Sylph.Kiaru said:
Siren.Kalilla said:
people can come any damn job / subjob they want Kiaru, its a game
RDM Job Manifesto
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RDM Job Manifesto
We could all play pup/rng, but would it get stuff done? No.. Sylph.Kiaru said: They should level a useful job or not try to lowman on a horrible lowman job. I ONLY had 90 RDM for the longest time, and even me and my LS understood that we needed a WHM to do things, and I was a pure support non-useful job, I didn't help being there and we still needeed the norm NIN WHM BLM etc there to cover all the important things(#1 thing is actually being able to heal, which a rdm fails at inside). Just cause someone comes RDM doesn't mean I don't always make sure we are covered in every aspect. You're implying that I am having someone come RDM but we don't have WHM, NIN, WAR, THF, BLU, BLM, BRD when we need em which just isn't the case. Just cause I have the ability to low man doesn't mean I am always lowmaning either, excuse me for having friends. Sylph.Kiaru said: This was a lowman discussion You decided it was lowman discussion and were talking to hear yourself talk about lowman. No one else restricted the discussion to lowman and no one was talking about lowman on RDM in Abyssea. You know how I know this? Cause I'm the one that brought up making someone come /WHM for Tunga. Sylph.Kiaru said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: I don't have RDM but when RDMs and BLMs come to our LS events for stuff that requires -na spams I just make them come /WHM. Tunga comes to mind The RDMs and BLMs don't like /WHM but w/e the more Stonas we can have the better. We try to keep slowga off the DD/Tanks and on the mages but sometimes that little flea just likes to hop around too quick breakga-ing the whole world. Might as well have your melee sub WHM at that point :/ WHM is gimp as hell except when you need stona on RDM, but you shouldn't need stona if you have good whm's around. a blm should never sub whm ever unless they're porting themselves/someone.. What? When friends level new jobs and there's nothing more interesting going on, it's easy to go duo NMs as THF/NIN + BLM/WHM and crank out a few random AF3+1 pieces. In that kind of situation, there's no nay in hell I'd give up Haste and status cures from /WHM - not to mention that it'd be dumb for me to go RDM main and give up two additional trigger spells for no good reason.
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Yeah, I'm implying that because you said trio. Don't talk about trio/lowman then change to "WELL THEY'RE COMING RDM WHEN WE HAVE ALL ROLES/PROCS COVERED!" I already said lowman RDM fails, RDM is fine when everything else is covered.
Asura.Eeek said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: I don't have RDM but when RDMs and BLMs come to our LS events for stuff that requires -na spams I just make them come /WHM. Tunga comes to mind The RDMs and BLMs don't like /WHM but w/e the more Stonas we can have the better. We try to keep slowga off the DD/Tanks and on the mages but sometimes that little flea just likes to hop around too quick breakga-ing the whole world. Might as well have your melee sub WHM at that point :/ WHM is gimp as hell except when you need stona on RDM, but you shouldn't need stona if you have good whm's around. a blm should never sub whm ever unless they're porting themselves/someone.. What? When friends level new jobs and there's nothing more interesting going on, it's easy to go duo NMs as THF/NIN + BLM/WHM and crank out a few random AF3+1 pieces. In that kind of situation, there's no nay in hell I'd give up Haste and status cures from /WHM - not to mention that it'd be dumb for me to go RDM main and give up two additional trigger spells for no good reason. Sylph.Kiaru said: Yeah, I'm implying that because you said trio. Don't talk about trio/lowman then change to "WELL THEY'RE COMING RDM WHEN WE HAVE ALL ROLES/PROCS COVERED!" I already said lowman RDM fails, RDM is fine when everything else is covered. you said "without a lot of support" long before I said I was able to trio Tunga. I wasn't discussing lowman I was just saying it's possible without a lot of support. When we trio it's NIN WAR WHM. Quote: A. you can trio Tunga with all red procs so lol @ "fighting tunga without a lot of help" just cause we don't have 2 WHMs doesn't mean we are low manning 24x7 and even with 2 WHMs Tunga is the type of NM that it never hurts having extra Stonas around Quote: You decided it was lowman discussion and were talking to hear yourself talk about lowman. No one else restricted the discussion to lowman and no one was talking about lowman on RDM in Abyssea. Carbuncle.Tweeek said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Yeah, I'm implying that because you said trio. Don't talk about trio/lowman then change to "WELL THEY'RE COMING RDM WHEN WE HAVE ALL ROLES/PROCS COVERED!" I already said lowman RDM fails, RDM is fine when everything else is covered. you said "without a lot of support" long before I said I was able to trio Tunga. I wasn't discussing lowman I was just saying it's possible without a lot of support. When we trio it's NIN WAR WHM. Sylph.Kiaru said: Yeah, I'm implying that because you said trio. Don't talk about trio/lowman then change to "WELL THEY'RE COMING RDM WHEN WE HAVE ALL ROLES/PROCS COVERED!" I already said lowman RDM fails, RDM is fine when everything else is covered. Gotcha. I'll have my friends drop the 100+ Bria Helms we trioed as NIN, WAR (THF for Bria), and me on RDM. Sylph.Kiaru said: Having 2 WHM's is always better than having a RDM + WHM inside abyssea. Stop bringing rdm's to abyssea it's bad. If you're trioing with a RDM, I'm sorry. A botted or dual boxed WHM would be better than that RDM. Okay, case closed. The judge has spoken. BRB deleting account and making a WHM bot.  On a serious note, can you think of something else to say? Saying RDM is bad doesn't make it bad just because you said so. You realized you lost the SCH sub argument and went off topic. This cat is pushing a watermelon out of a lake, your argument is invalid, etc. I started by saying this:
Carbuncle.Tweeek said: I don't have RDM but when RDMs and BLMs come to our LS events for stuff that requires -na spams I just make them come /WHM. Tunga comes to mind The RDMs and BLMs don't like /WHM but w/e the more Stonas we can have the better. We try to keep slowga off the DD/Tanks and on the mages but sometimes that little flea just likes to hop around too quick breakga-ing the whole world. I did not mention lowman at all or trio but you replied with the following statements none of which mention lowman. This was also all before I mentioned I had the ability to trio Tunga with all red procs if I wanted to. Sylph.Kiaru said: Making a BLM and RDM sub whm is basically telling them "You aren't allowed to have a subjob today". Might as well have your melee sub WHM at that point :/ WHM is gimp as hell except when you need stona on RDM, but you shouldn't need stona if you have good whm's around. a blm should never sub whm ever unless they're porting themselves/someone.. Sylph.Kiaru said: Nope, I'm RDM main and subbing WHM makes me feel like I don't have a sub at all. It's horrible, all it gives over /sch is stona and viruna. /sch is better for other na's because of access to accession, faster cast via light arts and celerity(mainly use this for doom). Sylph.Kiaru said: The first problem is you're bringing a RDM to abyssea, fix this first. If you're fighting tunga without a lot of help you shouldn't be RDM in the first place, waste of a party slot. Can't stona without a gimp sub, horrible cures, no red procs, don't need yellow, etc. My mule has WHM and brd leveled, so I just cast stona on them over gimping myself to death on RDM anyways. Abyssea is a joke. Sylph.Kiaru said: They should level a useful job or not try to lowman on a horrible lowman job. I ONLY had 90 RDM for the longest time, and even me and my LS understood that we needed a WHM to do things, and I was a pure support non-useful job, I didn't help being there and we still needeed the norm NIN WHM BLM etc there to cover all the important things(#1 thing is actually being able to heal, which a rdm fails at inside). I'm pure support. I have RDM, and I leveled WHM purely to pick up where RDM didn't work (although I do love whm as well). Saying RDM is useless is just silly. Weren't you just talking about bringing /sch to nuke earlier? There are plenty of NMs in Abyssea where nukes and enfeebles help and speed things up. Whm is generally unnecessary on a good portion of things in visions zones, such as Chloris farming. In fact, my friend and I duo-farmed gold boxes with rdm/sch puller and his war fell cleaving, with a couple of friends (dual-boxed) for KI-holding. A whm can't do that. We also killed 25+ Cirein-croins with blm and rdm faster than the time most people spend getting their alliance charmed and running around like idiots. That's not to say that Chloris or Cirein are all that challenging, but there's no reason to need a whm for those fights if you don't need lightday procs. As I said, if we don't need cure spams, then we don't need whm. Also, rdm can still do well with support. My rdm has 42% cure potency, and I'm hoping for 45% with some zenith pumps. Combine that with the fact that you can essentially spam c4 with composure down if absolutely necessary, and also how hardy the job can be in case you do get hate (particularly with a good pdt set), it's not all that bad. It's still useful. EDIT - I should say, our goal tends to be to low-man as much as possible, with no more than three-four people. We are sometimes missing blu procs when that fourth person is unavailable, but I can usually dualbox him anyway. Asura.Eeek said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Yeah, I'm implying that because you said trio. Don't talk about trio/lowman then change to "WELL THEY'RE COMING RDM WHEN WE HAVE ALL ROLES/PROCS COVERED!" I already said lowman RDM fails, RDM is fine when everything else is covered. Gotcha. I'll have my friends drop the 100+ Bria Helms we trioed as NIN, WAR (THF for Bria), and me on RDM. A 2nd WHM would also be better than a RDM for 4 manning tunga, better cures, another benediction for "oh ***" moments, better -na's, another divine caress, faster cures, etc. Any situation you can find that a RDM is "acceptable", another WHM will always be better. That's the point, that's also why you never see RDM's inside abyssea, or see shouts for them. There's a reason for that, argue all day, you're wrong. Sylph.Kiaru said: Asura.Eeek said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Yeah, I'm implying that because you said trio. Don't talk about trio/lowman then change to "WELL THEY'RE COMING RDM WHEN WE HAVE ALL ROLES/PROCS COVERED!" I already said lowman RDM fails, RDM is fine when everything else is covered. Gotcha. I'll have my friends drop the 100+ Bria Helms we trioed as NIN, WAR (THF for Bria), and me on RDM. Derp. Sylph.Kiaru said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Yeah, I'm implying that because you said trio. Don't talk about trio/lowman then change to "WELL THEY'RE COMING RDM WHEN WE HAVE ALL ROLES/PROCS COVERED!" I already said lowman RDM fails, RDM is fine when everything else is covered. you said "without a lot of support" long before I said I was able to trio Tunga. I wasn't discussing lowman I was just saying it's possible without a lot of support. When we trio it's NIN WAR WHM. I've duoed many NM's as RDM, and got yellow proc several times. BLM gets more, but if it's nothing major like a Tier III VNM or zone boss, it usually doesn't matter. I know it's just random chance(and day of the week) but I've proc'ed with Dispel many times. Just because it's not optimal, doesn't mean it's useless. Not everyone has a pocket BLM to carry around, and maybe you just feel like duoing with a friend and don't want to shout for a random pick-up person. Also, switching your rdm to a whm isn't going to help you cover any extra procs. In fact, unless it's lightsday, you're going to be losing procs.
I have to agree with Kiaru here. In a perfect world, RDM has little to no place except for wearing Warlock's Tights. It's very sad but just how it is... however, I feel "useless" is too harsh because while certainly not optimal, it's not useless.
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Sylph.Kiaru said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Yeah, I'm implying that because you said trio. Don't talk about trio/lowman then change to "WELL THEY'RE COMING RDM WHEN WE HAVE ALL ROLES/PROCS COVERED!" I already said lowman RDM fails, RDM is fine when everything else is covered. you said "without a lot of support" long before I said I was able to trio Tunga. I wasn't discussing lowman I was just saying it's possible without a lot of support. When we trio it's NIN WAR WHM. We don't trio Tunga with RDM means it's useless? k I've trio'd with RDM in the same exact scenario that Eeek described as well. Sylph.Kiaru said: Asura.Eeek said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Yeah, I'm implying that because you said trio. Don't talk about trio/lowman then change to "WELL THEY'RE COMING RDM WHEN WE HAVE ALL ROLES/PROCS COVERED!" I already said lowman RDM fails, RDM is fine when everything else is covered. Gotcha. I'll have my friends drop the 100+ Bria Helms we trioed as NIN, WAR (THF for Bria), and me on RDM. A 2nd WHM would also be better than a RDM for 4 manning tunga, better cures, another benediction for "oh ***" moments, better -na's, another divine caress, faster cures, etc. Any situation you can find that a RDM is "acceptable", another WHM will always be better. That's the point, that's also why you never see RDM's inside abyssea, or see shouts for them. There's a reason for that, argue all day, you're wrong. Sylph.Kiaru said: Asura.Eeek said: Sylph.Kiaru said: Yeah, I'm implying that because you said trio. Don't talk about trio/lowman then change to "WELL THEY'RE COMING RDM WHEN WE HAVE ALL ROLES/PROCS COVERED!" I already said lowman RDM fails, RDM is fine when everything else is covered. Gotcha. I'll have my friends drop the 100+ Bria Helms we trioed as NIN, WAR (THF for Bria), and me on RDM. Get over yourself. RDM sure did work well enough to finish several of those Level 80 Empyrean stages! Of the three (sometimes 4) of us who did this, none of us had WHM leveled. Does this mean we should have hung around in Port Jeuno all sad and bored? F**k that. We decided to get s**t done with the jobs we had. And gasp! - we trioed a lot of the Sobek Skins too. ;) Lakshmi.Naokoyume said: Also, switching your rdm to a whm isn't going to help you cover any extra procs. In fact, unless it's lightsday, you're going to be losing procs. You can't say a job is useful because it can heal things that can be solod by nin/dnc, sorry. It also does matter to me if someone isn't doing things the best way possible, because it means a job is weak and SE needs to buff it and readjust it and make it useful. Feeling very weak and useless isn't fun, it's why I only play NIN in abyssea now. I could go solo everything nin/dnc and take 4000x longer than someone using an optimal job combo, wasting not only my time, but other peoples times(especially on stuff like guku). That's also why it's bad, you're wasting other peoples time by killing slower. The best part about this is I'm arguing for situations in which /WHM is feasible and where RDM will work but Kiaru is acting like we are all saying RDM is better than WHM which no one is implying. If RDM can get the job done in specific current situations than how can it be considered useless?
Keep in mind.. I don't even have RDM, I am WHM onry By that logic, if a NIN/DNC can get the job done then WHM is also useless. You can't name things a nin/dnc can solo and do it with 3 and say "WELL RDM WORKED FINE HERE!", it doesn't work like that. A WAR/WHM could heal in that situation, does that mean War/whm is a good combo? Nah.
That's another thing, a war could sub WHM and literally heal as well as a rdm/sch inside abyssea LOL. This is why RDM is trash inside.(So can blm/whm, brd/whm, drk/whm, pld/whm, etc -_-). Sylph.Kiaru said: Lakshmi.Naokoyume said: Also, switching your rdm to a whm isn't going to help you cover any extra procs. In fact, unless it's lightsday, you're going to be losing procs. Man, you're just jumping everywhere with your inane arguments now, aren't you? Nobody mentioned tunga for a number of posts. We're not talking about only tunga, it was a single example on the last page. If you're duoing and you have the choice of DD+whm or DD+rdm, which you'd mentioned with your reply about the Briarius thing, the rdm would be better purely for having a single extra proc, not to mention the fact that the enfeebles and nukes would BE MORE HELPFUL. Jesus, how many times does it need to be said? If you don't need cure spam, going rdm (or hell, anything else with a enough curing power) for nukes and enfeebles is more useful than whm. Whm is not the perfect go-to job for everything. And thats why red mage needs cure V....
Bahamut.Raenryong said: I have to agree with Kiaru here. In a perfect world, RDM has little to no place except for wearing Warlock's Tights. It's very sad but just how it is... however, I feel "useless" is too harsh because while certainly not optimal, it's not useless. A WHM is still a better healer for bria, and a war/whm bst/whm brd/whm any job/whm is equal to a rdm mainhealing bria, so no.
that's your logic... you're the only one saying anything about a job being useless or a sub job. We are letting you know that there are situations that it's not useless. Not everyone has every single job leveled. Not every situation allows people to bring the absolute best job selections.
If we had 3 people with the following jobs leveled wanting to kill Bria A: WHM and THF B: NIN and BLU C: RDM and WAR All of us would go THF, NIN, RDM. But you would either just sit in your mog house on THF hoping another WHM signed online. Or you would go WHM NIN WAR and have no TH. You also only look at jobs per fight as if people are no longer allowed to fight more than 1 NM in a zone without changing jobs. Sylph.Kiaru said: It also does matter to me if someone isn't doing things the best way possible, because it means a job is weak and SE needs to buff it and readjust it and make it useful. Feeling very weak and useless isn't fun, it's why I only play NIN in abyssea now. |
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