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RDM Job Manifesto
 Fenrir.Niniann
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-08-11 16:01:14
Carbuncle.Tweeek said: lol @ recast time for Cure IV compared to VI
only time I have a problem spamming Cure V and VI back to back to back is if I am slowed so I wouldn't say it's really that big of a deal or important. It would be even less important going between IV and V lower base recast times.
I was mostly stating facts. And you can't use VI outside Abyssea unless you're getting like super Ballads, Refresh II, and SMN roll and/or Diabolos' favor. So you should be thinking in terms of IV/V, yes they have an advantage over RDM there, but not if RDM gets V.
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Rdm/whm caps fastcast with head, body and the earrings. You don't even need the rest as it will do nothing.
Fastcast doesn't cap at -50% anymore. @@;
Carbuncle.Tweeek
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 732
By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-11 16:02:23
Remora.Dodu said:
Enjoy spamming either of those spells while doing anything we're talking about.
lol @ you if you're srs
Remora.Dodu said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: Who is sure about RDMs casting quicker than WHM anyway? I never ran the numbers but this is what I get for -% cure casting time and I don't use Veela Cape or Winged Wand or Vivid Strap mainly cause I want to make sure I get my midcast gear on in time.
20% Cure Casting Time Merits
15% Cure Clogs
12% Orison Pantaloons +2
10% Light Arts
5% Orison Locket
2% Loq. Earring
2% Incantor Stone
66%
This is ahead of your setup while using 1% casting time values for things I don't trust the documented stats on.
could add vivid strap, nebula gloves to the whm also.. additionally whm get veela cape access and incantor stone isn't an occasional thing
Ragnarok.Sekundes
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4212
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-11 16:04:33
Fenrir.Niniann said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: lol @ recast time for Cure IV compared to VI
only time I have a problem spamming Cure V and VI back to back to back is if I am slowed so I wouldn't say it's really that big of a deal or important. It would be even less important going between IV and V lower base recast times.
I was mostly stating facts. And you can't use VI outside Abyssea unless you're getting like super Ballads, Refresh II, and SMN roll and/or Diabolos' favor. So you should be thinking in terms of IV/V, yes they have an advantage over RDM there, but not if RDM gets V.
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Rdm/whm caps fastcast with head, body and the earrings. You don't even need the rest as it will do nothing.
Fastcast doesn't cap at -50% anymore. @@; Do you know the breakdown? What's the total cap? Can you get there with just fastcast? How does lightarts effect it?
I've got most of the fastcast in the game for rdm and my whm cures faster everytime.
Remora.Dodu
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 233
By Remora.Dodu 2011-08-11 16:07:07
Which still doesn't put you ahead while, again, using values for a few items that I'm almost certain are at least twice as potent.
Carbuncle.Tweeek
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 732
By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-11 16:09:52
it's just dumb going to a certain % of -casting time cause you should make sure you midcast gear will land
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Ragnarok.Sekundes
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4212
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-11 16:10:23
Remora.Dodu said: Which still doesn't put you ahead while, again, using values for a few items that I'm almost certain are at least twice as potent. What about nebula body +1?
Asura.Eeek
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 768
By Asura.Eeek 2011-08-11 16:11:49
Carbuncle.Tweeek said: Remora.Dodu said:
Enjoy spamming either of those spells while doing anything we're talking about.
lol @ you if you're srs
If I'm reading him right, he makes a good point. A RDM main healer is not a realistic option in situations where WHMs need to make regular use of Cure V and VI. Not every situation requires that degree of healing power, though.
So yeah, situations that normally call for regular Cure V/VI casts really are outside the bounds of this conversation.
EDIT: Ah nevermind. That tangent's moved to Fast Cast. :'(
Remora.Dodu
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 233
By Remora.Dodu 2011-08-11 16:12:24
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Remora.Dodu said: Which still doesn't put you ahead while, again, using values for a few items that I'm almost certain are at least twice as potent. What about nebula body +1?
That should make the two even, again, using values that I'm almost certain are twice as potent.
Fenrir.Camaroz
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 320
By Fenrir.Camaroz 2011-08-11 16:13:22
Carbuncle.Tweeek said: it's just dumb going to a certain % of -casting time cause you should make sure you midcast gear will land
Exactly
Remora.Dodu
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 233
By Remora.Dodu 2011-08-11 16:13:45
Asura.Eeek said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: Remora.Dodu said:
Enjoy spamming either of those spells while doing anything we're talking about.
lol @ you if you're srs
If I'm reading him right, he makes a good point. A RDM main healer is not a realistic option in situations where WHMs need to make regular use of Cure V and VI. Not every situation requires that degree of healing power, though.
So yeah, situations that normally call for regular Cure V/VI casts really are outside the bounds of this conversation.
His reading comprehension is worse than I thought if he's talking about Abyssea, in which case I wouldn't even begin to suggest RDM in lieu of WHM. Outside of Abyssea, there's nothing that requires C5 or C6, and without a massive amount of support, you couldn't spam them if you wanted to.
Fenrir.Niniann
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-08-11 16:14:29
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Do you know the breakdown? What's the total cap? Can you get there with just fastcast? How does lightarts effect it?
I've got most of the fastcast in the game for rdm and my whm cures faster everytime.
It's -80%. Light Arts worked outside of the cap before, but I don't know how it works now. I honestly haven't been keeping up with XI current events in forever.
Remora.Dodu
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 233
By Remora.Dodu 2011-08-11 16:14:52
Fenrir.Camaroz said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: it's just dumb going to a certain % of -casting time cause you should make sure you midcast gear will land
Exactly
Which hurts WHM dramatically more than it hurts RDM.
Carbuncle.Tweeek
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 732
By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-11 16:19:54
Remora.Dodu said: Asura.Eeek said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: Remora.Dodu said:
Enjoy spamming either of those spells while doing anything we're talking about.
lol @ you if you're srs
If I'm reading him right, he makes a good point. A RDM main healer is not a realistic option in situations where WHMs need to make regular use of Cure V and VI. Not every situation requires that degree of healing power, though.
So yeah, situations that normally call for regular Cure V/VI casts really are outside the bounds of this conversation.
His reading comprehension is worse than I thought if he's talking about Abyssea, in which case I wouldn't even begin to suggest RDM in lieu of WHM. Outside of Abyssea, there's nothing that requires C5 or C6, and without a massive amount of support, you couldn't spam them if you wanted to.
The point I was making was Cure VI has the longest recast time of any cure spell and even with it's long *** recast time I don't have a problem (rarely have a problem if I'm slowed I can see the counters) hopping back and forth between the spells. So why in the world would I have problems hopping back and forth between 4/5? Problems as in waiting for my timers to cool off before I can cure again.
I was asking if you were srs because you really need to calm down, your avatar displays a picture perfect image of exactly how I picture you looking when posting in this thread.
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Fenrir.Camaroz
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 320
By Fenrir.Camaroz 2011-08-11 16:22:39
lolz
Carbuncle.Tweeek
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 732
By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-11 16:25:02
P.S. I'm in agreement that Cure V being granted to RDM would make it the most feasible main healer or damn well close. I was just making a case for WHM in terms of all the "RDM is uber quicker than WHM" for cure spells jargon going around.
Remora.Dodu
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 233
By Remora.Dodu 2011-08-11 16:28:43
I'm not interested in bringing sunshine and lollipops to the discussion, I'm interested in bring forth factual information. If my avatar detracts from that, feel free to block images.
Carbuncle.Tweeek
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 732
By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-11 16:29:55
Remora.Dodu said: RDM forums are SRSBSNS
I had no idea, my apologies.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4212
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-11 16:39:59
Remora.Dodu said: Which still doesn't put you ahead while, again, using values for a few items that I'm almost certain are at least twice as potent.
AMK hat.
Leviathan.Draylo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
By Leviathan.Draylo 2011-08-11 16:48:29
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Fenrir.Niniann said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: lol @ recast time for Cure IV compared to VI
only time I have a problem spamming Cure V and VI back to back to back is if I am slowed so I wouldn't say it's really that big of a deal or important. It would be even less important going between IV and V lower base recast times.
I was mostly stating facts. And you can't use VI outside Abyssea unless you're getting like super Ballads, Refresh II, and SMN roll and/or Diabolos' favor. So you should be thinking in terms of IV/V, yes they have an advantage over RDM there, but not if RDM gets V.
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Rdm/whm caps fastcast with head, body and the earrings. You don't even need the rest as it will do nothing.
Fastcast doesn't cap at -50% anymore. @@; Do you know the breakdown? What's the total cap? Can you get there with just fastcast? How does lightarts effect it?
I've got most of the fastcast in the game for rdm and my whm cures faster everytime.
Didn't you just admit on the last page that you had no idea about fast cast? You just thought it capped at 50% lol
Leviathan.Draylo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
By Leviathan.Draylo 2011-08-11 16:50:45
Carbuncle.Tweeek said: Leviathan.Draylo said: WHM is a mules job
I'll bite.
same could be said for nearly all DD jobs, troll.
Takes more to be a good well rounded WHM then it does to be a good DD. What's a good DD vs a bad DD? The difference is separated by gear otherwise it's wait for X amount of TP then WS rinse and repeat.
melee, get TP, WS, melee, get TP, WS, melee, get TP, WS
You're not even reacting to things you're just repeating the same processes over and over. Not as if tanks need to do much to control hate like they did back in the day. auto-attackishard.
Um, troll? It was a joke, WHM is a boring job to most people...
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1907
By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-08-11 16:56:51
Remora.Dodu said: When was C5 ever critical in the 75 cap days?
Usually it's reserved for near-oneshots, which were rare back then. I have a feeling we're going to see many more near-death scenarios for Cure V to be important when new NMs/HNMs come along.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4212
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-11 16:57:18
Leviathan.Draylo said: Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Fenrir.Niniann said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: lol @ recast time for Cure IV compared to VI
only time I have a problem spamming Cure V and VI back to back to back is if I am slowed so I wouldn't say it's really that big of a deal or important. It would be even less important going between IV and V lower base recast times.
I was mostly stating facts. And you can't use VI outside Abyssea unless you're getting like super Ballads, Refresh II, and SMN roll and/or Diabolos' favor. So you should be thinking in terms of IV/V, yes they have an advantage over RDM there, but not if RDM gets V.
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Rdm/whm caps fastcast with head, body and the earrings. You don't even need the rest as it will do nothing.
Fastcast doesn't cap at -50% anymore. @@; Do you know the breakdown? What's the total cap? Can you get there with just fastcast? How does lightarts effect it?
I've got most of the fastcast in the game for rdm and my whm cures faster everytime.
Didn't you just admit on the last page that you had no idea about fast cast? You just thought it capped at 50% lol I was asking because I'd heard it had been but no one responded. But claiming it did certainly got some replies.
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2011-08-11 16:57:40
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: Remora.Dodu said: When was C5 ever critical in the 75 cap days?
Usually it's reserved for near-oneshots, which were rare back then. I have a feeling we're going to see many more near-death scenarios for Cure V to be important when new NMs/HNMs come along. I loved Cure V when Ixion caught DD's not paying attention at 75
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Carbuncle.Tweeek
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 732
By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-11 16:59:31
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Remora.Dodu said: Which still doesn't put you ahead while, again, using values for a few items that I'm almost certain are at least twice as potent.
AMK hat.
lol, nice I forgot that too. It really is sooooo close for casting time I'm not sure why people are acting like it was a huge difference between the two. Again, they both reach a point in which you would want to stop packing on the precast gear so you got time for midcast.
When it comes to recast time with the available FC for both jobs I just don't see it being as big of a problem as some are making it out to be especially with haste on.
To me the biggest selling point of RDM being better than WHM if RDM had Cure V would be for versatility and MP efficiency (even though +2 legs help WHM tremendously I doubt it's enough to tilt the scales)
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Ragnarok.Sekundes
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4212
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-11 17:07:11
Carbuncle.Tweeek said: Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Remora.Dodu said: Which still doesn't put you ahead while, again, using values for a few items that I'm almost certain are at least twice as potent.
AMK hat.
lol, nice I forgot that too. It really is sooooo close for casting time I'm not sure why people are acting like it was a huge difference between the two. Again, they both reach a point in which you would want to stop packing on the precast gear so you got time for midcast.
When it comes to recast time with the available FC for both jobs I just don't see it being as big of a problem as some are making it out to be especially with haste on.
Many of the fastcast values are just assumed so it's hard to say what they really are. Fastcast is similar to haste in calculation isn't it? so the fastcast value isn't x% exactly, it's X/1024 so that makes it even worse.
But honestly I don't really see rdm having a "faster casting advantage" that seems to be the assumption. My personal experience says whm cures faster in my situation but I have no proof of that ^^; I did have some issues working my XML to ensure I didn't cure in FC gear and I never had that issue on rdm.
Edit: Also Aceso's Choker rather than Orison Locket. 5% more for cures.
Asura.Eeek
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 768
By Asura.Eeek 2011-08-11 17:30:54
Carbuncle.Tweeek said: Remora.Dodu said: RDM forums are SRSBSNS
I had no idea, my apologies.
Dodu, while often correct, isn't always capable of (or willing to engage in) relatively calm, civil conversation. Don't let it get you down.
Sylph.Kiaru
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-11 17:33:59
Asura.Eeek said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: Remora.Dodu said: RDM forums are SRSBSNS
I had no idea, my apologies.
Dodu, while often correct, isn't always capable of (or willing to engage in) relatively calm, civil conversation. Don't let it get you down. Seems to be the normal of people from remora/leviathan tbh.
Asura.Eeek
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 768
By Asura.Eeek 2011-08-11 17:37:59
Sylph.Kiaru said: Asura.Eeek said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: Remora.Dodu said: RDM forums are SRSBSNS
I had no idea, my apologies.
Dodu, while often correct, isn't always capable of (or willing to engage in) relatively calm, civil conversation. Don't let it get you down. Seems to be the normal of people from remora/leviathan tbh.
I wouldn't go that far. There are *** in every walk of life. It's just the way it is.
Leviathan.Draylo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
By Leviathan.Draylo 2011-08-11 17:39:19
Me, an ***?
Remora.Ninian
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1667
By Remora.Ninian 2011-08-11 17:44:38
Leviathan.Draylo said: Me, an ***?
Camate said: Greetings red mages!
Thanks for all of your feedback and sorry to keep you waiting! Here are a handful of responses we got from the development team in regards to your questions and requests.
Quote: Do you have any plans to enhance the viability of our sword-wielding proficiency?
As was stated in the preface of the job adjustments concept, the core concept of these adjustments is to make each job useful in HNM fights as well as other battle-related content. That said, we mentioned that the job adjustments will focus on party structuring, but that doesn’t mean that we will not be looking into the sword-wielding proficiency of red mages. We are actually planning adjustments to red mage’s proficiencies in the upcoming version update.
Quote: Make it possible to add enfeebling effects to En-spells.
We have no plans for this at the moment. When looking at the current system, where enfeebles take place using magic and En-spells increase damage, we’re pretty satisfied with the current separation of the two.
Quote: Add higher tier En-spells.
Planning to add these during the next version update. However, this isn’t going to be the tier-III version, we are thinking about a different type of En-spell.
Quote: Add an ability that enhances the effect of En-spells.
We would like to look into perhaps having this take place through merit points.
Quote: Make it possible for red mage to use Enlight and Endark.
Enlight and Endark are special magic spells for paladin and dark knight respectively and we have no plans to add them to red mage at this time.
Quote: Get rid of the 100% enfeeble resists on some monsters.
In regards to monsters that are completely resistant to certain spells, there is a high possibility that we won’t make any significant changes. However, there aren’t really too many of these monsters, so in regards to adjustments making it possible to land enfeebling magic easier, we feel it would be better for red mage’s to experience this effect on a larger amount of monsters.
Quote: Add new enhancing magic.
Since enhancing magic is an area that red mages excel at, we would like to add something. We have been receiving a lot of ideas for enhancing magic and we will be keeping them in mind when exploring this subject.
Quote: Will red mage be able to the use the higher tier Gravity?
We are planning to make this spell a red mage-specific spell, but are continuing to evaluate it.
Quote: Allow red mages to use one-hand sword weapon skills that can only be used by certain jobs and support jobs. We also want staff weapon skills.
We will be looking into both of these along with the weapon skills revamp.
Quote: Give red mage the “Fencer” job trait!
We looked into this, however, if we were to add this it wouldn’t be a job trait. The possibility is pretty high that it would be in the form of equipment that a red mage could wear.
Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11518-Job-Adjustment%EF%BD%93-Manifesto-RDM?p=165408&viewfull=1#post165408
Mostly disappointing stuff and wasted questions. I welcome whatever Melee buffs we get (i used to melee a lot on RDM but I'm planning on an Almace for BLU and RDM), but I'm facepalming that SE is denying us Fencer as a job trait. lol@GearWeWillNeverUseOverHaste >_>
It also doesn't say much for the backline crowd. Can't say we're Enfeebling Masters if we're still getting our most powerful enfeebles resisted on HNMs. And can we just get Quick Magic, Elemental Stave-like Swords/Daggers, Regen III and Extremely useful Debuffs already? =\
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