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RDM Job Manifesto
 Cerberus.Rayik
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 924
By Cerberus.Rayik 2011-08-12 13:21:47
Sylph.Kiaru said: I'll remember how useful RDM is the next time I see a shout in port jueno looking for one
Oh..never.
I can relate with you to a small extent, but it could be a LOT worse. Go level drk/drg/smn and tell me about how useful they are compared to rdm. Really, RDM has all kidns of uses. If you can't find a wya to make yourself useful, then by all means, play something else.
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2011-08-12 13:22:38
RDM isnt so great inside abyssea. A lot of jobs arent. But outside abyssea, yeah RDM is still really nice.
Cerberus.Rayik
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 924
By Cerberus.Rayik 2011-08-12 13:24:28
Sylph.Kiaru said: Um, I never join shout groups, or if I do I make my own and basically invite idiots to yellow for me while I solo the mob. Who said I join shouts? lol? Shouts was just an example of how the job is useless if NO ONE ever shouts for it. I do things with friends or my LS.
Low man Dynamis says hi. RDM absolutely OWNS in Dynamis, where there's no Refresh atma.
Bismarck.Eburo
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1377
By Bismarck.Eburo 2011-08-12 13:24:58
Sylph.Kiaru said: Um, I never join shout groups, or if I do I make my own and basically invite idiots to yellow for me while I solo the mob. Who said I join shouts? lol? Shouts was just an example of how the job is useless if NO ONE ever shouts for it. I do things with friends or my LS.
"I never join shout groups, but I judge my job's usefulness on how many shouts I see"
Does anyone else see this?
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 58
By Lakshmi.Naokoyume 2011-08-12 13:26:04
Sylph.Kiaru said: Um, I never join shout groups, or if I do I make my own and basically invite idiots to yellow for me while I solo the mob. Who said I join shouts? lol? Shouts was just an example of how the job is useless if NO ONE ever shouts for it. I do things with friends or my LS.
... Then why even mention shouts? Rdm is useful for people who actually know how to design a useful strategy, whether it be efficient lowmanning, or covering all your bases in a linkshell. We've given you plenty of examples. You know, as opposed to throwing an alliance full of wars, nins, and whms at something as simple as Cirein-croin.
Lol, deciding whether something's good because people shout for it. Just lol.
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Sylph.Kiaru
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-12 13:27:36
Cerberus.Rayik said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Um, I never join shout groups, or if I do I make my own and basically invite idiots to yellow for me while I solo the mob. Who said I join shouts? lol? Shouts was just an example of how the job is useless if NO ONE ever shouts for it. I do things with friends or my LS.
Low man Dynamis says hi. RDM absolutely OWNS in Dynamis, where there's no Refresh atma. RDM is amazing, fun, useful, and great outside yes. Inside it's horrible though, more the event than the job, still needs cure5 though.
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2011-08-12 13:30:02
RDM does not cure V.
You hate having to be a healer on RDM, yet you want cure V. Makes no sense.
What RDM needs, is to have their enfeebles matter more on HNMs and higher tier NMs.
Would also be nice to have exclusive enhancing magic that helps buff the party more.
RDMs asking for cure V is like PLDs asking for fixes to them inside abyssea. It isn't needed. So you arent good for one event? There are other events you ARE good in.
Not every job is going to be good for every event, but thats why they let you freely change jobs.
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Bismarck.Eburo
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1377
By Bismarck.Eburo 2011-08-12 13:32:10
Sylph.Kimble said: RDM does not cure V.
You hate having to be a healer on RDM, yet you want cure V. Makes no sense.
What RDM needs, is to have their enfeebles matter more on HNMs and higher tier NMs.
Would also be nice to have exclusive enhancing magic that helps buff the party more.
RDMs asking for cure V is like PLDs asking for fixes to them inside abyssea. It isn't needed. So you arent good for one event? There are other events you ARE good in.
Not every job is going to be good for every event, but thats why they let you freely change jobs.
Agreed on the enfeebles, ever seen an Orthrus with Saboteur'd Slow II? He looks like he's really tired. If only all RDM enfeebles worked that well.
Sylph.Kiaru
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-12 13:34:35
How do you land slow2 on him without elemental seal?
I want RDM to have uber buffs like bravery/faith/status resist thingy from FF13 and more potent debuffs that work on EVERY mob like addle does.
Bismarck.Eburo
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1377
By Bismarck.Eburo 2011-08-12 13:35:09
Sylph.Kiaru said: How do you land slow2 on him without elemental seal?
... with Elemental Seal...?
Sylph.Kiaru
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-12 13:35:43
Shouldn't be subbing blm but whatever, and that's dumb you need to sub BLM to land debuffs on mobs with our insane abyssea stats <_< I can barely land addle on that retard NM.
edit: Shouldn't even be able to sub BLM because you shouldn't even be on RDM in the first place :D Resisting to nukes, basically immune to debuffs besides dia3, huge aoe/burst damage so you should be on WHM~
Or if you hate WHM as much as mean you can alt tab and afk
Bismarck.Eburo
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1377
By Bismarck.Eburo 2011-08-12 13:36:10
I've landed Slow 1 on Orthrus as BLM, without Elemental Seal. >_>
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2011-08-12 13:38:27
BLM, WHM, SCH all have their use for subs.
Knowing how and when to use them is better then thinking one is the be all end all for subs.
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Ragnarok.Sekundes
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4212
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-12 13:42:12
If the mob isn't completely immune to it then chances are you have a floored rate of landing it which is 20%. If it has no specific resistances( EDIT: most nms do have resistances to most enfeebs)... then a rdm should have a capped land rate even in full potency gear.
A floored land rate basically makes the debuff unneeded though because by the time you can actually get a spell to land, the damn thing is dead.
SE needs to make harder mobs but ones that don't resist every $!@%*#$ enfeeb we have that would actually bring something to the table.
Carbuncle.Tweeek
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 732
By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-12 13:43:27
Sylph.Kiaru said: Um, I never join shout groups, or if I do I make my own and basically invite idiots to yellow for me while I solo the mob. Who said I join shouts? lol? Shouts was just an example of how the job is useless if NO ONE ever shouts for it. I do things with friends or my LS.
You're implying only idiots partake in shout groups. But then you used the fact that these "idiots" don't shout for RDMs in their idiot groups as proof that RDM is useless? If shout parties are full of idiots and using RDM is r0ng, wouldn't the idiots shout for RDMs more often? insertraptor.jpg anyone following this?
Bismarck.Eburo said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Um, I never join shout groups, or if I do I make my own and basically invite idiots to yellow for me while I solo the mob. Who said I join shouts? lol? Shouts was just an example of how the job is useless if NO ONE ever shouts for it. I do things with friends or my LS.
"I never join shout groups, but I judge my job's usefulness on how many shouts I see"
Does anyone else see this?
just saw this.. and exactly..
Bismarck.Eburo
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1377
By Bismarck.Eburo 2011-08-12 13:44:08
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: If the mob isn't completely immune to it then chances are you have a floored rate of landing it which is 20%. If it has no specific resistances( EDIT: most nms do have resistances to most enfeebs)... then a rdm should have a capped land rate even in full potency gear.
A floored land rate basically makes the debuff unneeded though because by the time you can actually get a spell to land, the damn thing is dead.
SE needs to make harder mobs but ones that don't resist every $!@%*#$ enfeeb we have that would actually bring something to the table.
I think RDM needs better enhancing in terms of resisting Paralyze or Addle for example, f'ing hate those...
Carbuncle.Tweeek said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Um, I never join shout groups, or if I do I make my own and basically invite idiots to yellow for me while I solo the mob. Who said I join shouts? lol? Shouts was just an example of how the job is useless if NO ONE ever shouts for it. I do things with friends or my LS.
You're implying only idiots partake in shout groups. But then you used the fact that these "idiots" don't shout for RDMs in their idiot groups as proof that RDM is useless? If shout parties are full of idiots and using RDM is r0ng, wouldn't the idiots shout for RDMs more often? insertraptor.jpg anyone following this?
Lol, well played ;)
By Pooman 2011-08-12 13:44:38
Sylph.Kiaru said: WHM would still be the best healer, RDM just wouldn't be equal to a /whm healer.
Thank you for that enlightening post Captain Obvious. It's just with Cure V RDM would be useful in a lot more situations than before. If you have a WHM then obviously that's the better solution. Don't? Then invite a RDM if all you're worried about is healing.
By Pooman 2011-08-12 13:45:35
Carbuncle.Tweeek said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Um, I never join shout groups, or if I do I make my own and basically invite idiots to yellow for me while I solo the mob. Who said I join shouts? lol? Shouts was just an example of how the job is useless if NO ONE ever shouts for it. I do things with friends or my LS.
You're implying only idiots partake in shout groups. But then you used the fact that these "idiots" don't shout for RDMs in their idiot groups as proof that RDM is useless? If shout parties are full of idiots and using RDM is r0ng, wouldn't the idiots shout for RDMs more often? insertraptor.jpg anyone following this?
I was going to post this exact same thing.
Sylph.Kiaru
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-12 13:47:08
Umm they don't shout for RDM's because it's common sense you want a WHM for healer, melee with either red/yellow/TH for tank and BLM/BRD for procs. 4th slot+ goes to blu.
Carbuncle.Tweeek
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 732
By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-12 13:49:47
you're now making a general statement that implies idiots have common sense?
over due
Bismarck.Eburo
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1377
By Bismarck.Eburo 2011-08-12 13:50:36
Sylph.Kiaru said: Umm they don't shout for RDM's because it's common sense you want a WHM for healer, melee with either red/yellow/TH for tank and BLM/BRD for procs. 4th slot+ goes to blu.
Apparently, but if they're idiots... then they would invite the "less effective one" (by your standards).
Also, implying RDM is only a healer.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4212
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-12 13:51:46
Sylph.Kiaru said: Umm they don't shout for RDM's because it's common sense you want a WHM for healer, melee with either red/yellow/TH for tank and BLM/BRD for procs. 4th slot+ goes to blu. You not seeing rdm in a shout doesn't mean people don't use them or they have no use. This is the point that is being made.
But enough of that, what exactly do you want for rdm anyway? What is your point in all these circular arguments.
Sylph.Kiaru
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-12 13:55:44
Bravery, faith or buffs that turn players into "demigods" as SE said and potent enfeebles that actually land on everything.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4212
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-12 14:00:46
Sylph.Kiaru said: Bravery, faith or buffs that turn players into "demigods" as SE said and potent enfeebles that actually land on everything. Oh, I see so you want rdm to be broken awesome? Well if that's it then I'll just go ask the devs!
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2011-08-12 15:15:18
Carbuncle.Tweeek said: you're now making a general statement that implies idiots have common sense?
People shouting for groups generally follow powerful jobs (which is why SAM ONRY was so rampant at 75 cap), and it doesn't take much brainpower to figure out that RDM inside Abyssea is purely supplementary and adds little.
I'm not crucifying RDM or saying nobody should play it etc, just stating the harsh facts. I too loved RDM once.
and still do for .. reasons
Quote: Oh, I see so you want rdm to be broken awesome? Well if that's it then I'll just go ask the devs!
Well you want something which makes RDM excellent, rather than "WHM with slightly more powerful enfeebles but much inferior healing"
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1907
By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-08-12 15:29:09
Lakshmi.Naokoyume said: /Whm, /blm, and /sch are all good subs, and they all have their place. The trick is knowing when to use them - and if you're fighting tunga without a lot of help, you really should be /whm. Supporting your group is much more important than a little bit of fastcast and stratagems. Let's just end the bickering with this, guyz
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Ragnarok.Sekundes
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4212
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-12 15:30:47
Bahamut.Raenryong said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: you're now making a general statement that implies idiots have common sense?
People shouting for groups generally follow powerful jobs (which is why SAM ONRY was so rampant at 75 cap), and it doesn't take much brainpower to figure out that RDM inside Abyssea is purely supplementary and adds little.
I'm not crucifying RDM or saying nobody should play it etc, just stating the harsh facts. I too loved RDM once.
and still do for .. reasons
Quote: Oh, I see so you want rdm to be broken awesome? Well if that's it then I'll just go ask the devs!
Well you want something which makes RDM excellent, rather than "WHM with slightly more powerful enfeebles but much inferior healing" I do want something that makes rdm excellent but asking to be able to land enfeebs on everything is unrealistic. I'd prefer to focus on asking for things we might actually get but most of all a change in the system that's put my chapeau in storage.
Sylph.Kiaru
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-12 15:35:34
Why is that unrealistic? That's like saying WHM shouldn't be able to heal everyone, the main healer should have a random chance of people being zombied passively.
RDM has A+ enfeebling and is the enfeebling specialist, it should be able to enfeeble EVERYTHING.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4212
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-12 15:44:47
Sylph.Kiaru said: Why is that unrealistic? That's like saying WHM shouldn't be able to heal everyone, the main healer should have a random chance of people being zombied passively.
RDM has A+ enfeebling and is the enfeebling specialist, it should be able to enfeeble EVERYTHING. What is this... I don't even.
Camate said: Greetings red mages!
Thanks for all of your feedback and sorry to keep you waiting! Here are a handful of responses we got from the development team in regards to your questions and requests.
Quote: Do you have any plans to enhance the viability of our sword-wielding proficiency?
As was stated in the preface of the job adjustments concept, the core concept of these adjustments is to make each job useful in HNM fights as well as other battle-related content. That said, we mentioned that the job adjustments will focus on party structuring, but that doesn’t mean that we will not be looking into the sword-wielding proficiency of red mages. We are actually planning adjustments to red mage’s proficiencies in the upcoming version update.
Quote: Make it possible to add enfeebling effects to En-spells.
We have no plans for this at the moment. When looking at the current system, where enfeebles take place using magic and En-spells increase damage, we’re pretty satisfied with the current separation of the two.
Quote: Add higher tier En-spells.
Planning to add these during the next version update. However, this isn’t going to be the tier-III version, we are thinking about a different type of En-spell.
Quote: Add an ability that enhances the effect of En-spells.
We would like to look into perhaps having this take place through merit points.
Quote: Make it possible for red mage to use Enlight and Endark.
Enlight and Endark are special magic spells for paladin and dark knight respectively and we have no plans to add them to red mage at this time.
Quote: Get rid of the 100% enfeeble resists on some monsters.
In regards to monsters that are completely resistant to certain spells, there is a high possibility that we won’t make any significant changes. However, there aren’t really too many of these monsters, so in regards to adjustments making it possible to land enfeebling magic easier, we feel it would be better for red mage’s to experience this effect on a larger amount of monsters.
Quote: Add new enhancing magic.
Since enhancing magic is an area that red mages excel at, we would like to add something. We have been receiving a lot of ideas for enhancing magic and we will be keeping them in mind when exploring this subject.
Quote: Will red mage be able to the use the higher tier Gravity?
We are planning to make this spell a red mage-specific spell, but are continuing to evaluate it.
Quote: Allow red mages to use one-hand sword weapon skills that can only be used by certain jobs and support jobs. We also want staff weapon skills.
We will be looking into both of these along with the weapon skills revamp.
Quote: Give red mage the “Fencer” job trait!
We looked into this, however, if we were to add this it wouldn’t be a job trait. The possibility is pretty high that it would be in the form of equipment that a red mage could wear.
Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11518-Job-Adjustment%EF%BD%93-Manifesto-RDM?p=165408&viewfull=1#post165408
Mostly disappointing stuff and wasted questions. I welcome whatever Melee buffs we get (i used to melee a lot on RDM but I'm planning on an Almace for BLU and RDM), but I'm facepalming that SE is denying us Fencer as a job trait. lol@GearWeWillNeverUseOverHaste >_>
It also doesn't say much for the backline crowd. Can't say we're Enfeebling Masters if we're still getting our most powerful enfeebles resisted on HNMs. And can we just get Quick Magic, Elemental Stave-like Swords/Daggers, Regen III and Extremely useful Debuffs already? =\
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