Pets And PC Treasure Hunter.

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Pets and PC Treasure hunter.
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-10-29 05:03:25
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Ramuh.Austar said: »
To put TH on something, you must make an action on the mob. You can't just be on the hate list.

Which includes indirect interaction through pets. You don't need to perform a single direct action.
I don't know how TH from BST/THF or THF/BST works via pets, but I can tell you right now you won't put TH on something THF/WHM just spamming cures or aggroing something. Only makes sense to take an action on the mob yourself, or in regards to DipperYuly, Yuly does.

Cures are actions on yourself. Fight is an action on an enemy.
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2011-10-29 05:05:16
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Dodu, when she said that she was referring to when you said this: SpoilersV2: putting yourself on the hate list activates whatever level of TH you have

Cures put you on the hate list..but don't activate TH
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-10-29 05:06:51
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I phrased that improperly. Putting yourself on the hate list through a pet command is what I should have said, as the two situations are entirely different. If that's where the mass confusion is coming from, alright, but it doesn't change the answer to the OP's question.
 Leviathan.Bimbam
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By Leviathan.Bimbam 2011-10-29 05:22:29
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Couldn't this all be resolved by a SMN/THF and a RNG testing Bounty shot?
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-10-29 05:39:33
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Unnecessary, just finished testing with Gilfinder. We were all wrong in several ways, but I was wrong in the most pertinent way. Go me.

PUP/THF: Deploy, Maneuvers, Retrieve, and Deactivate all create a type of enmity that doesn't activate job traits. This enmity is unique in that you're completely removed from the enmity list when you Deactivate your automaton

BST/THF: Fight, Sic, Ready, Heel, and Leave all create a type of enmity that doesn't activate job traits. This enmity is unremarkable in that you're now an official occupant of the enmity list

SMN/THF: Assault, Retreat, BP:Ward, and Dismiss all create a type of enmity that doesn't initially activate job traits. BP:Rage always activates job traits, even before you've acted on something directly. SMN is odd in that if your pet is killed or released, any action performed after will create the type of enmity that activates job traits. I.E. Assault, release, resummon while its attacking you, Gilfinder is activated

Edit: adjusted my highlighting a tad. I can't forget to accentuate the best part.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2011-10-29 05:46:05
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The SMN results are strange for sure, but the rest are what I expected.
 Bismarck.Helel
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By Bismarck.Helel 2011-10-29 06:39:47
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Leviathan.Bimbam said: »
Couldn't this all be resolved by a SMN/THF and a RNG testing Bounty shot?

Yes it could, and it would take 2 seconds to do it. It's not rocket science...
 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2011-10-31 17:57:42
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Leviathan.Dodu said: »
SMN/THF: Assault, Retreat, BP:Ward, and Dismiss all create a type of enmity that doesn't initially activate job traits. BP:Rage always activates job traits, even before you've acted on something directly. SMN is odd in that if your pet is killed or released, any action performed after will create the type of enmity that activates job traits. I.E. Assault, release, resummon while its attacking you, Gilfinder is activated
Just a minor correction because SMN hate mechanics are so weird and I spent a lot of time figuring them out. Not sure how much of this applies to other pet jobs.

Assault itself as you found will not create any enmity or put you on any hate list. Assault > Retreat before the avatar takes a swing results in no aggro or anything.

However, as soon as your pet takes one swing at the target, you will be given a strange sort of half-on/half-off the hate list status. You have no enmity, and if someone else intercepts the mob and gets killed, the mob will deaggro instead of coming after you again, so it's almost like you aren't actually on the hate list. However, when you're in that semi-hatelist state, performing self-targeting actions within hate range (about 30 yalms), such as resummoning, will not only put you on the proper hate list but also generate enmity. So you're clearly not off the hate list either. If you're out of hate range, self-targeting actions are still safe.

For example, you can Assault a mob and let your avatar start attacking it, run away to about 40 yalms, cast Stoneskin, Refresh, and whatever else you want, then Release. If someone then intercepted the mob and then died, the mob would still deaggro rather than coming after you. This is the trick that makes Carby-kiting possible. If resummoning Carbuncle each time generated enmity, eventually Carby would have a really hard time pulling hate off the Summoner. By finishing their summon outside the hate range (30 yalms) they can avoid enmity. Carby can even miss his first swing and still pull hate off the SMN because the SMN is not even properly on the hate list even though the mob is claimed.

As far as how all this pertains to TH, I don't know. I just know that the idea of a cut-and-dry "hate list" is not actually that simple. There is, at minimum, three states between aggro-free and having enmity:
1. Aggro, not on hate list.
1. Aggro, not on hate list, but self-targeting actions generate enmity as if you were on the hate list.
2. On the hate list with no enmity, like with NMs that have alliance hate.

Edit/Addendum:
Regarding other abilities aside from Assault, they're fairly normal. Blood Pacts for example are just like using any other JA. They generate immediate hate before the BP even lands. They put you on the proper hate list, etc. However, they only do so for the mob which was targeted.

For example, if you Thunderspark a mob and it hits 3 other mobs, you have only generated enmity on the one you targeted. Your avatar has enmity on all four, but you only have enmity on the one. Releasing will cause only the one to come after you. On the other hand if there is no hate list established and you Thunderspark a mob, the target will come after you for the 3 seconds that Thunderspark takes to land. If other mobs link to your target before Thunderspark lands, those links will be on you rather than your avatar. If you think about it, that's all fairly expected as far as hate mechanics. Assault is the odd one out.
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 Carbuncle.Wulfshadow
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By Carbuncle.Wulfshadow 2011-10-31 18:26:17
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Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Unnecessary, just finished testing with Gilfinder. We were all wrong in several ways, but I was wrong in the most pertinent way. Go me.

PUP/THF: Deploy, Maneuvers, Retrieve, and Deactivate all create a type of enmity that doesn't activate job traits. This enmity is unique in that you're completely removed from the enmity list when you Deactivate your automaton

BST/THF: Fight, Sic, Ready, Heel, and Leave all create a type of enmity that doesn't activate job traits. This enmity is unremarkable in that you're now an official occupant of the enmity list

SMN/THF: Assault, Retreat, BP:Ward, and Dismiss all create a type of enmity that doesn't initially activate job traits. BP:Rage always activates job traits, even before you've acted on something directly. SMN is odd in that if your pet is killed or released, any action performed after will create the type of enmity that activates job traits. I.E. Assault, release, resummon while its attacking you, Gilfinder is activated

Edit: adjusted my highlighting a tad. I can't forget to accentuate the best part.
uploading a video to help explain in just a moment, it's at 5% uploading, stupid youtube :(
 Fenrir.Didgist
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By Fenrir.Didgist 2011-10-31 19:21:14
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Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Edit: Are all of you serious? Where were you before Neo-Dynamis days when thieves were /BLM to TH multiple targets at once?



Yeah, yeah, sample size. See you in an hour.
 
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 Fenrir.Didgist
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By Fenrir.Didgist 2011-10-31 19:32:24
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Bismarck.Josiahkf said: »
could bring a low lvl to guarantee two quadavs of the same name are the same level.

I agree, i'm going to go crazy on Davoi or some other similar zone. That is also an excellent idea, thanks.
 Carbuncle.Wulfshadow
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By Carbuncle.Wulfshadow 2011-10-31 19:57:16
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Fenrir.Skadoosh said: »
i do it errday kk
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 Phoenix.Morier
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By Phoenix.Morier 2011-10-31 20:11:48
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Love the music.
 Fenrir.Didgist
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By Fenrir.Didgist 2011-10-31 20:17:14
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Carbuncle
 Carbuncle.Flionheart
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By Carbuncle.Flionheart 2011-10-31 20:21:56
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28
 Carbuncle.Wulfshadow
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By Carbuncle.Wulfshadow 2011-10-31 20:24:08
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Carrot
 Siren.Mallicard
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By Siren.Mallicard 2011-10-31 21:24:50
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Carbuncle.Wulfshadow said: »
Fenrir.Skadoosh said: »
i do it errday kk


Think this is a case of Pics and it didnt happen.
 Shiva.Mohit
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By Shiva.Mohit 2011-11-01 10:59:38
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Speaking of Dipper. How do we know Dipper gives TH? I guess you can sick DY and then bounty shot too. They saw an increase in TH? or is just a cool Fad right now?