Which New Weapon Skills To Merit?

Lol...
If you have Veret you shouldnt use Spiral at all, MNK or PUP.
If you dont have Veret then you have Spharai or KKK and you should use Spiral with Spharai or Pummel with KKK.
If you dont have Veret, Spharai or KKK then MNK or PUP are not your main job in which case you probably should choose other WSs.

So not having a mythic makes it a job I don't like.....Oh I get it now... wtf kind of crack are you smoking?

Your right. 6000 is 6000

I've watched resolution land for 9k from a Ragnarok dark on it. Its rare but possible.

why is everybody to quick to brush over stardiver for sam? i'm 5/5 stardiver and 5/5 shoha on sam (sam main)

rocking a (albiet ghetto) 4hit w/ polearm and im consistantly doing more damage than shoha. granted i'm using 90 masamune and not 99 tp bonus gkt, but even then, its 4hit vs 5hit.

outside in dyna i was doing 2-3k with 4k spikes on stardiver

while shoha was doing 2400ish (still not bad at all)

and fudo was doing 2200 ish (again not bad either imo)

stardiver is just amazing, i'm in love with it. i did 9k spike on brulo with it the other night, was pretty funny to watch my friends all go "wtf" at the same time xD. (inb4 lolabyssea, and inb4 eyeballing.gif) i think i saved some SS pics, i'll have to double check lol.

Which polearm does Captain America approve of, for sam? lol

Ignoring some lines from my post and answering to other wont bring us anywhere really...
As far as I know PUP can use Veret and I wrote that you should have empy OR KKK if you consider PUP as your main job (or one of few main jobs). With any of those weapons you shouldnt use Spiral. If you not consider PUP as one of your main jobs you will most likely do better by choosing other WSs to merit.

And you completely missed the point where I said Pummel is comparable to (and better in some situations than) smite.... so Vere isn't a must have for pup, even taking into account ODD because nothing ever lasts THAT long to where you aren't WS spamming anyways (at least as far as VW is concerned). So I think your argument is still moot >_<

VW is very bad example of your point because ODD actually play very big role there because you can maintain AM3 full time with wings.
Pummel itself can keep up with vsmite but no other weapon beside KKK can keep up or surpass Veret+Vsmite with ODD so your point is mute actually. Also only weapon that can match/beat vsmite (and pummel if you insist it on par with vsmite) with spiral is Spharai. So even if you have no empy.mythic for pup you should be using Pummel over Spiral.

Spiral can rock some good numbers, is all I'm gettin at man. Obviously it's not the best WS, but its (like I said before) FUN to mix in, even though its not the literal strongest.

I tho OP wanted to know what WSs are worth to chose from practical point of view. If he would want to chose them for fun it wouldnt be a problem for him I bet...

For what my opinion is worth, I am loving the club one. I didn't expect much since I'm WHM main and have Hexa Strike but when I looked at it, Hexa is a 20% each MND -and- STR. But Realmrazer, fully merited, hits 80% MND mod, making it useful for WHMs that want to play around and DD.

As far as other ones since most people will LOL WHM DD?!, I'd go for Resolution. I see it pop out amazing numbers at 5/5, average around 4k in Abyssea. Other than those, I haven't seen too much to be impressed by but then again, I haven't been on a whole bunch with people outside my LS. Entropy is great for DRKs that make use of their MP.

How the hell ppl get those random numbers lol...

Ehh I might have been mislead, I couldnt remember the exact number, just what someone answered when I asked 'em.

You might want to check this topic

Atoreis, sorry to burst your bubble a little but...did you actually read ANY of the OP's post? Or are you just one of those morons who can't think outside a small sphere?


And you:


Do you not get the meaning of a casual player? This effectively rules out any chance of having Spharai, even with how easy dynamis is now.

Furthermore, do you not get the meaning of not having an event LS? This effectively rules out any chance of getting certain progress to ward mythic with efficient help, and dropping back to him being casual, he is unlikely to have time to work off PuGs, = no KKK.

And veret, while the easiest option, is not something that can be reliably solo'd by 99% of the player base, and OP has already mentioned that he lacks top end atma, and again - is CASUAL.


On point for OP.

Sword is situational, it has uses for BLU as a chain WS, and also as the second best WS you get after chant, so dont rule it out. Furthermore it bypasses any phys immunities, so good for killing things like flans, jellies and things that use -DT/-PDT.

Great axe and Great sword are both incredibly strong, great sword more so but neither should be ruled out. If main war, I tend to find GA doing more on higher end content, but for lower end GS is king.

As has been said, if you play dnc a lot, the dagger WS is very useful. Exception to this would be if you play dnc is abyssea only, or nearly only, in which case evis. is still notably better.

You say you dont play rng much, so rule out gun - although very powerful, even exceeding it's emp counterparts in certain situations, it would be wasted if not used.

H2H, as has been said, is very potent outside abyssea. Inside, sticking as ascetic's fury is the better option if you have RR atma at very least, and even more so if you have GH.

Axe WS again is very potent outside abys, and if you have an itching to play dual wield war, or especially bst, then its a strong option.

Scythe is a solo tool in any situation you would run out of MP as DRK. To be fairly honest, its mostly a weak option.

Polearm, as has been said, is a strong option. To answer some questions, the damage is about level with drakesbane, assuming a decent drakes set allowing for a decent amount of crits to land on average. Stardiver > Drakesbane chains as well for good SC dmg. Honestly speaking though, if you aren't main drg, or at LEAST main sam, then pass this by as drakes is on par/situationally better.

Katana is a decent WS, but if you arent main NIN then you can do without it.

Great Katana is, as you will have seen and heard, very very potent, easily destroying it's emp counterpart fudo. If you play SAM at ALL, then keep this 5/5, as it blows away any other options besides Kaiten in some situations.

Club is strong, but since the nerf it has lost its overpowering use. While remaining a very strong option for melee WHM, and even blu and pld in situations, you could easily pass this by.

Staff, pretty much the same as club except hasn't been nerfed. If your main job isn't a staff user, then pass this by, you wont miss much.

And finally, archery. Apex is pretty damn powerful to be fair, and is usable by SAM without subbing RNG, which makes for a lot of usage in 'casual' content like dynamis and abyssea. A sam using quint spear and a decent bow can solo a lot of gil in dynamis using this and /dnc, spamming WSs every 5~10 seconds after proc. To be perfectly frank: you wont put out the same numbers as a rng main, honestly you will struggle to come close, but a good set will see you throwing out 2.5k on EM or lower fairly easily. Long story short, for casual content and a decently geared sam, this WS is a truly amazing option.

I realize I'm perpetuating a tangent, but because the underlying point is omni-relevant..

There's no reason that a casual player cannot obtain a Verethragna. Inability to do so is attributable only to irresponsible time management. There's inherent contradiction in asking for a pragmatic analysis of the available WS, while being unwilling to take the appropriate steps to maximize yourself within the confines of your playtime.

You are entirely assuming he can get assistance with this though, and that he currently claims to have few 'good' atma would suggest that his ability to rely on assistance is lower than practical, IMO, to obtain verethranga. However, WoE fists for fake smite are a fully viable option for pure solo, and would allow you to bypass the new H2H WS.

Disagree?

So what makes the monk WS so awesome if you have relic but "lol dont even bother calling yourself a monk main because you dont have a relic/or empy"?

Is the WS crap without relic or something?

BLU SMN SCH PUP(blm frame)

And Ato, your job doesn't need a Mythic/Relic/Empy for you to consider it your main. I consider DRG SMN and PUP my mains, but I have Kannagi for my nin. (As much as I hate to say it, I'm a bandwagon NIN. Only leveled it for soloing walk of echoes coins... Then everyone was all, "Come NIN to tank!" and yeah.)

I'm disinterested in changing any one person's choices on such a fundamental level, but it also begs the question of why he's unable or unwilling to seek partnership in a game that is relatively unforgiving to those who choose to disassociate themselves from the rest of the playerbase. I'm not prepared to tell anyone that their Lone Ranger playstyle is inappropriate, because it's well within their rights, but as I said, pragmaticism isn't isolated.

Not exactly. If you basically ignore what Atoreis says, you don't lose anything.

Spiral is basically asuran fists +2 or so. For actual dmg per WS, its around even with smite outside abys, and inside both smite/ascetics are better.

For a MNK with access to emp, smite to keep up aftermath is a given, and even with fake emp, smite is still generally more useful that spiral, thus making it irrelevant.

The only reason it gets mentioned as relic specific is because relic does not have access to smite, but outparses veret anyway, and outside abys spiral beats any other WS.

For those who ignored Atoreis: Spiral is the #1 WS outside abys assuming you don't have smite. Inside abys you either have smite or use ascetics.

Honestly I do agree with this viewpoint Minjo, but was simply attempting to give the best advice on the entirety of the information he gave. Obviously if he can get even 2 people to assist him, then Veret are, and should be his goal if he deems himself a main mnk.

If you are whm.... Mystic Boon and Hexa strike.. wtf are you meriting that ws for?

Put simply.. there's enough casual players out there where they can pool up together and help each other out. Hence Min is saying, poor time management if you don't at least try for it. It's not hard to even lead a shout group anyone will join who can even obtain 1 +2 an hour... there are those casual players who just play the game and take it as a quest. They couldn't care less about getting the item, more the questing for it.

TLDR; Grab some shout members like himself. Use time efficiently within his means and in at least 1month of playing casual he will obtain a Verethragna.

Why is it so hard to just stick to what hes asking for?

We all know, and im sure he knows, getting an empy would be best for him, you can make a comment on it, and give some advice on it, but leave it at that and move on.

I'll have to amend this slightly. Depending on his playtime, he might only average two hours a day, and it could be fair to say he could, using a PuG method, obtain 2 buds or fangs a day. If you include a couple of days for VNMs and camping regular trials while mostly away, 2 months for a highly casual player to obtain veret is reasonable.

As I also mentioned, this issue is on a fundamental level, and I'm not the least bit interested in tackling a project of that caliber.

Haha... I love how quickly this thread devolved into a borderline personal attack. Thanks to all those who made an attempt at answering my questions... cheers :)

In case you were being serious, Draca couse. Best you can get on sam at the moment sadly :(.

And yes, the cap approves. lol