Atheists The New Theists ?

I can't vote with my beliefs but you can? That sounds fair.

Said before I could.

ITT: Critical thinking and skepticism result exclusively in atheism or agnosticism.

/sigh

Because that's what I said right?

I stated that saying "my beliefs don't affect you" is incorrect as they CLEARLY affect everyone around you.

The fact that you base your beliefs on mythologies and fancy does more than just placate your sense of helplessness, it degrades our society as a whole.

You have your "right" to vote based on those beliefs, and I'll never argue against that. I can however point out the downside of someone who votes based on motivations that derive from racism, homophobia, or religion.

edit: @Wombie:

Yes, religion is the absence of reason and thus voting based on theism is the absence of reason in voting. Hard concept I know.

Cause science doesn't have it's flaws either, ah ok.

Yes, this is true.
<3 Wombie.

"Science".

Science is just the method for applying a standard to what we hold to be factual.

So no, it's not flawed to apply standards to what we label as truth.

If you are asserting that man has made flaws when applying that standard, then sure.

That has nothing to do with religion and this topic however.

You are right. However, the word belief is such a broad term. People have beliefs about what is right or wrong. People have beliefs about the direction in which this country should spend its money.

Your argument is flawed in this matter. How is my belief about the creation of our universe affecting you in any way? (Backread about 3 pages if you haven't)

Actually, I want you to tell me how my beliefs are affecting you in any way.

And, if my beliefs are so powerful that they are affecting the voter turnout, you are clearly in a minority anyway, and when did the minorities start outweighing the majority when it comes to decision making?

Who cares about the topic, we're 9 pages in. You've taken this off topic not myself. You have a bad view on Religion and that's your view on things.

But hey, if you think Religion should be cast out because it is flawed then go join the groups still faithful to Hitler. He didn't want 'religion' to mess up his utopia either.

lol, religion is not "the absence of reason," nor is theism exclusive to religion.

I guess it is a hard concept.

Because we're not a mob rule. The majority may vote on an issue, but a given law must still be in parallel with the consitution and civil rights.

If the "mob rule" was the way we ran America, we'd be killing gays in the streets and enforcing religious tests on public offices in half our states.

I showed very clearly how theist "beliefs" affect the public legislative process, so you've already been corrected here.

The 2nd correction is the allegation that majority = right, in which case I just corrected you by informing you to the actuality of our legal system.

Let me know if you need anymore education.

@ Wombie:

Faith is literally the absence of reason. It is the concept of accepting something without evidence which is LITERALLY the opposite of reason/science.

Faith is the foundation of theism, religion is merely the archetype for each theistic belief. Don't attempt to conflate the two in an attempt to make one better than the other.

Faith and Reason have no overlaps, they are opposites.

VV! =D

Theistic circle jerks are fun!

No, majority doesn't equal right, it equals majority.

As info, not all religious people wantt to kill gays in the streets. Not even most. A few maybe.

You are making major assumptions about religion, which is why nothing you are saying is really holdoing up here.

TL;DR: Stop generalizing.

I'm not generalizing, I'm referencing what happens in every other theistic state in the world. Oh and history. Oh and fact.

In the absence of civil protection (i.e. mob rule), the most extreme aspects of each dogma dictate the status quo.

Check the middle east, get back to me when you've come to grasps with that fact.

edit: The point is - Everyone here has to admit: Belief DOES affect your fellow neighbors in a society where people can express those beliefs via legislation and voting (not to mention campaign contributions).

That fact is undeniable.

Whether it's "right" or "wrong", or reasonable, or a generalization is another argument. You MUST however give up that one premise and agree that beliefs do affect others.

But, you statement actually said I want to kill gays in the streets.

I know me pretty well.

I don't.

Actually I didn't say "you'd be killing gays", I said "we", as in America.

I'm an atheist and I haven't really disagreed with much of anything you've said so far in regards to the legislative process.
:/
so it's an atheist/theist circle jerk.
:D

which was a generalization about the majority of religious people.

You aren't religious silly.
I don't see how it's a generalization about the majority of religious people.
You are inferring that because a good deal of religious people hate on homosexuals.
That doesn't really fit the subset of atheists that hate gay people.
I have met approximately seven.

I accidentally blocked Nevill instead of quoting him.. Not sure how to undo that lol!

Theism can be very reasonable. While it is often established entirely on faith, it does not have to be.

Also, faith and reason do have overlaps. In fact, I don't know anyone who has any degree of faith in anything without having some *reason* for that faith.

You can't just say "Faith is literally the absence of reason" without considering all the various definitions for each term and all the different ways that people come to believe or accept ideas.

blocklist, top right in the user menu.

lol, accident, I bet!

@ Neo - I reference Hitler again. He based his beliefs (not faith) in science and that Genetics was truth to him. He mass murdered how many Jews? Science is not without fault in this argument. I think what we're looking at is the Radical groups. True Christians (followers of Christ, not an organization such as Baptists) follow the Bible and do not believe in Murder.


I actually agree with you. Scientists beliefs in Global Warming are making my monthly expenses go up.

YES only scientists make your bills bigger.

A lot of things make your bills bigger btw that most aren't even aware of.
:D
Did they make Gas prices go up too?
***.

Nope.

Let me explain:

The moment you make a logical leap and assign a conclusion to something that has no basis in the evidence, that is called faith.

The moment you make a hypothesis that IS based on evidence and passes peer reviews and observation, that is called reason.

There is no overlap.

They are by definition opposites.

Here is where you try and tell me our current theories take faith. Please be that guy. Please.

Oh boy, I go to eat and we encounter a No True Scotsmen and "HITLER WAS SCIENTIST AND EVILZ!" scenario.

@.@

That was all about generalizations.

Ex: Hitler was an athiest, all athiests are like Hitler.

Apparently, because I am religious, I want to kill gays in the streets.

That is one definition for "faith" and one definition for "reason."

You're isolating "reason" to strictly "scientific reason." I'm saying that 'reason' is much broader than 'scientific reason'.

To explain more clearly where I'm coming from:
Hypothetically, you have faith in your best friend because he's never let you down. That is to say, "he's never let you down" is your reason for having faith in him.

Do you see the overlap?

This is a different, broader definition for faith, which means something more simple, like "to trust." If someone's theistic faith was akin to this definition, it can very well be based in reason.