quint spear apex spam is good for group farm not solo farm. Mobs will use TP moves a lot and most of them are very annoying/damaging for solo player. If you will limit yourself even further with mob selection than you need now in dynamis than you will slow down your farm even more with constant competition.
Plz post what mobs you will farm with sam/dnc with quint spear/apex solo.
Which New Weapon Skills To Merit?
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Which new weapon skills to merit?
As for Julio fiding out Spiral being 3-4% lower than Vsmite I can post this (Motenten is almost never wrong :P )
Motenten said: Here, I'll put together numbers using gear I actually have vs the fake Qilin target (high def, favors crit damage more): Code Code: Shijin: Smite: Thew Bomblet Thew Bomblet Aias Bonnet Shura Aug (4 dex, 2% WSDmg) Gorget Gorget Brutal Brutal Aesir Aesir Tantra +2 Tantra +2 Ochiudo Heafoc Rajas Rajas Epona Epona Atheling Atheling Warwolf Anguinus Byakko Usukane Tantra +2 Tantra +2 Impetus up: Shijin: 1661 Smite: 2078 Impetus down: Shijin: 1595 Smite: 1680 Smite has a 25% lead with Impetus, a 5% lead without. You want stuff like Toci's Harness, Ocelomeh +1 head, Denali +5 feet, etc, to really push Shijin up past Smite. Spharai also help, with the higher base damage and heavy +att (I'm using Vere 90 for both of the above). But yet /dnc just waltz yourself back to full with seigan third eye =D
Following up...
Spiral set, less than 2m in AH goods on Siren, if one accepted perhaps another 2m to buy eponas, or just used rajas or a second jupiters - jupiters would be augmented with 4~6 attack otherwise a thundersoul would be notably better. As comparison, a decent asuran set would be something like... Still not hard, but truth be told, spiral with its huge dex mod overtakes fists fairly easily, making fists much more gear dependant to compete. volkom said: » But yet /dnc just waltz yourself back to full with seigan third eye =D That will be counterproductive vs a little slower tp gain and using less of that TP to cure when using GKT or Polearm. Its not that easy too because im not even talking about damaging TP moves but: Gobbue - paralyze Sheep - slow and sleep Funguars - paralyze and very high dmg at high HP Hippo - Terror and dispel Flys - poison and stats down etc. etc. Bahamut.Atoreis said: » As for Julio fiding out Spiral being 3-4% lower than Vsmite I can post this (Motenten is almost never wrong :P ) Motenten said: Here, I'll put together numbers using gear I actually have vs the fake Qilin target (high def, favors crit damage more): Code Code: Shijin: Smite: Thew Bomblet Thew Bomblet Aias Bonnet Shura Aug (4 dex, 2% WSDmg) Gorget Gorget Brutal Brutal Aesir Aesir Tantra +2 Tantra +2 Ochiudo Heafoc Rajas Rajas Epona Epona Atheling Atheling Warwolf Anguinus Byakko Usukane Tantra +2 Tantra +2 Impetus up: Shijin: 1661 Smite: 2078 Impetus down: Shijin: 1595 Smite: 1680 Smite has a 25% lead with Impetus, a 5% lead without. You want stuff like Toci's Harness, Ocelomeh +1 head, Denali +5 feet, etc, to really push Shijin up past Smite. Spharai also help, with the higher base damage and heavy +att (I'm using Vere 90 for both of the above). Erm....so we go from casual content to top tier VW where crit based WSs have the natural advantage....well done moron, I quoted Julio as he parsed in - oh dear god - dyna bubu. And SAM/DNC quint farm would be ideally qufim doing bats > bats > raptors. Keeping third eye up, proc quickly and mow down. Don't need hasso up to get a good killspeed, and the survivability given from sei/third is obvious. Furthermore SAM/DNC has a B+ eva skill with evasion bonus II trait. Don't ever underestimate how much effect this makes, considering very few mobs will cap, or even come close to capping acc on you, whereas a bst will burn pet food quite often - decreasing from the overall gains. Bahamut.Atoreis said: » volkom said: » But yet /dnc just waltz yourself back to full with seigan third eye =D That will be counterproductive vs a little slower tp gain and using less of that TP to cure when using GKT or Polearm. Its not that easy too because im not even talking about damaging TP moves but: Gobbue - paralyze Sheep - slow and sleep Funguars - paralyze and very high dmg at high HP Hippo - Terror and dispel Flys - poison and stats down etc. etc. And here we go again, choosing the worst situations for a specific setup that outshines basically anything else when used in the right situation. Stop being so desperate to be right. Sam tanking back in the day. Fun stuff
Remember that one Sam that solo ksnm30 desert swarm. With a soboro at 75 cap. Same concept yeh? Siren.Seiri said: » Following up... Spiral set, less than 2m in AH goods on Siren, if one accepted perhaps another 2m to buy eponas, or just used rajas or a second jupiters - jupiters would be augmented with 4~6 attack otherwise a thundersoul would be notably better. As comparison, a decent asuran set would be something like... Still not hard, but truth be told, spiral with its huge dex mod overtakes fists fairly easily, making fists much more gear dependant to compete. Its all cool (beside cuchulain's belt) but its not about Spiral being slightly upg over Asuran with medium set but its about if that slightly upg is worth not meriting other WSs. Like I said its obvious upg if you mainly play MNK but other WSs can benefit other jobs more than Spiral can benefit MNK. I agree you should get Spiral if you mainly play MNK but if you mainly play DNC PLD WAR and MNK than other options might be better. Go 4/5 in all them then
Siren.Seiri said: » Bahamut.Atoreis said: » volkom said: » But yet /dnc just waltz yourself back to full with seigan third eye =D That will be counterproductive vs a little slower tp gain and using less of that TP to cure when using GKT or Polearm. Its not that easy too because im not even talking about damaging TP moves but: Gobbue - paralyze Sheep - slow and sleep Funguars - paralyze and very high dmg at high HP Hippo - Terror and dispel Flys - poison and stats down etc. etc. And here we go again, choosing the worst situations for a specific setup that outshines basically anything else when used in the right situation. Stop being so desperate to be right. You must be kidding me now. I posted only a small portion of mobs that ppl usually farm at dynamis and I wrote that you can probably find mobs that will fits you but thats limiting yourself even more in the time when you are already limited in dynamis by high competition. Also I actually posted some examples and you asked to posts mobs that fits quit spear/apex farm just bypassed it with some nonsense. Please posts a mobs in dynamis that are good for that kind of solo. This is fun. There's always a situational scenario in doing the generic thing won't always work optimally. This is why people got different builds out the ***. Regardless of what status effects the mobs put on you, I think it's fair to say you can probably kill them w.o betting hit by it. But you do run that semi high risk of getting nailed by a status ailment. So... Pick and choose your farming mobs wisely?
Bahamut.Atoreis said: » Siren.Seiri said: » Bahamut.Atoreis said: » volkom said: » But yet /dnc just waltz yourself back to full with seigan third eye =D That will be counterproductive vs a little slower tp gain and using less of that TP to cure when using GKT or Polearm. Its not that easy too because im not even talking about damaging TP moves but: Gobbue - paralyze Sheep - slow and sleep Funguars - paralyze and very high dmg at high HP Hippo - Terror and dispel Flys - poison and stats down etc. etc. And here we go again, choosing the worst situations for a specific setup that outshines basically anything else when used in the right situation. Stop being so desperate to be right. You must be kidding me now. I posted only a small portion of mobs that ppl usually farm at dynamis and I wrote that you can probably find mobs that will fits you but thats limiting yourself even more in the time when you are already limited in dynamis by high competition. Also I actually posted some examples and you asked to posts mobs that fits quit spear/apex farm just bypassed it with some nonsense. Please posts a mobs in dynamis that are good for that kind of solo. Seriously can you read? you even quoted the post that I wrote giving my farm targets: Siren.Seiri said: » And SAM/DNC quint farm would be ideally qufim doing bats > bats > raptors. Keeping third eye up, proc quickly and mow down. Don't need hasso up to get a good killspeed, and the survivability given from sei/third is obvious. Furthermore SAM/DNC has a B+ eva skill with evasion bonus II trait. Don't ever underestimate how much effect this makes, considering very few mobs will cap, or even come close to capping acc on you, whereas a bst will burn pet food quite often - decreasing from the overall gains. My favourite combination for any job, and SAM/DNC spamming apex simply destroys all of these. My mistake on cuchu, don't know why I even used that... Replace with anguin. For the 4 jobs he listed as his 'mains', the least useful WS for those would be sword as PLD already gets atonement - situational, but so is Requiescat. Dagger, Great Sword and H2H would likely be his most useful skills. Siren.Seiri said: » Bahamut.Atoreis said: » As for Julio fiding out Spiral being 3-4% lower than Vsmite I can post this (Motenten is almost never wrong :P ) Motenten said: Here, I'll put together numbers using gear I actually have vs the fake Qilin target (high def, favors crit damage more): Code Code: Shijin: Smite: Thew Bomblet Thew Bomblet Aias Bonnet Shura Aug (4 dex, 2% WSDmg) Gorget Gorget Brutal Brutal Aesir Aesir Tantra +2 Tantra +2 Ochiudo Heafoc Rajas Rajas Epona Epona Atheling Atheling Warwolf Anguinus Byakko Usukane Tantra +2 Tantra +2 Impetus up: Shijin: 1661 Smite: 2078 Impetus down: Shijin: 1595 Smite: 1680 Smite has a 25% lead with Impetus, a 5% lead without. You want stuff like Toci's Harness, Ocelomeh +1 head, Denali +5 feet, etc, to really push Shijin up past Smite. Spharai also help, with the higher base damage and heavy +att (I'm using Vere 90 for both of the above). Erm....so we go from casual content to top tier VW where crit based WSs have the natural advantage....well done moron, I quoted Julio as he parsed in - oh dear god - dyna bubu. And SAM/DNC quint farm would be ideally qufim doing bats > bats > raptors. Keeping third eye up, proc quickly and mow down. Don't need hasso up to get a good killspeed, and the survivability given from sei/third is obvious. Furthermore SAM/DNC has a B+ eva skill with evasion bonus II trait. Don't ever underestimate how much effect this makes, considering very few mobs will cap, or even come close to capping acc on you, whereas a bst will burn pet food quite often - decreasing from the overall gains. Any other mobs beside those? Because liek i said You limiting yourself a lot here. What if there is many ppl on those? I hope you also kidding me about sam killspeed solo being faster than BST+pet. THF pets has higher evasion than your SAM and they hardly get any damage. BSTs tanked several mobs with their pets at 90-95. Both staggering speed and kill speed is much greater on BST than seigan /dnc SAM. Yuly can indeed tank multiple mobs - but the only healing method is bst food, which does decrease from your overall gains depending on how many you use.
Secondly, proc speed aside for its randomness, a bst can only take a mob from 90%~ to 0 in 10~ seconds when it starts at 100+ tp and pet 100+tp also. SAM/DNC with a true 5 hit quint setup can and should be wiping mobs out within 5~10 seconds of proc every time, depending on how lucky you are with quint strikes. Even if a yuly or the new hippo can hold 5~6 mobs at once, if a SAM/DNC can proc > kill 6 mobs 1v1 more quickly, then which is more practical? TL:DR: The epeen attempt of holding multiple mobs easily does not usually make for a faster farm speed. Epeen = usually a waste of time. Edit: The ONLY thing bst has over SAM/DNC in this regard is TH, and if arguing you need TH, then TH1 trait blu > bst for farm speed (tried and tested, the bst was better geared than my blu also, albet only slightly. As for other mobs, bubu scorps/birds/mandys/rabbits all go down easily, valk dhalmel, sheep, manticores are all weak, haven't tried it in tav, but already this is 3~4 combinations of truly easy mobs to choose from.
I'm aware it's off topic, but wanted to post something I did out of interest with 4 friends. We all farmed 4 times over 4 days, first 3 days we all did the same zone and then the 4th day we chose our favourite zones.
Apologies for the mass of numbers, but its simply done. Results did surprise me a little in that I expected BST to do better than THF at very least. All 5 of us are geared very well, but none are perfect. My reason for bringing this in...of the 5 of us, the one whose setup was easiest to achieve was by far the SAM/DNC, and yet this came second, however far behind the #1 it was. If you're going to be comparing Smite to Shijin for a casual, it should be using 90 Vere vs 99 Strength H2H path as weapons, not 90 Vere vs 90 Vere.
Siren.Seiri said: » Yuly can indeed tank multiple mobs - but the only healing method is bst food, which does decrease from your overall gains depending on how many you use. Secondly, proc speed aside for its randomness, a bst can only take a mob from 90%~ to 0 in 10~ seconds when it starts at 100+ tp and pet 100+tp also. SAM/DNC with a true 5 hit quint setup can and should be wiping mobs out within 5~10 seconds of proc every time, depending on how lucky you are with quint strikes. Even if a yuly or the new hippo can hold 5~6 mobs at once, if a SAM/DNC can proc > kill 6 mobs 1v1 more quickly, then which is more practical? TL:DR: The epeen attempt of holding multiple mobs easily does not usually make for a faster farm speed. Epeen = usually a waste of time. Edit: The ONLY thing bst has over SAM/DNC in this regard is TH, and if arguing you need TH, then TH1 trait blu > bst for farm speed (tried and tested, the bst was better geared than my blu also, albet only slightly. 
Necro Bump Detected!
[100 days between previous and next post]Necro Bump so as not to start a new thread... However this thread is so old the advice is a bit outdated for what I want
I'm looking for a 3rd ws. Currently I have Exenterator, Ruinator and Tachi: Shoa merited. I am thinking of dropping Shoa. I have used it zero times and I cant remember the last time I even played Sam. Further, I figure I will build a Masa if I did decide to pick up the job which, I assume Fudo would hold me over most of the time (since I dont really even use the job). The jobs I play from most to least are: Nin (30-50%) but I have a Kannagi Thf and Dnc (20-30%) already have Exenterator Bst (10%) already have Ruinator Whm and Blm (10-20%) dont plan on meriting a ws for them Blu (5%) I am curious about the usefulness of Requiscat, but I also might work on an Almace Brd (1%) I only use this for VW really and not gonna ws anyway. The rest I hardly get on them except to skill up, but I am working on both Gandiva and Armageddon for Rng and Cor (which I will start using once I have the weapons) So my options look like keeping Shoa or doing something like Requiscat, Last Stand, Apex Arrow or Resolution (if I decide to ever do war, but this is about the same as keeping Shoa). Any opinions on the usefulness of Requiscat and or which ws I should get for my last? Thanks :) If you're going to use Sam, even if you have Masamune you would still want Shoha. But if you're not going to use Sam at all I would suggest Requiescat for Blu if you use it outside, it's the next best WS after CDC and you can self SC with Quad. Continuum. Also has situational use on monsters with damage resistance/shields aka Pil/Invincible.
For the others: I wouldn't really suggest bothering with Apex and just use LS/Armageddon on Rng. Both LS and Requiescat have replicating ftp, making elegorget/belt best in slot for both and Requi not as horrible as first thought (the attack penalty still holds the ws back on harder mobs where you're not benefitting from its unique properties - sometimes even when you do depending on target...). |
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