In Need Of AMAZING War Spellcast Q.q

Uhhhhhhhh, what?

SE knows everyone uses third party tools.

Natenn doesn't, right Ironguy?

Nvm, Iron passed out apparently. What a loser.

He also doesn't use his almace.

got the moonshade like a day or 2 after the update that addded it when not much was known about it just havnt found anyone on the fight aside from the people i did it with wich a few quit the game anyways. was seeing if it affected VS at all but eh havnt seen ***so was goin to toss it soon. any suggestions whould be helpfull for replacements

yep spellcast takes away the need to hit hit multiple macros to perform a JA every 30 seconds that's significant. You still need to write the file. That takes time and effort. You still need to comprehend what gear goes into what sets.

Yes, you can have someone else write the file for you, something I refuse to do. Every XML I have been involved with starts out with a tutorial on what it is and how it works. Every player I have ever helped with spellcast already knows how to gear up to a certain point, again your generalizations of "spellcast users normally suck" sucks. If everyone you know falls into that category step up to better players.

prolly still not used to pc controlls so i mt alot of ***now/

You can talk your way out of jail easy anyways. I was on verge of perma ban, talked my way out in about 10 minutes.

yea..i kinda cussed the gm out <,< i can get pissed off easy sometimes.. just ask jos :/

should be back today tho.. but yea sorry guys :/

I just kept demanding to see his superior and called him racist.

I've never been GM'd ;_;

lol... btw any suggestions on replacing moonshade?

Give the above a try, except stick your set names in there and switch "Berserk" to "Restraint". You're probably gonna have to make some adjustments due to the layout of that XML file.

But that's the very point I'm making. What is the line between excessive? Fish botters say that actually staying at the keyboard and physically fishing is excessive. At what point does letting Spellcast do X for you become excessive?

To me, part of being a good player is reaction and decision making. I don't think players should use anything where a program can compensate for deficiencies in those areas by automating functions. Cancel is a prime example of this. It *can* be just a convenience but it also has the potential to make a really bad tank decent by making it such that he can't *** up Ichi by his own incompetence.

What other jobs do you have?

COR BLU SAM NIN DNC BST MNK RDM THF DRK SMN at90 DRG81 PLD79

Depending on how you gear them, Att/Regain or Att/TP Bonus probably. Either one would be useful for a MNK, if the TP bonus does affect the crit rate on VS at least.

You're comparing small conveniences to fish botting. That's like comparing an elephant to a shark. Sure, they both are living things, but one's in the *** ocean and one lives on land.

Reaction and decision making != hitting 3-6 macros to do one thing and using situational gear in those swaps depending on circumstances.

Even if it does make a poor tank a better tank (I doubt incompetent players/tanks would bother making/using a spellcast anyway...), what's the issue?

In the same way Spellcast can take a player who can't keep up and make him better by automating things for him. See above with my example about Cancel.

You can say it takes time/effort to set up the gear sets and program Spellcast. Sure. But you can't excuse automating something by arguing it takes effort to get the automating working. That's like saying its legit to automate the effort of fishing because you have to put in effort to set up your bot to fish.

I mean rather than program Spellcast to be sensitive to day and night you can write different pallets or different books for day/night and have those macros switch to day/night sets instead of a single default. Same goes for moonphases, buff up/down, etc.

In reality what it comes down to is that Spellcast is a lot easier than all that. So we arrive back at square 1. When does it do too much? When does it become too easy?

For me personally, I don't use anything that eliminates a significant possibility of player error on my part. So while I am generally a decent tank, I don't use cancel because I believe if I screw up canceling shadows I should have to pay for that.

You're the one making a fallacious analogy. I never mentioned once that I'm against Windower macros and that you should need to use multiple macros in order to swap gear.

I bring up botting to show you can't rely on the "It only makes it easier" because it can always be taken too far.

And it matters because you remove the skill element from playing. People who shouldn't beat certain mobs, who shouldn't perform at certain levels, etc. transcend their limits not through improvement and effort, but reliance on a crutch. Cue all the arguments about how Atma/Cruor Buffs make this game easier.

I wouldn't mind, honestly, if it made players able to do something they couldn't before. But I honestly don't think auto-canceling ichi over ni will do that anyway.

You're also saying spellcast is taking gear swaps too far because of automatically doing night/day gear sets and moon phase gear swaps and not changing your windower macros to set it up. I obviously could change my macros between berserk up/down, but it doesn't mean I want to do that.

Then we aren't ever going to agree on this issue.


Solo tanking Tiamat at level 75. You screw up canceling Ni so your Ichi casts with no effect. You now have no shadows for 20 seconds. You used Sentinel last landing. Tiamat is now smacking you with Mighty Strikes and your WHM is out of MP because you were low manning.

Again most of the time this won't happen. But to me, I don't like it when something compensates for your play and takes away the chance of failure.

Players should pay for screwing up, plain and simple.


Yeah and as I said what it comes down to is that Spellcast is a lot easier (and more efficient) than all that. So we arrive back at square 1. When does it do too much? When does it become too easy? What effort should be required and what can safely be discarded as extraneous?

You already said you don't think it's a big deal if a program lets you do something you couldn't do otherwise. That means your bar is set extremely high and you think that a large amount of work can safely be taken away.

Does taking away tedium from the extremely limited macro system SE has made up(this is all that SpellCast does) really "remove the skill element from playing"?

You are still comparing something that is a blatant "I am cheating" (fish bots) with something that makes up for SEs lack of foresight, as was said elephants to sharks. Yes, you can automate certain things with spellcast, but I think maybe you are missing that spellcast is at its core a gear swapping tool. And yes I can excuse using a tool that circumvents an obvious flaw in SEs game design. At no time did I insinuate or hint that I felt fish bots or any other type of bot was fine. I dont but that is a whole different discussion.

You should have to pay for an instants lack of attention on your part? I have to turn for half a second more times than I can count with my 2 kids around. I would hate to think the distraction of my kids cause an LS to wipe on something that took them weeks to farm the pops for. (as an extreme example) This falls back to the "its my 12.95" argument. It may be your 12.95 but it is our 194.25 you just wasted.

I don't think there is a large amount of work that can be taken away.

Also, the problem with Tiamat example is that a pld was tanking it! :D

lol.. loved fighting tiamat the few times i did. tho i was on cor then so cant realy comment on tanking it :d

Critical reading fail. I'm fine with Windower macros. Do I have to bold italicize and underline that? I don't think we should need to use three macros to swap gear.


Well yeah that's the point of the example. It's a whole spectrum from harmless (Windower macros that have more than 7 lines) from automation that becomes blatant cheating (Fish botting).

The debate is about where Spellcast lands on the spectrum. What does it remove and how important is it for those aspects to be in the hands of the player?

Ultimately that line is a personal boundary. I personally don't think Spellcast is so neatly on the acceptable side as the general populous does.


This might sound cold, but wouldn't this be a reason to have a different main tank? I used to have an LS member that worked at a fire station and usually he could be around all day, but if the alarm went off he had to go right away no excuses. As a result he was never allowed to tank or heal alone.

I mean why not take it a step farther: why should my LS have to wipe on something they took weeks to farm for because I'm a bad PLD? Therefore I am justified in using whatever programs necessary to make me tank better.

We don't give second chances to people who choke at the free throw line due to pressure, even if they are normally a 95% free throw shooter. Even if the championship is on the line. Even if it would waste the entire team's effort for the whole year.


Cue the "game is easy / was never hard" arguments.

Regardless of whether or not the game is easy on an absolute scale, all games function on a challenge and reward basis. I don't like when the challenge part is circumvented, or even when its dumbed down for incompetence (CoP missions / Kings / 2H formula patch)

The fact is that WAR is easy. IMO that means there is even less excuse to automate it, it's one of the jobs that should be extremely easy to play completely manually.

you tell anyone in game? discussed it with anyone in your linkshell, say or in shout? someone who u might think a friend is probably a foe and ratted you out lol