Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Your description more closely resembles Agnosticism, but yea.
I may be way too tired to think right, but I think you either just described 'deism' or 'Spinoza's God'
Atheists Get Place Of Worship??
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Atheists get place of worship??
I thought agnosticism was the belief in a higher power but without subscribing to whats already out there. I may be way too tired to think right, but I think you either just described 'deism' or 'Spinoza's God' Honestly wonder if people know who the great man in your avatar is/was, Xueye. A shame that many don't.
Dafuq
Lakshmi.Flavin said: » Valefor.Prothescar said: » Your description more closely resembles Agnosticism, but yea. I thought agnosticism was the belief in a higher power but without subscribing to whats already out there. also be careful with spinoza. his work was a precursor to deism, but he wasn't a deist. he specifically left points in his grand theory that God bled through into the knowable universe to interact with certain prophets, and he believed that organized religion was necessary to teach people ethics; if they could not reason it out for themselves. he was an advocate for freedom of religion. I'd like to quote stephen colbert
They criticize what you say but they never give you credit for how loud you say it. He just wants tax exempt status.
Lakshmi.Flavin said: » What makes a man great? Read Hitchens and you'll see why he's held in high regard by many. I didn't agree with everything he argued but some of his points were just so eloquently made and well constructed. Oh and he was never afraid to ruffle some feathers on either side of the spirituality debate.
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I'm an atheist and while I believe in a lot of your arguments about worship and religion on this topic, I disagree that we shouldn't have a church of some kind(even though it's paradoxical and silly). Here's why; A lot of popular Atheist Youtube channels are having videos removed because denouncing religions based off science is becoming "hate speech". If there was a "religion of the mind" or "Atheistic Church" we could be respected enough to not have our view points silenced.
I don't get it. Christians are allowed to post videos and spout off about how I'm going to burn in hell, or muslims saying that we need to convert or they're going to kill us, but hey, that's their religious freedom ^_~! Yet we voice our opinions and are silenced...There is definitely a certain appeal to having a church or a religion. All that aside if the world were a smarter place we wouldn't need something like that to protect our rights...but hey...the worlds a stupid place. Siren.Finality said: » I'm an atheist and while I believe in a lot of your arguments about worship and religion on this topic, I disagree that we shouldn't have a church of some kind(even though it's paradoxical and silly). Here's why; A lot of popular Atheist Youtube channels are having videos removed because denouncing religions based off science is becoming "hate speech". If there was a "religion of the mind" or "Atheistic Church" we could be respected enough to not have our view points silenced. Link? The only thing I could find is some random channel got suspended because some people did a flagging campaign reporting the channel for doing something wrong. I think he's talking about the filing of fake DMCAs to Youtube that has happened on occasion to videos of people speaking out against theistic claims.
Lakshmi.Jesi said: » Siren.Finality said: » I'm an atheist and while I believe in a lot of your arguments about worship and religion on this topic, I disagree that we shouldn't have a church of some kind(even though it's paradoxical and silly). Here's why; A lot of popular Atheist Youtube channels are having videos removed because denouncing religions based off science is becoming "hate speech". If there was a "religion of the mind" or "Atheistic Church" we could be respected enough to not have our view points silenced. Link? The only thing I could find is some random channel got suspended because some people did a flagging campaign reporting the channel for doing something wrong. http://coffeelovingskeptic.com/?p=1279 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1ho8tunttg http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/youtube/thread?tid=2eb67ede66d4252c&hl=en http://news.yahoo.com/youtubes-censorship-religiously-offensive-material-evil-225200304.html etc Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » I think he's talking about the filing of fake DMCAs to Youtube that has happened on occasion to videos of people speaking out against theistic claims. New policy to treat religious criticism as hate speech. It's being reconsidered after widespread backlash. See, to me the idea of being an atheist is not so much about adamantly denying the existence of supernatural deities, but rather emphasizing on the fact that we are human and are results of observable, tangible and evident biological advances both physically and mentally.
There's countless subdivisions when it comes to theism and atheism, whether it be one's moral compass or even methods of monetary gain, but I think what it all comes down to is: Are we okay without God? Or do you require the self-inflicted comfort zone of his/her/it's existence to justify your thoughts and/or actions? Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: » Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » I think he's talking about the filing of fake DMCAs to Youtube that has happened on occasion to videos of people speaking out against theistic claims. New policy to treat religious criticism as hate speech. It's being reconsidered after widespread backlash. Wow, I've been out of the loop. Time to go read up on this. I've thought of a series of witty things I could post, many aspects, many ways to say how much of an idiocy this is.
But it would be superfluous as my thoughts have already been covered by others. So I'll just say: lol. I don't see how any of this surprises you guys... In our PC culture you can't really say anything negative about someone publicly without backlash...
Not surprising, really. Just annoying how thin everyone's skin has gotten. Bunch of damn crybabies who need something taken down because they can't help but click a link they know is going to make them butthurt...
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That's a pretty deep and interesting post Bimbam. Atheism is just the new flavor of our century that carried over from the end of the last one. When has any sort of philosophical, religious, or national identity not been manipulated for money grubbing and imperial schemes?
Atheism is getting a bandwagon because of so many achievements and our advances in technology in my subjective take. I think it's a pretty natural response to question what has religion and older schools of thought have done for us than what we have done with our own hands and how relevant technology is and how it takes away many of the problems that our ancestors had to worry about leaving room for thought on other issues. The odd thing I find about worship is that defined and emphasized by giving time to doing something and how often that is done in reference to that you are worshiping. It's another parallel in my eyes to doing things for yourself or someone else; what is to be achieved and why it is being done are answers that are probably known prior to doing so and the reason for doing it in the first place. People are either going to be worshiping themselves or someone or something else or some mix in between. Most people are humans in thought and priority before considering anything else in situations and act that way and are easy to take advantage of like in situations such as this which has occurred for thousands of years it's just a new tune to the same old song. Thanks Xueye for those links I also have these ^^
The Amazing Atheist: (Fantastic Channel Highly suggested.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2wSnvk8ic0&list=UUjNxszyFPasDdRoD9J6X-sw&index=1&feature=plcp 1GOD1JESUS: (This video highly pertains to my arguements of why we should have a church of atheism) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOkG_oh-1Fk&feature=related Just curious, not making any judgements or anything, but what would the goal of an atheist church be?
Bismarck.Nevill said: » Just curious, not making any judgements or anything, but what would the goal of an atheist church be? Bismarck.Nevill said: » Just curious, not making any judgements or anything, but what would the goal of an atheist church be? Probably the goal of any gathering of people. Relate, socialize, and discuss their beliefs, regardless of what they are. If the government gives special attention to those who sit around discussing their beliefs, then I'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner. You want a country of religious freedom, free from persecution from all foes, foreign and domestic, and then want the protection of the US government. Welcome to Bismarck.Nevill said: » Just curious, not making any judgements or anything, but what would the goal of an atheist church be? To have the freedom to say what we believe and not be silenced by the excuse of "hate speech" also tax exemptions. Bismarck.Nevill said: » Just curious, not making any judgements or anything, but what would the goal of an atheist church be? Cigars and steak would be nice. Bismarck.Nevill said: » Just curious, not making any judgements or anything, but what would the goal of an atheist church be? Equality for all people regardless of religion, race, or sexual orientation. Women to have freedom over their own bodies. Governments to govern based on basic human rights for all people. Government officials who don't get elected to office because of religious beliefs, but because of good political ideals. That's what I would want, anyways. No more "gays can't marry because my 2,000 year old book who's truthfulness is completely unconfirmable and which is full of questionable morals says so." No more "If you are Muslim get the hell out of America and don't let the door hit you on the way out." No more "If this politician doesn't have the same religious beliefs as me, I will not vote for him." That's what I would work for if there was some sort of weird church for atheists. But yeah, the notion of an atheist church is quite alien to me. Atheism is a religion in the same way that not playing hockey is a sport, or not playing chess is a hobby. And it requires no church. Being an Atheist, I feel like there's nothing wrong with having a place for Atheists to gather together, but I just feel like it should be called something else other than a church. I personally wouldn't go to such a place, but I don't see anything wrong having such a place.
The "Atheist movement" can be just as scary as any "religious movement" has been. Being an atheist is fine and dandy, I'm one. But it's scary when people become Atheists(note the capitalization as if it were a group of people).
Having people gather and find out there are others like them is a good thing, but in this situation I can't see it being a lasting event. After you get past explaining how you became an atheist what more do you have to talk about? The best result would be a group that chooses to "show those religious folk" that atheists can do good in the world too, by visiting nursing homes and doing community work. The worst result(and more likely outcome) is a group that chooses to "show those religious folk" by trying to turn others away from their religion forcefully. The best thing to do is just leave each other alone. If someone confronts you about religion or non-religion, you're welcome to speak about it then, but until then it's better to just keep to yourself and friends.
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Caitsith.Mahayaya said: » The "Atheist movement" can be just as scary as any "religious movement" has been. Being an atheist is fine and dandy, I'm one. But it's scary when people become Atheists(note the capitalization as if it were a group of people). Having people gather and find out there are others like them is a good thing, but in this situation I can't see it being a lasting event. After you get past explaining how you became an atheist what more do you have to talk about? The best result would be a group that chooses to "show those religious folk" that atheists can do good in the world too, by visiting nursing homes and doing community work. The worst result(and more likely outcome) is a group that chooses to "show those religious folk" by trying to turn others away from their religion forcefully. The best thing to do is just leave each other alone. If someone confronts you about religion or non-religion, you're welcome to speak about it then, but until then it's better to just keep to yourself and friends. In the end people are people and they will use whatever means or beliefs they have to further their own personal agendas. Caitsith.Mahayaya said: » The "Atheist movement" can be just as scary as any "religious movement" has been. Being an atheist is fine and dandy, I'm one. But it's scary when people become Atheists(note the capitalization as if it were a group of people). Having people gather and find out there are others like them is a good thing, but in this situation I can't see it being a lasting event. After you get past explaining how you became an atheist what more do you have to talk about? The best result would be a group that chooses to "show those religious folk" that atheists can do good in the world too, by visiting nursing homes and doing community work. The worst result(and more likely outcome) is a group that chooses to "show those religious folk" by trying to turn others away from their religion forcefully. The best thing to do is just leave each other alone. If someone confronts you about religion or non-religion, you're welcome to speak about it then, but until then it's better to just keep to yourself and friends. The movements aren't equal as there is no unifying force, dogmas or eternal convictions that drive secularists to do what they do so to call it as dangerous as a religious movement is incorrect. Someone with a religious belief (the monotheisms to be specific) is commanded to hate a group simply for being who they are yet as an atheist, agnostic, deist or someone outside the monotheisms you are free to choose to hate purely on your own and guess what? You can't run behind some ancient text when people call you out on it. You are left to answer for your actions. You can't tell me that a deity commands you to hate. I see the movement as being no different than LBGT rights or the racial squabbles this country has had over time. Any time a new group decides to fight against the status quo the first claim is that acceptance of this group will be "dangerous". The same thing has been done with blacks, with gays, with catholics, with hispanics and with asians. You may believe that things will end violently but I'll tell you this: If it does, it won't be representative of a group or backed by any texts and that alone sets the atheism/theism apart. It ultimately is an individual choice to be vocal or not on the topic but that won't be stopping the religious right from stripping you of your rights in the meantime. How many bills have reached the state and federal levels pushing the religious viewpoints on abortion/women/prayer again? Tolerance has to come from both sides and as of today it isn't.
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