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RDM Job Manifesto
 Remora.Dodu
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 233
By Remora.Dodu 2011-08-11 18:02:19
Asura.Eeek said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: Remora.Dodu said: RDM forums are SRSBSNS
I had no idea, my apologies.
Dodu, while often correct, isn't always capable of (or willing to engage in) relatively calm, civil conversation. Don't let it get you down.
You mistake sternness for abrasiveness. I type with a smile, but my words are meant to reflect an emotionless tone.
I don't care for all of the ^^; and the :P and the playful banter in the middle of a discussion because people often use those things cover up the fact that they're wrong, and I'd prefer to alleviate any confusion.
I'm not sure that she cares to, but Ninian, for instance, can attest to the fact that I'm quite chipper in-game.
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Sylph.Kiaru
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-11 18:07:42
I'm pretty sure 99% of the people who act like completely raving lunatics on forums act normal in game. It's just the internet trend, gotta be a complete *** on forums or else.
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Remora.Dodu
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 233
By Remora.Dodu 2011-08-11 18:10:27
I'm pretty sure 99% who are completely wrong on forums are wrong in-game.
That's me being an ***, and that's you being bitter.
Sylph.Kiaru
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-11 18:11:36
Remora.Dodu said: I'm pretty sure 99% who are completely wrong on forums are wrong in-game.
That's me being an ***, and that's you being bitter. k
Fenrir.Niniann
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-08-11 18:13:04
Yeah, Dodu is pretty cheerful and he always posts like this.
By Artemicion 2011-08-11 18:16:58
So you claim your attitude and behavior in the forums have no reflection on your character? I find that hard to believe.
Ragnarok.Anye
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5449
By Ragnarok.Anye 2011-08-11 18:18:35
Hey guys? Chill.
Sylph.Kiaru
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-11 18:19:58
Artemicion said: So you claim your attitude and behavior in the forums have no reflection on your character? I find that hard to believe. I don't, a lot of people are like this. Tigerwoods is a complete moron on forums that I would never want to have anything to do with, but he's an extremely nice guy in game and on aim/msn :/
Remora.Dodu
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 233
By Remora.Dodu 2011-08-11 18:21:33
Artemicion said: So you claim your attitude and behavior in the forums have no reflection on your character? I find that hard to believe.
A) I care very little what forum-goers think of my attitude and behavior, as I get infinitely more done than the average forum-goer and entirely with friends.
B) You're entirely too thin-skinned if you genuinely take my monotone approach as a vicious rampage. If you're wrong, I tell you you're wrong, and usually chip in with the correct information. Generally speaking, the only time I get rude is when you resist being corrected, and quite frankly, if you can't handle being corrected, you shouldn't be putting your thoughts into words.
By Artemicion 2011-08-11 18:24:13
Condescending others and calling them thin skinned as means to justify your poor attitude is pretty lame in my opinion.
Ragnarok.Anye
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5449
By Ragnarok.Anye 2011-08-11 18:25:42
I really think that's enough--this is going in a bad direction; can we get back to the actual discussion?
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2011-08-11 18:26:37
Since we're on the topic of forum persona; I argue a lot and also drip sarcasm, but I try not to be abrasive or rude if I can avoid it (unless you really piss me off). Also, even if we argue a lot, it doesn't mean I have anything against you.
Sylph.Kiaru
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-11 18:28:48
Trolling on forums and acting like a psycho and insulting everyone was fun when I was 13-16, but not anymore :/
 Bahamut.Paulus
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 619
By Bahamut.Paulus 2011-08-11 18:41:48
Square Enix said: In regards to monsters that are completely resistant to certain spells, there is a high possibility that we won’t make any significant changes. However, there aren’t really too many of these monsters, so in regards to adjustments making it possible to land enfeebling magic easier, we feel it would be better for red mage’s to experience this effect on a larger amount of monsters.
Ok, so they want us to experience being resisted more on a larger amount of monsters since there are just a few monsters that we get resisted on now?
Are they talking about the effects of being resisted which has no effect or an effect of landing more spells?
 Cerberus.Eugene
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6999
By Cerberus.Eugene 2011-08-11 18:42:35
Can we have mroe rdm melee pleez. I dunno, rdm used to be good for buffs, maybe theyll go that way again
Carbuncle.Tweeek
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 732
By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-11 19:48:41
Remora.Dodu said: If you're wrong, I tell you you're wrong, and usually chip in with the correct information. Generally speaking, the only time I get rude is when you resist being corrected
You weren't even right here, but you still got your panties in a big ol' bunch. If your intent is to reflect an emotionless tone I can let you know they are not coming across that way and it has nothing to do with your avatar picture.
Remora.Dodu said:
You mistake sternness for abrasiveness. I type with a smile, but my words are meant to reflect an emotionless tone.
Perhaps you can take your own advice, I just threw out some information and you could not handle being corrected.
Remora.Dodu said: Generally speaking, the only time I get rude is when you resist being corrected, and quite frankly, if you can't handle being corrected, you shouldn't be putting your thoughts into words.
You claimed that RDM cure quicker than WHM and functionally that's just not true because it's ineffective to cure for BOTH jobs to cast in so much FC gear. It's literally such a silly argument because people could be missing out on potential midcast gear swaps. Additionally, WHM wins the race to cure casting time so the fight that you fought so hard for that was ultimately a pointless argument to begin with... you ended up losing.
The only thing you can say to further backup your data is that you think the recorded information for FC is incorrect. You feel it but haven't proven it. Even if it is I doubt it's enough to pass WHM here is the break down for one of the most pointless arguments ever.
^^ Pointless Race to Cure Casting Time WHM vs RDM showdown 2011 extravaganza
in this corner we have: WHM
20% Cure Casting Time Merits
15% Cure Clogs
12% Orison Pantaloons +2
10% Light Arts
10% Aceso's Choker
10% Anhur Robe
2% Loq. Earring
2% Incantor Stone
2% Veela Cape
2% Winged Wand
1% Nebula Cuffs +1
WHM: 86%
and in this corner we have: RDM
30% FC Trait V
10% Warlock's Chapeau
10% Duelist's Tabard
10% Light Arts
3% Jeweled Collar (requires perfect augment)
2% Loq. Earring
2% Estq. Earring
2% Impatiens (occasionally procs)
2% Nebula Slops +1
1% Vivid Strap
1% Nebula Cuffs +1
RDM: 73%
If I'm missing one for RDM I'll put it down I have the ability to handle being told I'm wrong so let me know and I'll edit but I doubt it's going to push it over the gap and I doubt those %s were calculated that far off, if they were prove it.
Hey look i'm using ^^ and it's not to cover up the fact that I'm wrong... Perhaps if you chill out a bit people would respond to you a bit differently. P.S. I act different in game than on forums for whoever is counting tallies.
Fenrir.Niniann
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-08-11 20:05:15
Missing estoqueur's earring. You're also just taking into account casting time, not recast time. Cure casting time- doesn't affect recast timers, and I'm pretty sure same goes for AF3+2 pants.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-08-11 20:05:41
Anhur Robe is 10% Fast Cast if you want to get extra super shiny HQ for the WHM, Estoqueur's Earring is another 2% for RDM I believe. Impatiens is Quick Magic ie Apoc atma, not Fast Cast.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2507
By Asura.Calatilla 2011-08-11 20:09:24
Cant use winged wand and vivid strap together. Only 1% but still, thought I`d mention it.
Carbuncle.Tweeek
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 732
By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-11 20:26:49
Asura.Calatilla said: Cant use winged wand and vivid strap together. Only 1% but still, thought I`d mention it.
lol gg, my bad
Fenrir.Niniann said: Missing estoqueur's earring. You're also just taking into account casting time, not recast time. Cure casting time- doesn't affect recast timers, and I'm pretty sure same goes for AF3+2 pants.
You are correct but they never said recast time and they replied to my post which included -cure casting time etc.
I have covered the "recast time" earlier though and if we needed to add more haste and sacrifice cure pot% we could but again that would be silly and dumb.
Carbuncle.Tweeek said:
The point I was making was Cure VI has the longest recast time of any cure spell and even with it's long *** recast time I don't have a problem (rarely have a problem if I'm slowed I can see the counters) hopping back and forth between the spells. So why in the world would I have problems hopping back and forth between 4/5? Problems as in waiting for my timers to cool off before I can cure again.
 Valefor.Shaddix
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2
By Valefor.Shaddix 2011-08-11 20:27:32
1) I believe I read incantor is more than 2% somewhere
2) whm is faster than rdm on cures yes
3) who cares about the recast when whm has three timers and rdm only has one
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Ragnarok.Sekundes
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4212
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-11 20:27:39
I wouldn't count Impatiens either but you can replace it with augur's gaiters.
Fenrir.Niniann
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-08-11 20:51:42
Valefor.Shaddix said: 3) who cares about the recast when whm has three timers and rdm only has one
We're arguing it on the speculation that RDM might get Cure V(I personally don't believe it will), and if it does people are saying WHM will be dead.
Outside Abyssea(which is probably where the future of XI is heading) WHM can only reasonably cast Cure IV and V, since VI costs far too much MP and cures way too much. Without a bunch of Refresh support, WHM simply cannot spam IV V VI.
If RDM gets V, that puts it on an equal playing field as WHM for the most part. This is why we're discussing this.
Phoenix.Fondue
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2713
By Phoenix.Fondue 2011-08-11 21:17:55
this whole thread seems to be implying that the game isnt already horribly unbalanced and honestly I dislike playing redmage at the current state of the game, cure 5 would help
gravity 2 is *** stupid
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Ragnarok.Sekundes
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4212
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-11 21:19:01
For taking care of a group on a mob that only damages one person at a time rdm does just fine, anything where aoe's(damage or status effects) rdm falls behind. whm has an advantage with the spells they get even when /sch. Rdm doesn't naturally get protectra or shellra, aoe barspells or status removals. So we get to waste charges on those. Now granted I hate /sch simply because flipping modes is too slow. As a rdm I'm normally not a main healer and I bounce back and forth between black and white magic quite often which reduces the utility of /sch. Whms rarely ever have to switch arts unless they want to aspirga something. If I need to flip to darkarts then I loose access to na spells.
I'm sure I'll be reminded of several other problems with rdms as main healers for anything that actually matters.
Carbuncle.Tweeek
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 732
By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-11 21:19:06
Fenrir.Niniann said:
Outside Abyssea(which is probably where the future of XI is heading) WHM can only reasonably cast Cure IV and V, since VI costs far too much MP and cures way too much. Without a bunch of Refresh support, WHM simply cannot spam IV V VI.
but ITT people are only making assumptions that are favorable to RDM when the truth is no one knows exactly what the future will hold. NO ONE knew atmas would come into play pre-abyssea right?
RDM assumption: that RDM gets Cure V
RDM assumption: XI headed towards outside Abyssea
RDM assumption: no need for Cure VI outside Abyssea cause not enough refresh/support etc.
WHM assumption? New additions could be made where MP is still not an issue even outside Abyssea?
WHM assumption? New sources of refresh available (we got 7mp/tick available now in gear alone) add in other resources RDM, BRD, COR, SMN, /SCH, /RDM etc it's really adding up even outside
I'm not saying it's true I'm just pointing out that there are a whole lot of assumptions going on in this thread that favors RDM and people are also assuming that what I suggested is no possible thus ruling out Cure VI as pointless (has happened so many times in this thread)
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2011-08-11 21:20:05
If Enfeebling actually mattered for endgame stuff (voidwatch, HNM, etc) RDM would be fine as the best enfeebler while being able to support cure and nuke.
IMO at least. RDM curing is fine outside abyssea really.
By Schwertzauberer 2011-08-11 21:28:47
We keep talking about "outside Abyssea", but truth is that any new content is going to have Abyssea-like enhancements attached to it. The genie is out of the bottle on this one, we're not going back. Doing older expansion material (with a few exceptions) is now the stuff of dual-boxed pocket healers and duo/trio parties.
Valefor.Shaddix
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2
By Valefor.Shaddix 2011-08-11 21:31:07
Fenrir.Niniann said:
We're arguing it on the speculation that RDM might get Cure V(I personally don't believe it will), and if it does people are saying WHM will be dead.
Outside Abyssea(which is probably where the future of XI is heading) WHM can only reasonably cast Cure IV and V, since VI costs far too much MP and cures way too much. Without a bunch of Refresh support, WHM simply cannot spam IV V VI.
If RDM gets V, that puts it on an equal playing field as WHM for the most part. This is why we're discussing this.
I will inject my thoughts here before I go to bed.
I do not see how RDM getting cure 5 will kill WHM. RDM has other ***to be casting besides cure in serious engagements. RDM will already be preferred over WHM in lowman situation and that is the only place that you would care about WHM mp efficiency(which should match rdm anyway, though I haven't done the math on it at 90), so the point is moot.
I see no issues with WHM casting cure 6 if cure 5 is down at real events(where you will have the refresh support), MP efficiency was never an issue at 75 after /sch and I found it irritating that other WHM's cared about it so much. The point of whm is for "oh ***" moments on hard mobs. If you are having to spam cure 5 and 6 back to back then the rest of your ally/party needs to get their ***together.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1907
By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-08-11 21:44:02
I think this whole Cure 5 debate got put to rest the moment this was posted
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: Camate said: Quote: Make it possible to use Cure V. In regards to support capability, we’re thinking more in the direction of adjustments that will differ from white mage.
Instead of just simply adding a high-tier Cure, we’re looking into making it so scholars can raise their performance further by enhancing the effects of stratagem use and regen-type magic. However, this doesn’t mean that we won’t be adding a high-tier Cure later down the line.
This would also mean RDM and SCH will not be getting Cure 5
Deal with It
Camate said: Greetings red mages!
Thanks for all of your feedback and sorry to keep you waiting! Here are a handful of responses we got from the development team in regards to your questions and requests.
Quote: Do you have any plans to enhance the viability of our sword-wielding proficiency?
As was stated in the preface of the job adjustments concept, the core concept of these adjustments is to make each job useful in HNM fights as well as other battle-related content. That said, we mentioned that the job adjustments will focus on party structuring, but that doesn’t mean that we will not be looking into the sword-wielding proficiency of red mages. We are actually planning adjustments to red mage’s proficiencies in the upcoming version update.
Quote: Make it possible to add enfeebling effects to En-spells.
We have no plans for this at the moment. When looking at the current system, where enfeebles take place using magic and En-spells increase damage, we’re pretty satisfied with the current separation of the two.
Quote: Add higher tier En-spells.
Planning to add these during the next version update. However, this isn’t going to be the tier-III version, we are thinking about a different type of En-spell.
Quote: Add an ability that enhances the effect of En-spells.
We would like to look into perhaps having this take place through merit points.
Quote: Make it possible for red mage to use Enlight and Endark.
Enlight and Endark are special magic spells for paladin and dark knight respectively and we have no plans to add them to red mage at this time.
Quote: Get rid of the 100% enfeeble resists on some monsters.
In regards to monsters that are completely resistant to certain spells, there is a high possibility that we won’t make any significant changes. However, there aren’t really too many of these monsters, so in regards to adjustments making it possible to land enfeebling magic easier, we feel it would be better for red mage’s to experience this effect on a larger amount of monsters.
Quote: Add new enhancing magic.
Since enhancing magic is an area that red mages excel at, we would like to add something. We have been receiving a lot of ideas for enhancing magic and we will be keeping them in mind when exploring this subject.
Quote: Will red mage be able to the use the higher tier Gravity?
We are planning to make this spell a red mage-specific spell, but are continuing to evaluate it.
Quote: Allow red mages to use one-hand sword weapon skills that can only be used by certain jobs and support jobs. We also want staff weapon skills.
We will be looking into both of these along with the weapon skills revamp.
Quote: Give red mage the “Fencer” job trait!
We looked into this, however, if we were to add this it wouldn’t be a job trait. The possibility is pretty high that it would be in the form of equipment that a red mage could wear.
Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11518-Job-Adjustment%EF%BD%93-Manifesto-RDM?p=165408&viewfull=1#post165408
Mostly disappointing stuff and wasted questions. I welcome whatever Melee buffs we get (i used to melee a lot on RDM but I'm planning on an Almace for BLU and RDM), but I'm facepalming that SE is denying us Fencer as a job trait. lol@GearWeWillNeverUseOverHaste >_>
It also doesn't say much for the backline crowd. Can't say we're Enfeebling Masters if we're still getting our most powerful enfeebles resisted on HNMs. And can we just get Quick Magic, Elemental Stave-like Swords/Daggers, Regen III and Extremely useful Debuffs already? =\
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