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Voidwatch FC: Weakness System Adjustments
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 117
By Lakshmi.Prinnysmash 2012-04-02 21:22:05
Lakshmi.Prinnysmash said: »Using two blus to set every spell is wasting 2 slots. Wait 60 seconds for the one blu to change spells and deal with it.
riiight because a blu that's blocking up the proc list by needing to change spels multiple times is good game design.
last night on Aello blu fire came, while proccing that blu light came up which i didnt have set. So about 10 more seconds to finish proccing fire, swap out earth put in light, wait a minute.
while waiting for spells to cool earth and ice came up, neither of which i had on, so finish waiting for cool, proc light, take off light and wind, set earth and ice, begin waiting.
coulda been onto other procs for other jobs like 5 minutes ago keeping him locked up, but yeah i guess waiting 60 seconds each time is the fun part?
brilliant
Being in a group that needs the blu to proc every NQ weakness to win is not something I want to be a part of.
I'm not saying I like things the way they are, I'm just saying a blu who spends 60 set points on proc spells is a waste of space so...
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19431
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-04-02 21:23:36
One spell per element would be ideal. Optimal effectiveness as it stands now is either bringing 2 BLUs to share the brunt of the spells, or one BLU that can not set them all at once. In both situations, neither BLU should be expected to be forgoing all of their set points for proc spells. Have gone over it several times in the past, but needless to say, BLU's damage output outweighs the few extra seconds that you save, on average, by setting extra sets of spells.
Making the BLU waste time on NQ procs is stupid as *** too. Any job really.
This is what BLU should be doing, activating boss status.
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 Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-04-02 21:33:33
My BLU is shitty, so the few times I've gone BLU I just herped while I derped and set all the spells I could.
I tend to agree with Proth though on how it SHOULD be done :<
 Cerberus.Tidis
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3927
By Cerberus.Tidis 2012-04-02 21:43:37
I do go for NQ BLU procs just because I can melee while I'm setting the spells, melee well the I'm waiting for the spells to set and melee while I try the spells (see a pattern there?)
As has been stated, 1 spell per element would be ideal, it would allow to set some good job traits and have all the proc spells, 2 spells per element would be too much and kill the BLU's DD potential unless you bring 2 with you.
Lakshmi.Kolvar
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 163
By Lakshmi.Kolvar 2012-04-02 21:45:16
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Making the BLU waste time on NQ procs is stupid as *** too. Any job really.
This is what BLU should be doing, activating boss status.
So when you are full on NQ procs, is that time for people to waste time on procing stuff?
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19431
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-04-02 21:46:32
NQ procs are worthless at any time. Only exception is if you get something easy like WAR or DRK abilities which can be procced quickly and act as a clutch stun.
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Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-04-02 21:51:24
IDK, Cycling NQ procs is enough to keep you going on the newer T2 fights (Morta/Bismarck).
In my experiences, you almost always end up cycling NQs on Bismarck.
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Carbuncle.Enuyasha
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 262
By Carbuncle.Enuyasha 2012-04-02 22:36:13
i honestly would like to set 1 spell/1 element...they did it with abyssea...why the hell would they make us do it all over again for Voidwatch...that extra damage from having 2 BLU's split 4 single spells instead of 4 groups of 4 spells would get fights done WAY faster during blitzes -.-'
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 Ragnarok.Eriina
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 294
By Ragnarok.Eriina 2012-04-03 00:14:46
its always gonna depend on the mob. The example i made isnt an idea situation, blu doesnt usually get that many procs in a row. Sometimes a mob goes down super fast, sometimes you really need to get procs NQ or otherwise because HQ all stacked up on bst and pup it just depends.
No matter how huge your e-peen is or what is "stupid as ***" it doesnt change the fact that the proc system for blu could have used some streamlining along the lines other jobs got to allow them to proc AND play effectively without sacfrificing one or the other...
Bismarck.Helel
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1335
By Bismarck.Helel 2012-04-03 00:45:11
Not getting NQ procs just because they're NQ is a really dumb idea. If you time the proc correctly (and have the appropriate KIs) you can get a red proc instead, refreshing all temps and staggering the mob for 20s. This is extremely important on certain NMs like the dvergr that can destroy you very quickly if you do not continually stagger them.
If nothing else, you proc NQ procs just to cycle the procs around too. If you refuse to proc a certain NQ proc, you're now automatically down to 5 procs, some of which you may or may not be able to get.
 Ramuh.Yarly
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 802
By Ramuh.Yarly 2012-04-03 00:52:04
I can understand ignoring an NQ proc when it's something like staff and the other procs are like great axe 3.
But sitting around with full nq procs and trying to zerg with no temps due to refusing to hit the nq procs sounds like a stupid idea and a waste of time.
By Fupafighters 2012-04-03 01:32:05
The only time you should be making people do NQ procs, is if they are JA, or you are running out of options to proc with. Sacrificing a mnk or 2 that could be zerging to stagger a NQ club is just silly. I have seen alot of fights go to 15% and then people start dying because 3-4 people were after NQ procs instead of just zerging. Waste of time for the most part (from my 500+ VW kills)....just saying. That's my opinion.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19431
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-04-03 02:48:38
The only time you should be making people do NQ procs, is if they are JA, or you are running out of options to proc with. Sacrificing a mnk or 2 that could be zerging to stagger a NQ club is just silly. I have seen alot of fights go to 15% and then people start dying because 3-4 people were after NQ procs instead of just zerging. Waste of time for the most part (from my 500+ VW kills)....just saying. That's my opinion.
This. Forcing someone to equip a nonstandard weapon or otherwise dispose themselves ineffectively is ridiculous. You can say that NQs are helpful when you can't hit an HQ, but that doesn't happen as often as people like to say it does. Wasting time and resources on an NQ proc when you could be utilizing those resources more efficiently is absurd.
On the couple of fights that last long enough for HQ procs to cycle around enough and have a decent chance at becoming unhittable are a different story, however for Voidwatch as a whole it is a stupid idea to be wasting resources on inferior procs.
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Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-04-03 02:54:52
I had a Morta that was EX Ladybug, HQ Fire Wyvern, HQ Ice Wyvern, NQ PUP, NQ Automaton.
Carbuncle.Enuyasha
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 262
By Carbuncle.Enuyasha 2012-04-03 02:58:58
at this point im not arguing "usefullness of procz" but im saying that BLU shouldnt have to have 12 spells to set for procing only for 4 elements ._. it should be 1:1 proc:element ._.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19431
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-04-03 03:01:42
That's a given and is how it should have been from the beginning. You'd think they'd have learned from Abyssea, but they did not. They instead made it even worse than that.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 525
By Asura.Leonlionheart 2012-04-03 03:11:39
To extrapolate on VW NQ proccing:
The only way VW works as it does with fanatics, is because DDs can TP burn down NMs within a matter of minutes, during which time the NM is mostly either terrorized, or the DDs have fanatics up. The only way to really wipe a VW is to have both bad proccers, and even more so bad DDs.
Let's say you're playing DRK, and Great Sword V comes up. Instead of using Resolution, you'll be using a WS that deals 5~50% of the damage Reso does, 6, 7, even 8 times instead of doing 8 Resos. You're losing out on potentially thousands of damage just for a chance at a random item.
Bottom line: No main party DD, or any other DD but especially not those in the COR+BRD party, should ever have to do NQ procs, barring extreme situations on prolonged fights. Additionally, they should never switch to inferior weapons just to do NQ procs. It's a good way to wipe a run on T6 Jeuno and the newer VW.
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Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 126
By Odin.Maddii 2012-04-03 03:48:49
another question, but kinda important: to enter the final VW boss, the 3 petrifact KI´s are needed. does that mean everyone in the alliance needs to have all 3 or only one person(which then initiates the fight)?
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-04-03 03:50:23
Everyone needs them, I think. Everyone loses them, and you need all 3 to initiate.
Lakshmi.Rearden
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1130
By Lakshmi.Rearden 2012-04-03 03:54:17
The only proc Warrior has is Ukko's Fury.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 26
By Bismarck.Gloryseeker 2012-04-03 04:06:46
thief ja 5 i will rofl hard when it happens.
Carbuncle.Enuyasha
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 262
By Carbuncle.Enuyasha 2012-04-03 04:30:09
Everyone needs them, I think. Everyone loses them, and you need all 3 to initiate. i want...do..now...only thing in my way is kalasutrax D:
btw: are the crystal weapon chest rates abysmally low....cause i want my 48.something cure potency on PLD...and i want it now
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-04-03 04:36:31
IDK, we timed out at ~30%.
It doesn't have a HP bar.
Carbuncle.Enuyasha
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 262
By Carbuncle.Enuyasha 2012-04-03 04:37:11
IDK, we timed out at ~30%. It doesn't have a HP bar. crystal shinryu...i knew it ;_;
Bismarck.Helel
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1335
By Bismarck.Helel 2012-04-03 06:08:26
The only proc Warrior has is Ukko's Fury.
The only use warrior has is to proc.
 Carbuncle.Lynxblade
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1654
By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2012-04-03 06:54:25
so does this mean no am2 weakness for blm's?
Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6137
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2012-04-03 07:10:31
Old NMs still proc to all the merit JAs/Spells/etc. So you can't change your merits, but NIN is only good for Katana procs in Providence.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3012
By Fenrir.Leoheart 2012-04-03 07:21:43
What's the name of that Dragon~?
Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6137
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2012-04-03 07:30:51
Provenance Watcher
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-04-17 14:05:27
| 04-16-2012 07:45 PM | | Rukkirii | | Community Rep |  |
| Greetings,
Mocchi was able to speak to the dev. team to clarify a few things in regards to the Voidwatch Final Chapter regarding loot and weaknesses.
A player asked whether or not drop rates would be affected by Treasure Hunter, which caused some strategies to be changed around when compared to previous chapters. We can say that yes, Treasure Hunter does have an effect on loot drop rates and we plan on further increasing gear drop rates on top of this as well.
Some players suggested that we remove the low quality drops, or “useless” items, from the rewards at the end. We aren’t providing those lower tier rewards to cause players to be upset, and it is possible for us make it so those drops are removed and no item drops in their place instead.
However, if we were to replace certain items that are perceived as useless, with no drop players may feel that the loot system is bugged when they don’t receive any reward. As such, we would like to provide some sort of drop each time. Also, we have received many comments asking that the items dropped are improved slightly, but we have no plans to make any adjustments at the moment. We feel that we have to draw a line somewhere, or else the requests would begin to get out of hand. As such, we will maintain our current system.
We understand those that would like the drop rates of scrolls to be raised, but we consider gear to be the main aspect of rewards from the final chapter of Voidwatch. Since Arise and Meteor can be obtained through other content, we will maintain their current drop rates.
Weaknesses
Beastmaster
It seems like opinions are split on call beasts. Seems like there are bit more calls for Gerard to be used, but we would like to continue to receive feedback.
Puppetmaster
For PUP’s weakness, we’re considering using “Strobe” as their trigger.
What about implementing weakness regardless of specific pets, avatars or automaton frames?
We didn’t touch on this last time, but in terms of this function, it will be implemented. However, we have to consider if it is acceptable to place weaknesses on support jobs when it comes to adding weaknesses to SMNs and PUPs.
To explain what we are trying to accomplish: we want to offer an exploitable weakness from the player’s pet/avatar/automaton at a certain rate if they use a special ability. Basically, we’re not trying to make it so “certain abilities will always result in a weakness trigger.” The reason is that it would be too difficult to manage which abilities are used in which situation when also needing to consider weaknesses in battle. | |
| 03-30-2012 01:53 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep |  |
| I have quite a bit of information to share regarding adjustments to the weakness system for the final chapter of Voidwatch.
Mizuki Ito said: Hello. Director Mizuki Ito here.
For the final chapter of Voidwatch, we are currently revamping the effects of weakness exploitation as well as weakness options. Below I will explain about the plans for each adjustment and specific adjustment content.
Effect of weakness exploitation revamps
Currently, the main objective of exploiting weaknesses has been to gain temporary items, but we would like to improve this and make the actual action of exploiting a weakness elicit an effect that is advantageous in battle (weakening a monster’s attack).The severity of the effect will be larger with the amount of “!” weaknesses hit, with the maximum gains coming from weakness exploits with “!!!!!”.
Weakness option revamps
Based on feedback, we are working on improving this aspect, with focus on those options that are difficult to exploit weaknesses.
Specifically for the current adjustments, we will be revamping the below, focusing on abilities and spells acquired via merit points as well as special abilities of pets.
- Removal of abilities/spells acquired via merit points
We will be removing these from the weakness options due to the large effects it is eliciting on restricting the freedom of how players can spend their merit points. - Weakness adjustments related to pet’s special abilities
With the limited number of options available for pets as well as the frequency of use when compared to other jobs, it is more difficult to exploit weaknesses. Therefore, in order to improve this aspect, we will be adjusting this by focusing on refinement.
The below outlines the adjustments for each pet.
- Familiars
Consolidated to the special ability “Sheep Charge”(Sheep).
(This was chosen based on pet level, amount of HP, attack power, and jug cost.) - Wyverns
Breath will be removed as an option.
While wyverns will lose the special ability for weakness, dragoon job abilities can be utilized. - Avatars
Consolidated to one option for each avatar.
- Carbuncle: Holy Mist
- Fenrir: Lunar Bay
- Ifrit: Fire IV
- Shiva: Blizzard IV
- Garuda: Aero IV
- Titan: Stone IV
- Ramuh: Thunder IV
- Leviathan: Water IV
- Diabolos: Night Terror
- Automaton
Consolidated to the special ability “Armor Shatterer” (Sharpshot frame).
(This was chosen based on the fact that it is possible to attack from long-distance without getting close.)
- Adjustments for other job abilities
- Replace Bounty Shot with Shadowbind
- Replace Modus Veritas with Libra
- Addition of Bully to weakness options
※For each option that will be removed, we will be replacing it with a spell or ability for that same job, and we will be doing our best so that ratio in which each job can exploit weakness does not change.
(We will only be reducing the number of options and will make it so that the utility of that job is not reduced.)
In regards to these revamps for the weakness effects and weakness options, based on feedback for the final chapter, we would like to continue making adjustments and ultimately reflect these changes in the previous chapters of Voidwatch.
Finally, in regards to adjustment progress, as long as everything continues to go smoothly, we estimate that we will be able to implement the above content.
By all means, please give us your feedback on these adjustments as well as feedback after implementation. |
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| 04-16-2012 07:45 PM | | Rukkirii | | Community Rep | |
| Greetings,
Mocchi was able to speak to the dev. team to clarify a few things in regards to the Voidwatch Final Chapter regarding loot and weaknesses.
A player asked whether or not drop rates would be affected by Treasure Hunter, which caused some strategies to be changed around when compared to previous chapters. We can say that yes, Treasure Hunter does have an effect on loot drop rates and we plan on further increasing gear drop rates on top of this as well.
Some players suggested that we remove the low quality drops, or “useless” items, from the rewards at the end. We aren’t providing those lower tier rewards to cause players to be upset, and it is possible for us make it so those drops are removed and no item drops in their place instead.
However, if we were to replace certain items that are perceived as useless, with no drop players may feel that the loot system is bugged when they don’t receive any reward. As such, we would like to provide some sort of drop each time. Also, we have received many comments asking that the items dropped are improved slightly, but we have no plans to make any adjustments at the moment. We feel that we have to draw a line somewhere, or else the requests would begin to get out of hand. As such, we will maintain our current system.
We understand those that would like the drop rates of scrolls to be raised, but we consider gear to be the main aspect of rewards from the final chapter of Voidwatch. Since Arise and Meteor can be obtained through other content, we will maintain their current drop rates.
Weaknesses
Beastmaster
It seems like opinions are split on call beasts. Seems like there are bit more calls for Gerard to be used, but we would like to continue to receive feedback.
Puppetmaster
For PUP’s weakness, we’re considering using “Strobe” as their trigger.
What about implementing weakness regardless of specific pets, avatars or automaton frames?
We didn’t touch on this last time, but in terms of this function, it will be implemented. However, we have to consider if it is acceptable to place weaknesses on support jobs when it comes to adding weaknesses to SMNs and PUPs.
To explain what we are trying to accomplish: we want to offer an exploitable weakness from the player’s pet/avatar/automaton at a certain rate if they use a special ability. Basically, we’re not trying to make it so “certain abilities will always result in a weakness trigger.” The reason is that it would be too difficult to manage which abilities are used in which situation when also needing to consider weaknesses in battle. | |
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