VanaFest 2012: Celebrating A Decade Of FFXI
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VanaFest 2012: Celebrating a Decade of FFXI
I look more at how Abyssea felt more rewarding. Sure Atmas and Cruor buffs were way over the top, but really, we get nearly the same effect of "superpowers" from infinite Fanatic's Drinks, Perfect Defense, and Embrava.
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I still feel whoever came up with Level Sync killed the Exp party in the first place, then Abyssea blew away the ashes lol
Level sync is fine. The leveling part of Abyssea wasn't what hurt the game. The game became easy mode with atmas. Voidwatch had potential to bring challenge back to the game, but it ended up being easy with temp item spam.
Chrisstreb said: » I still feel whoever came up with Level Sync killed the Exp party in the first place, then Abyssea blew away the ashes lol Nah, Abyssea killed the exp party...but what's done is done, can't go back now. Like I said, the death of traditional exp party really had no negative effect on the game.
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SE had been trying to accelerate the leveling up process well before abyssea with all of those smexy xp rings. Pretty sure they could sense the playerbase was tired of spending months killing collibri just to get a job to the level cap, especially if it was a job other than DRG/RNG/SAM/COR/BRD/RDM/PLD/WHM. Even tho abyssea kind of overdid it, I definitely do not miss those days.
Odin.Tsuneo said: » Like I said, the death of traditional exp party really had no negative effect on the game. Agreed. People act like the boring grind to 75 was what made XI a great game, and then Abyssea took it away. EXPing in abyssea is actually really fun. More so than traditional parties. You actually feel like you're getting rewarded for the time you put in rather than spending 3 hours and getting nothing out of it.
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It's a bit iffy for me. I don't enjoy leveling constantly. At the same time I sometimes miss the old school leveling. At least at the speed of those qufim or east ronfaure[s] parties.
Leveling was a large part of the game's daily "activity" that is for the most part, cut out. Now there aren't enough events for our maxed out jobs. Asura.Kowen said: » Odin.Tsuneo said: » Like I said, the death of traditional exp party really had no negative effect on the game. Agreed. People act like the boring grind to 75 was what made XI a great game, and then Abyssea took it away. I think it's because people like speed leveling but going from 10k to 200k/hour or something is such a huge leap. Carbuncle.Ambivalent said: » EXPing in abyssea is actually really fun. More so than traditional parties. You actually feel like you're getting rewarded for the time you put in rather than spending 3 hours and getting nothing out of it. Ragnarok.Agerknux said: » It's a bit iffy for me. I don't enjoy leveling constantly. At the same time I sometimes miss the old school leveling. At least at the speed of those qufim or east ronfaure[s] parties. Leveling was a large part of the game's daily "activity" that is for the most part, cut out. Now there aren't enough events for our maxed out jobs. I'm sure this new expansion is going to fix that. Asura.Kowen said: » Odin.Tsuneo said: » Like I said, the death of traditional exp party really had no negative effect on the game. Agreed. People act like the boring grind to 75 was what made XI a great game, and then Abyssea took it away. Grind to 75 made alot of people better at their jobs, know how to gear and properly play it. But these days alot seriously suck lol. Majority of mages are just terrible. The blms were much more smarter with the learn to play groove. But these blms can't even stun something so damn hard to miss.
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I don't agree; people always sucked. People just blend in more now with easier to obtain gear.
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Siren.Novadragon said: » Asura.Kowen said: » Odin.Tsuneo said: » Like I said, the death of traditional exp party really had no negative effect on the game. Agreed. People act like the boring grind to 75 was what made XI a great game, and then Abyssea took it away. Grind to 75 made alot of people better at their jobs, know how to gear and properly play it. But these days alot seriously suck lol. Majority of mages are just terrible. The blms were much more smarter with the learn to play groove. But these blms can't even stun something so damn hard to miss. I don't think grinding makes people better. I agree that standing half-afk in an Abyssea party doesn't teach you anything either, but facerolling Colibri for 100's of hours certainly isn't necessary to learn how to play the game. A lot of high level encounters don't play out like EXP party fights either. Remora.Brain said: » I hope we get more Cop/ToAH and LESS Abyssea. Whoever made abyssea should be canned. The superpowers obsoleted gear, skill, mp management, and anything that wasn't engage, WS macro, or Cure V. And while the ability to have 3 atma's in abyssea rendered the area kinda easymode, you're overlooking level difference, heroes and scars are lv 80 and 85 content, when lv90 cap rolled around, we were 5-10 levels above its designated content level. The same thing is happening in VW, have you done Voidwrought/Celaeno/Hahava lately? Its not the garbage VW atmacites that are making those fights significantly easier, its the fact they're lv 90 content being done by lv99's. Honestly not that hard to learn a new job. Bad players will always be bad, just now the bad players are now able to show up in "end game" type of events.
Siren.Novadragon said: » Asura.Kowen said: » Odin.Tsuneo said: » Like I said, the death of traditional exp party really had no negative effect on the game. Agreed. People act like the boring grind to 75 was what made XI a great game, and then Abyssea took it away. Grind to 75 made alot of people better at their jobs, know how to gear and properly play it. But these days alot seriously suck lol. Majority of mages are just terrible. The blms were much more smarter with the learn to play groove. But these blms can't even stun something so damn hard to miss. Grinding to 75 taught you how to pull. Endless grind on trash mobs wasn't any preparation for any events. When you hit 75 everything changed completely in terms of merits, gear and events. Siren.Novadragon said: » Asura.Kowen said: » Odin.Tsuneo said: » Like I said, the death of traditional exp party really had no negative effect on the game. Agreed. People act like the boring grind to 75 was what made XI a great game, and then Abyssea took it away. Grind to 75 made alot of people better at their jobs, know how to gear and properly play it. Phoenix.Morier said: » Siren.Novadragon said: » Asura.Kowen said: » Odin.Tsuneo said: » Like I said, the death of traditional exp party really had no negative effect on the game. Agreed. People act like the boring grind to 75 was what made XI a great game, and then Abyssea took it away. Grind to 75 made alot of people better at their jobs, know how to gear and properly play it. Ya but not alot of them. There were plenty of professional linkshells all over FFXI lol. Bahamut.Airget said: » Yes don't knock Tanaka, keep in mind FFXI wuould prolly not exist without him so yea, you always got to the take the good with the bad lol. Hopefully his health issues aren't to bad, but from everything I've heard at Vanafest it does show they are passionate about what they do, but they are passionate to a fault in the sense that they are to stubborn to change the ideas they enjoy lol. But ya let's try and not sound dickish in the fact that he's leaving and respect all that he's done for the game, even if there are things you may not have agreed with you still have to remember he's one of the minds that made FF a reality. Just take a look at all he's done for SE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiromichi_Tanaka So ya I just hope we don't see a lot of childish responses about him leaving cause seriously he's one of the people that made the series possible without the group as a whole it's possible that the concept of FF could never have existed. I agree, but lemme correct you for a sec. The concept of FF was created by Hironobu Sakaguchi. Tanaka is just the guy in the lead position for the online FFs. There were a lot of nubs at 75 who grinded their way there in 2k/hr parties.
Certain jobs had to do a lot more in xp parties than others. The puller and the mage definitely worked the hardest, a great rdm really stood out and was appreciated for their effort. The DD had to be serviceable enough to keep the chain going which led to certain jobs being favored over others. Did it make some people better sure, but there were still noobs. Like I said, dont miss those days.
Shiva.Viciousss said: » Certain jobs had to do a lot more in xp parties than others. The puller and the mage definitely worked the hardest, a great rdm really stood out and was appreciated for their effort. The DD had to be serviceable enough to keep the chain going which led to certain jobs being favored over others. Did it make some people better sure, but there were still noobs. Like I said, dont miss those days. I certainly miss the good old FFXI. Where you actually had to work for your decent gear. Getting the top notch gear you had to be mostly a good player with the right jobs. That had nothing to do with killing collibri
The thing is, exp parties were never really about developing your class, or advancing your knowledge or skill with it as you were introduced to new abilities or spells. Exp parties were always about efficiency, hence why for the past 10 years it's been a swinging pendulum between Crab Fantasy XI, Bird Fantasy XI, and now Red Sky Fantasy XI. Killing hundreds upon hundreds of the same mobs doesn't make you a better player, and neither does leeching or getting carried. What makes a great player is patience, and a will to learn and understand what makes their class of choice perform optimally with various given situations.
So again, the death of the traditional EXP party was not a bad thing. Although it certainly widened the gap and made it more readily apparent which players were competent and which were idiots.
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Old EXP served its purpose, letting you get used to playing jobs and learning its traits as they came along, instead of 99 then try to learn.
Also, Abyssea killed the economy for low and mid level gear. Any battle system with "superpowers" is just stupid. Some Buffs are and a few temps is fine, but Abyssea and VW got ridiculous. Original Nyzul was a good example.
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You know what really caused people to learn their jobs, and ultimately weeded out alot of people from the game since they realized they couldn't cut it and it wasn't meant for them?
Maat fights. Depending on the job they cleared it on was all you usually needed to know what degree of competence someone had with the game. You knew a person that beat him as RDM first and you realized they were either stupidly lucky or very skilled, but you'd want them regardless to come RDM unless they were better at a different job. Anywho, just a question of curious person, but any chance there's a translated version of Tanaka's farewell speech at VanaFest 2012? Lakshmi.Chilzen said: » You know what really caused people to learn their jobs, and ultimately weeded out alot of people from the game since they realized they couldn't cut it and it wasn't meant for them? Maat fights. Depending on the job they cleared it on was all you usually needed to know what degree of competence someone had with the game. You knew a person that beat him as RDM first and you realized they were either stupidly lucky or very skilled, but you'd want them regardless to come RDM unless they were better at a different job. Anywho, just a question of curious person, but any chance there's a translated version of Tanaka's farewell speech at VanaFest 2012? I agree, and sadly because things have come down to being carried to the cap and subsequently playing catch up, the gap of competent players and those unworthy of their own level has widened significantly. People would scream bloody murder, but I think it'd be nice to have maat/leader fights be a requirement to breech 70 for any job taken up to that point instead of just a singular fight proving one's worth to have all jobs beyond 70. Old PTs never taught you to kite mobs while picking off adds. Old PTs never taught your group to reposition at particular HP% values. Old PTs never taught you to rotate Garudas for tanking a mob. Old PTs never equipped you with the movement sensibility needed to handle unstunnable mobs.Old PTs didn't prepare you for handling fights extending beyond 5min. It's a fact that said PTs miss a good portion of crucial EG tactics.
So what was the benefit? Pulling?! Only for certain classes and even that is overrated for most EG activities. The best "teacher" for that is windower's distance program and research about what a mob aggros. Stunning is the only one I'll give you and even that depended on how early you joined the game. Experience with stunning was most prevalent after the release of COP areas and Gustav Tunnel. Otherwise, most mobs weren't worth stunning or simply weren't stunned because convention did not demand BLMs or DRKs to do so. The worst part of the old system that the marginalization of less welcomed classes simultaneously led to over appreciation of certain players. Namely, people were willing to put up with trash BRD or trash RDM merely because they often meant the difference between 3kXP/hr and none. Of course, if you dare speak up and tell the mage to get his or her act together, the PT becomes pissed at you when you drive away your main healer after hours of looking for members. How can leveling during that era perpetuate good performance when desired classes catch a major break while less desired classes (DRG) have to bust their *** to accommodate inherent differences in damage capacity and PT desirability? That's utterly absurd.
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