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RDM Job Manifesto
Server: Siren
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By Siren.Screamingbabies 2011-08-12 10:16:08
Siren.Screamingbabies said: Asura.Calatilla said: If you're locked into one mode such as healing then /sch is great. But it takes away rdm`s versatility. As Eeek said, you cant just randomly throw a nuke at a mob as /sch without having to either switch arts or take a hit on mp cost.
Using and managing job abilities is hard guyz
Sorry my bad.
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 Asura.Eeek
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By Asura.Eeek 2011-08-12 10:22:18
Asura.Calatilla said: If you're locked into one mode such as healing then /sch is great. But it takes away rdm`s versatility. As Eeek said, you cant just randomly throw a nuke at a mob as /sch without having to either switch arts or take a hit on mp cost.
Even with a gimpy 11MP/tick refresh (7 from spell and 4 from gear), I don't really care much about the MP cost of nuking in Light Arts/Addendum:White - it's the prolonged casting time and recast that bugs the hell out of me. It feels like nuking puddings on BLM back in the 75 days but with /WHM instead of /RDM.
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By Siren.Screamingbabies 2011-08-12 10:23:46
Asura.Eeek said: Siren.Screamingbabies said: Asura.Calatilla said: If you're locked into one mode such as healing then /sch is great. But it takes away rdm`s versatility. As Eeek said, you cant just randomly throw a nuke at a mob as /sch without having to either switch arts or take a hit on mp cost.
Using a ja is hard guyz
If I'm /SCH, then I'm going to abuse the ***out of every available charge - whether I'm playing a support role or a nuking/crowd control role. I do not like swapping arts/addenda and wasting charges for one spell (like a T4 nuke) unless it's necessary.
Unless i missed something rdm gets tier4s natively (and /sch wont even be high enough to give you tier4s anyway so you don't need to be in an addendum)...sooooooo what charge you be usin there? Obviously you can use stratagems, but you aren't required too. You get enough of a bonus just from having the arts on... So, if you be usin stratagems all willynilly its not a problem with the (sub)job, it's a problem with you.
Asura.Eeek
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By Asura.Eeek 2011-08-12 10:30:09
Siren.Screamingbabies said: Asura.Eeek said: Siren.Screamingbabies said: Asura.Calatilla said: If you're locked into one mode such as healing then /sch is great. But it takes away rdm`s versatility. As Eeek said, you cant just randomly throw a nuke at a mob as /sch without having to either switch arts or take a hit on mp cost.
Using a ja is hard guyz
If I'm /SCH, then I'm going to abuse the ***out of every available charge - whether I'm playing a support role or a nuking/crowd control role. I do not like swapping arts/addenda and wasting charges for one spell (like a T4 nuke) unless it's necessary.
Unless i missed something rdm gets tier4s natively (and /sch wont even be high enough to give you tier4s anyway so you don't need to be in an addendum)...sooooooo what charge you be usin there? Obviously you can use stratagems, but you aren't required too. You get enough of a bonus just from having the arts on... So, if you be usin stratagems all willynilly its not a problem with the (sub)job, it's a problem with you.
Light Arts alone does not give access to -na spells.
Carbuncle.Tweeek
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By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-12 10:40:04
I don't have RDM but when RDMs and BLMs come to our LS events for stuff that requires -na spams I just make them come /WHM.
Tunga comes to mind
The RDMs and BLMs don't like /WHM but w/e the more Stonas we can have the better. We try to keep slowga off the DD/Tanks and on the mages but sometimes that little flea just likes to hop around too quick breakga-ing the whole world.
Carbuncle.Tweeek
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By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-12 10:43:24
prolly more than that but only Adza is remotely close to being as annoying that I can think of off the top of my head
NMs that single petra is nbd
Asura.Eeek
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By Asura.Eeek 2011-08-12 10:46:34
That's true, but until the level cap rises in a few weeks, RDM/SCH also lacks Viruna. I'll never leave town RDM/SCH if Stona is needed, but I've been caught with my pants down a few times when I couldn't cast Viruna. :/
Carbuncle.Tweeek
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By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-12 10:47:57
lol no friggen wonder I'm the only one throwing those out in events, didn't realize rdm/sch didn't get
Carbuncle.Tweeek
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By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-12 10:48:59
we just finished a finished phase 85 ukon last night so I don't have to fight Tunga for a while yay!
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By Siren.Screamingbabies 2011-08-12 10:56:06
Asura.Eeek said: Siren.Screamingbabies said: Asura.Eeek said: Siren.Screamingbabies said: Asura.Calatilla said: If you're locked into one mode such as healing then /sch is great. But it takes away rdm`s versatility. As Eeek said, you cant just randomly throw a nuke at a mob as /sch without having to either switch arts or take a hit on mp cost.
Using a ja is hard guyz
If I'm /SCH, then I'm going to abuse the ***out of every available charge - whether I'm playing a support role or a nuking/crowd control role. I do not like swapping arts/addenda and wasting charges for one spell (like a T4 nuke) unless it's necessary.
Unless i missed something rdm gets tier4s natively (and /sch wont even be high enough to give you tier4s anyway so you don't need to be in an addendum)...sooooooo what charge you be usin there? Obviously you can use stratagems, but you aren't required too. You get enough of a bonus just from having the arts on... So, if you be usin stratagems all willynilly its not a problem with the (sub)job, it's a problem with you.
Light Arts alone does not give access to -na spells.
You mentioned tier4s. Just wondering why you thought you had to use a stratagem for nukes.
Na spells: use the addendum white for them when needed? If you keep going back and forth and run out of stratagems it's quite clear that your group needs you more for healing then for throwing random gimp t4s. Is it that hard?
I will admit /sch isn't always the best subjob, but seriously, refusing to use /sch when it is the right subjob because "it's annoying" is right up there with refusing to gear swap. You're intentionally gimping yourself because you don't want to hit an extra button.
Sylph.Kiaru
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By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-12 11:08:20
Carbuncle.Tweeek said: I don't have RDM but when RDMs and BLMs come to our LS events for stuff that requires -na spams I just make them come /WHM.
Tunga comes to mind
The RDMs and BLMs don't like /WHM but w/e the more Stonas we can have the better. We try to keep slowga off the DD/Tanks and on the mages but sometimes that little flea just likes to hop around too quick breakga-ing the whole world. Making a BLM and RDM sub whm is basically telling them "You aren't allowed to have a subjob today".
Might as well have your melee sub WHM at that point :/ WHM is gimp as hell except when you need stona on RDM, but you shouldn't need stona if you have good whm's around. a blm should never sub whm ever unless they're porting themselves/someone..
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By Asura.Dajociont 2011-08-12 11:14:56
Sylph.Kiaru said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: I don't have RDM but when RDMs and BLMs come to our LS events for stuff that requires -na spams I just make them come /WHM.
Tunga comes to mind
The RDMs and BLMs don't like /WHM but w/e the more Stonas we can have the better. We try to keep slowga off the DD/Tanks and on the mages but sometimes that little flea just likes to hop around too quick breakga-ing the whole world. Making a BLM and RDM sub whm is basically telling them "You aren't allowed to have a subjob today".
Might as well have your melee sub WHM at that point :/ WHM is gimp as hell except when you need stona on RDM, but you shouldn't need stona if you have good whm's around. a blm should never sub whm ever unless they're porting themselves/someone..
are you trolling? please tell me you are
Sylph.Kiaru
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By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-12 11:18:29
Nope, I'm RDM main and subbing WHM makes me feel like I don't have a sub at all. It's horrible, all it gives over /sch is stona and viruna. /sch is better for other na's because of access to accession, faster cast via light arts and celerity(mainly use this for doom).
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By Lakshmi.Naokoyume 2011-08-12 11:18:59
Sylph.Kiaru said:
Making a BLM and RDM sub whm is basically telling them "You aren't allowed to have a subjob today".
Okay, while I do love /sch and agree that it's silly to write it off, what you said just now is even worse. Refusing to /whm for Tunga? That's just completely ridiculous. An extra stona or two is a great thing, and there is absolutely no reason to rely on a single stona for Tunga.
/Whm, /blm, and /sch are all good subs, and they all have their place. The trick is knowing when to use them - and if you're fighting tunga without a lot of help, you really should be /whm. Supporting your group is much more important than a little bit of fastcast and stratagems.
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By Asura.Dajociont 2011-08-12 11:19:08
lol
Sylph.Kiaru
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By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-12 11:21:33
The first problem is you're bringing a RDM to abyssea, fix this first. If you're fighting tunga without a lot of help you shouldn't be RDM in the first place, waste of a party slot. Can't stona without a gimp sub, horrible cures, no red procs, don't need yellow, etc.
My mule has WHM and brd leveled, so I just cast stona on them over gimping myself to death on RDM anyways. Abyssea is a joke.
Bismarck.Eburo
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By Bismarck.Eburo 2011-08-12 11:21:36
Sylph.Kiaru said: Carbuncle.Tweeek said: I don't have RDM but when RDMs and BLMs come to our LS events for stuff that requires -na spams I just make them come /WHM.
Tunga comes to mind
The RDMs and BLMs don't like /WHM but w/e the more Stonas we can have the better. We try to keep slowga off the DD/Tanks and on the mages but sometimes that little flea just likes to hop around too quick breakga-ing the whole world. Making a BLM and RDM sub whm is basically telling them "You aren't allowed to have a subjob today".
Might as well have your melee sub WHM at that point :/ WHM is gimp as hell except when you need stona on RDM, but you shouldn't need stona if you have good whm's around. a blm should never sub whm ever unless they're porting themselves/someone..
I've almost lost faith, when your WHMs have the same mentality as you, do you really expect them to not just run into Breakga and try to cast Barpetra or something?
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By Lakshmi.Naokoyume 2011-08-12 11:30:45
There are plenty of things that RDM+DD or RDM+BLM duos work just fine for inside Abyssea. When that doesn't work, I go WHM. Simple as that. There's no reason to completely ignore your favourite job when it can still be perfectly useful.
And anyway, why do you say this now, after people have already mentioned Abyssea a number of times? Last ditch effort?
EDIT - In any case, there are times outside abyssea where you still need stona/viruna, and these instances are even more easily lowman-able these days.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-12 11:35:19
Most any event that would benefit from /sch more than /whm for myself, I'll be happy to bring my alt on whm/sch rather than my main on rdm/sch. It's far more useful. Not everyone has that option but I do so this is one of the reasons why I have the preferences that I do. I understand people making different choices than I do and that's fine but saying my methods are wrong, are "Like not having a sub" or lazy? Don't you all think that's just a little over the top? I've not claimed that /sch sucks and it has no use. I'm simply offering one rdm's opinion on a few benefits of other subs...
As a note though... My rdm hasn't had a real use since the 90 cap came out. I usually just go blu.
Carbuncle.Tweeek
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By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-12 11:38:26
Sylph.Kiaru said: The first problem is you're bringing a RDM to abyssea, fix this first. If you're fighting tunga without a lot of help you shouldn't be RDM in the first place, waste of a party slot. Can't stona without a gimp sub, horrible cures, no red procs, don't need yellow, etc.
My mule has WHM and brd leveled, so I just cast stona on them over gimping myself to death on RDM anyways. Abyssea is a joke.
A. you can trio Tunga with all red procs so lol @ "fighting tunga without a lot of help" just cause we don't have 2 WHMs doesn't mean we are low manning 24x7 and even with 2 WHMs Tunga is the type of NM that it never hurts having extra Stonas around
B. not everyone has WHM some people come RDM, it doesn't mean they need to be kicked from the shell cause it's less effective.
C. Slowga resets hate.. the key is letting your WHM get Slowga on them but not get petrified, it doesn't always work out like this. You need to keep Slowga off of the DDs and on the WHM it's the only way I know to control hate against Tunga.
D. ***doesn't always go to plan and sometimes that flea jumps to the WHM with a break-ga waiting quicker than you can get Slowga off of the DD and they can regain hate.
E. You're acting like we build a party / alliance for 1 NM. We do many things in that zone we build the party / alliance for multiple fights so we cover all bases, so when you talk about no yellows etc it's stupid. We don't send everyone back to change jobs for every different fight. We farm boxes, grab more KI NMs, get reds!!, get yellows on Itz/Worms etc
P.S. Barstonra and Barpetra aren't that effective and Tunga spams dispelga EDIT: I mean Barstonra isn't that effective to help against petri not that it's ineffective to lower dmg from stone/ga
Asura.Eeek
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By Asura.Eeek 2011-08-12 11:41:13
Siren.Screamingbabies said: Asura.Eeek said: Siren.Screamingbabies said: Asura.Eeek said: Siren.Screamingbabies said: Asura.Calatilla said: If you're locked into one mode such as healing then /sch is great. But it takes away rdm`s versatility. As Eeek said, you cant just randomly throw a nuke at a mob as /sch without having to either switch arts or take a hit on mp cost.
Using a ja is hard guyz
If I'm /SCH, then I'm going to abuse the ***out of every available charge - whether I'm playing a support role or a nuking/crowd control role. I do not like swapping arts/addenda and wasting charges for one spell (like a T4 nuke) unless it's necessary.
Unless i missed something rdm gets tier4s natively (and /sch wont even be high enough to give you tier4s anyway so you don't need to be in an addendum)...sooooooo what charge you be usin there? Obviously you can use stratagems, but you aren't required too. You get enough of a bonus just from having the arts on... So, if you be usin stratagems all willynilly its not a problem with the (sub)job, it's a problem with you.
Light Arts alone does not give access to -na spells.
You mentioned tier4s. Just wondering why you thought you had to use a stratagem for nukes.
Na spells: use the addendum white for them when needed? If you keep going back and forth and run out of stratagems it's quite clear that your group needs you more for healing then for throwing random gimp t4s. Is it that hard?
I will admit /sch isn't always the best subjob, but seriously, refusing to use /sch when it is the right subjob because "it's annoying" is right up there with refusing to gear swap. You're intentionally gimping yourself because you don't want to hit an extra button.
Yes, I did mention Stratagems in conjunction with T4 nukes. Why?
1) I can choose to stay in Light Arts/Addendum:White and deal with the obnoxious cast time and recast time on nukes.
2) I can activate Dark Arts for the T4 (or several nukes) and then drop back into Light Arts/Addendum:White. This burns a Stratagem.
RDM/SCH can only store 2 Stratagems which recharge at a rate of one charge every two minutes. RDM simply doesn't have the same freedom to switch Arts and use Stratagems as often as SCH. Depending on my role, I fulltime either Addendum: White or Black. It makes little sense to only activate an Addendum once it's needed - that burns a Stratagem that otherwise could have easily been saved.
Besides, the cross-school casting penalties come from the Arts themselves and not the Addenda. I can't imagine why a RDM/SCH, in a support capacity, would sit in Light Arts without Addendum:White active.
I do love RDM/SCH at times, but one would have to be obtuse to overlook its constraints, and those constraints are more apparent on RDM then say, WHM or BLM.
Sylph.Kiaru
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By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-12 11:43:47
Having 2 WHM's is always better than having a RDM + WHM inside abyssea. Stop bringing rdm's to abyssea it's bad. If you're trioing with a RDM, I'm sorry. A botted or dual boxed WHM would be better than that RDM.
Carbuncle.Tweeek
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By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-08-12 11:45:09
Sylph.Kiaru said: Having 2 WHM's is always better than having a RDM + WHM inside abyssea. Stop bringing rdm's to abyssea it's bad. If you're trioing with a RDM, I'm sorry.
Ok thanks. I will let all my friends who have RDM and not WHM know that Kiaru told me I couldn't play with them anymore.
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By Lakshmi.Naokoyume 2011-08-12 11:48:00
Sylph.Kiaru said: Having 2 WHM's is always better than having a RDM + WHM inside abyssea. Stop bringing rdm's to abyssea it's bad. If you're trioing with a RDM, I'm sorry.
I guess you haven't really tried much, then. Having two whms is pretty overdone on a lot of things, and also possibly useless on anything that doesn't need cure spams or lightday procs. The better suggestion would be for you to tell me to level blu.
VIP
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By Siren.Kalilla 2011-08-12 11:48:15
people can come any damn job / subjob they want Kiaru, its a game
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Sylph.Kiaru
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By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-12 11:48:29
They should level a useful job or not try to lowman on a horrible lowman job. I ONLY had 90 RDM for the longest time, and even me and my LS understood that we needed a WHM to do things, and I was a pure support non-useful job, I didn't help being there and we still needeed the norm NIN WHM BLM etc there to cover all the important things(#1 thing is actually being able to heal, which a rdm fails at inside).
If two WHM's is useless, then the RDM should be coming BLM, blu, NIN, etc. This was a lowman discussion, but in the situation where all procs are covered, tank is covered, and healers are covered, then yes a RDM is fine to have. Doesn't provide much, is boring as hell to play inside abyssea, but doesn't hurt to bring along. This is what I experienced inside abyssea as RDM main. Like I said, lowman discussion though, and you don't use a RDM to lowman inside abyssea.
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By Asura.Dajociont 2011-08-12 11:50:00
brb sounding like a ***
Sylph.Kiaru
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By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-12 11:51:16
Siren.Kalilla said: people can come any damn job / subjob they want Kiaru, its a game We could all play pup/rng, but would it get stuff done? No..
Camate said: Greetings red mages!
Thanks for all of your feedback and sorry to keep you waiting! Here are a handful of responses we got from the development team in regards to your questions and requests.
Quote: Do you have any plans to enhance the viability of our sword-wielding proficiency?
As was stated in the preface of the job adjustments concept, the core concept of these adjustments is to make each job useful in HNM fights as well as other battle-related content. That said, we mentioned that the job adjustments will focus on party structuring, but that doesn’t mean that we will not be looking into the sword-wielding proficiency of red mages. We are actually planning adjustments to red mage’s proficiencies in the upcoming version update.
Quote: Make it possible to add enfeebling effects to En-spells.
We have no plans for this at the moment. When looking at the current system, where enfeebles take place using magic and En-spells increase damage, we’re pretty satisfied with the current separation of the two.
Quote: Add higher tier En-spells.
Planning to add these during the next version update. However, this isn’t going to be the tier-III version, we are thinking about a different type of En-spell.
Quote: Add an ability that enhances the effect of En-spells.
We would like to look into perhaps having this take place through merit points.
Quote: Make it possible for red mage to use Enlight and Endark.
Enlight and Endark are special magic spells for paladin and dark knight respectively and we have no plans to add them to red mage at this time.
Quote: Get rid of the 100% enfeeble resists on some monsters.
In regards to monsters that are completely resistant to certain spells, there is a high possibility that we won’t make any significant changes. However, there aren’t really too many of these monsters, so in regards to adjustments making it possible to land enfeebling magic easier, we feel it would be better for red mage’s to experience this effect on a larger amount of monsters.
Quote: Add new enhancing magic.
Since enhancing magic is an area that red mages excel at, we would like to add something. We have been receiving a lot of ideas for enhancing magic and we will be keeping them in mind when exploring this subject.
Quote: Will red mage be able to the use the higher tier Gravity?
We are planning to make this spell a red mage-specific spell, but are continuing to evaluate it.
Quote: Allow red mages to use one-hand sword weapon skills that can only be used by certain jobs and support jobs. We also want staff weapon skills.
We will be looking into both of these along with the weapon skills revamp.
Quote: Give red mage the “Fencer” job trait!
We looked into this, however, if we were to add this it wouldn’t be a job trait. The possibility is pretty high that it would be in the form of equipment that a red mage could wear.
Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11518-Job-Adjustment%EF%BD%93-Manifesto-RDM?p=165408&viewfull=1#post165408
Mostly disappointing stuff and wasted questions. I welcome whatever Melee buffs we get (i used to melee a lot on RDM but I'm planning on an Almace for BLU and RDM), but I'm facepalming that SE is denying us Fencer as a job trait. lol@GearWeWillNeverUseOverHaste >_>
It also doesn't say much for the backline crowd. Can't say we're Enfeebling Masters if we're still getting our most powerful enfeebles resisted on HNMs. And can we just get Quick Magic, Elemental Stave-like Swords/Daggers, Regen III and Extremely useful Debuffs already? =\
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