having no belief in gods, and this whole neutral idea states that you neither believe nor disbelieve, but the moment you stop believing you become an atheist. Neutrality can't exist.
