Atheists The New Theists ?

Wow, I loved that.

I'd like to meet the person that wrote that.

I am what you would call an ex-athiest. Suffice to say some crazy things happened to me and now I believe there IS a higher power out there. I'm not a "Bible Thumper" you can believe whatever you want, and I won't hold it against you, but the fact I'm living and here to type this is more than just random luck or the universe cut me a break. I subscribe to the teachings of Jesus Christ. In reference to an above post that states we are all athiests because we discredit Ra among other gods/godesses, well in the boox of Exodus we are tought to discredit them. #1 commandment 'Thou shalt have NO other gods above me' #2 'Thou shalt not make unto thyself any craven images or idols"
nuff said. My point is just because I dont believe in them dosent mean i'man athiest. The God I DO believe in tells me NOT to believe in the others.

Jesus Never Existed

Essay By Me

Because historical astrological records were accurately kept that long ago in history and even if they were no events could have ever possibly happened in which those records could have been destroyed? Totally dude!

You could be right, you could be wrong. People believe in what they want and disbelieve what they want. You aren't going to change that with out direct visible proof.

The point is who cares? Believe in your choices and yourself. Nothing matters except what you believe in and who you care for.

I'll decide when I die.

A lot of outspoken internet Atheists are just angry teenagers that hated going to church every Sunday when their friends were doing something else. People grow up and realize other things.

I can't say if you're wrong or right. But I used to be an an out spoken atheist myself all through high school and my teens. I have reasons to change my ways. I also never attended church Sunday nor have I ever attempted to force my beliefs on others.

I strongly disagree with you on this. Its mostly because you do not define your terms and make sweeping insulting inferences to theists. I will define "important areas of your life." The top 4 areas of importance would be who you call your mate, where you live, what you devote your life to (work) and who you call your god. I'll leave the last off the list because it is the basis for your statement.

First I would say that it is your culture or sub culture that is a bigger influence than religion. For instance if you grew up in China your culture would point you towards a particular religion, just as if you grew up in Afghanistan, or Zambia or the US. Also your sub culture of your family would further direct your choice in religion/non religion. So its the culture that has the dominate effect on your choices in that respect. We each make our own decisions and each of us has differing levels of "critical thinking," but given the same level of critical thinking and a different culture we would most likely choose the religion that was most dominate in the culture. Religion isnt at fault for our choices. We make our choices the best (sometimes not that great) based on the information that we have at the time. We are also creatures of habit and have egos. Given new information some maybe most will find it hard to change their opinion without an overwhelming reason to do so. Especially if it is one of the 4 top areas of importance in our lives.

Now onto the other "top areas." Our mate, will also largely be determined by our culture. They will be someone who shares many common areas with us. Most notably our other top 3 important areas. They may not work with us, but if they don't like our work something will have to give eventually. If you stray too far from commonalities in the top areas then you will have increased tension and usually a disconnect. Can you really say that if we do not reason as you do about religion that we are going to reason poorly about our choices in our mate? Are you saying that if I am religious that my choice in a mate is made with more frivolous reasons than if I shared your belief (or non belief) in religion?

How about the things I devote my life to? Are my choices for where I work, what charities I spend my time and money helping with and my time I spend with my family called into question because I have religious views different than your own? Can I not make rational decisions about where to work?

Finally where I live. Surely you cant mean that my religious beliefs call into question my ability to decide where to live. Which house or apartment, which city or town or even country to abide are quite connected to my religious views, right?

My point here is that this statements is either under defined or complete nonsense. Either way it is insulting.




Unfortunately this is also not true. The foundation of religious belief isn't counterproductive to society. It is the people that zero in on certain aspects of religious doctrine that are counterproductive to society. (See what I did there?)

It is the vocal or visible bad examples few that give the religion a bad rap. But this is inherently the case with all bad examples in life. Since slaver in America was whites dominating black, does that mean that all whites are horrid people because of what some did? How about when Tiger Woods cheated on his wife, does that mean that all men cheat? or maybe that all athletes cheat? or how about all golfers? How about when teen girls get pregnant, does that mean all teens have sex? Maybe since the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor we should lock up all Japanese? Or how about when some Arabs destroyed the World Trade Center we should all stare and shield our families from anyone wearing a turban?

Obviously the answer is no, but you know it happened. So why with religion do you focus on the vocal/visible contradictions and overlook the many great and noble things that religion has done? How about those "unalienable rights" given by God in our constitution, or the countless charities for everything from battered women to natural disasters, or maybe abolishing of slavery (Abraham Lincoln), or figuring out the world was round (Galileo Galilei), electromagnetism, the basis for countless things we take for granted (Michael Faraday), differential and integral calculus, laws of motion, gravitational theory and so much more (Isaac Newton), pasteurization, vaccines and microbiology (Louis Pasteur). Clearly these were not and are not counterproductive to society.

I do not know the basis for many religions, but I can say that the basis for Christianity is summed up in three statements: 1) Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Love him with all your strength and with all your mind. 2) Love your neighbor as you love yourself. 3) Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world. The first is the reason to do the second and third. If you find another reason to do the second and third then fine by me, but THIS is the basis of how a Christian is supposed to live. We are all people and we have our faults and do not live up to this standard all the time. But to bash religion is misplaced anger. It is the decision of people to call themselves by a title and act in a manner not in accordance with it.

Again your conclusions are faulty and insulting.

I am a Christian and proud of it. I am not perfect nor do I claim to be. I am tolerant of others choices. In the OP the Atheist guy seamed quite angry and intolerant of other views, which imho made him (in some respects) the exact picture of what the Aslan guy was complaining of. Honestly I find as much or more intolerance and name calling from the Atheist/Agnostic side than the Christian side. I do not look for debates on this subject, but will state my case if asked or if provoked by countless, exaggerated, insulting claims. I do hope there is more tolerance in opinions on these forums. There have been several tolerant people posting and have had good points. For that I thank you. I hope that we can all at least agree on the last two points of religion (even if we cant agree on the first). The world will be better for it. And that is the point.

tldr: way off track with these exaggerated, non critical, insulting claims.

Actually, that's exactly what it means. Pretend for a moment that Ra exists, and is the only god. So if you don't believe in Ra, you don't believe in god, or in other words, you're an atheist.

At Pewpewz, my opinion on Jesus is more or less this:


I think he existed, and was probably a hell of a guy (or a hell of a conman), and over the space of a couple thousand years, the stories about him have been exaggerated and misinterpreted to be the son of god. That's what I think about the whole bible actually (not that I've read it). It's all stories taken as fact, facts written as stories, symbolism or creative writing taken literally, and a whole bunch of exaggeration and misinterpretation.

(Please, no-one bother telling me I'm wrong, you can't prove it, and I don't care :D)

Exactly my point, religion keeps man in bondage and mental slavery. Threatens little children with eternal torture if they don't believe what they want. Prohibits stem cell research, atheists from joining the boyscouts(a publicly funded institution), and more, the list is over 100 long. I'll post more if your really interested... If mankind is to survive Religion must die. Plain and simple. It's so obviously made up.

Historical Astrological records were very well kept. Are you implying that the records surounding "jesus" himself were destroyed and only his? Because every other bronze age god that subscribed to the same characteristics as "Jesus" were very well documented in HISTORY.

Furthermore, the first book of the bible wasn't made until 70A.D. from a historical standpoint of what we can prove. Point is, no one that wrote about jesus, ever met him. It's all passed down information.

Just because millions of people believe it doesn't make them right. Name 1 bronze age ideal that we still cling on to today? The world is no longer flat, stars in the sky are no longer people that have died, the sun no longer revolves around the earth. We are no longer the center of the universe. The only reason we have still clung to the "Jesus" myth(which has been repeated non-stop for 1000 years prior to his supposive "birth") is because people are scared of death, and want to believe that something better happens after they die.

a·the·istnoun /ˈāTHēˌist/ 
atheists, plural

1.A person who does not believe in the existence of God or gods
I do belive in A God, therefore according to the English dictionary I am not an athiest.
In retort say you believe in Ra or whoever and they command you NOT to acknowledge ANY other god above them on penalty of your eternal soul burning in the fires of damnation. Would you acknowldge these other dieties as supreme beings? Now I acknowldge they existed as a matter of historical religious fact, but nothing more than idols.

I wish we were still more of a warrior society so that I could legitimately go to Valhalla instead of Heaven when I die. Bang Valkyries, Fight to death every day, then magically recover for a feast every single day! Man that would be just awesome.

There's a difference between worshiping and following ritual/dogma based on a deity, and acknowledging a deity as a historical and cultural figure amongst various religions.

I hate to break it to you, but those are specific over zealous people that cause those problems. Not individuals. Not all religious people believe in those paths or decisions. Also you are specifically referring to over zealous Christians and no other religion. You are anti-christian not Atheist.

EDIT: Regarding the historical documents. They were not historically kept very well and there are plenty of events in history that could have caused their destruction.

You need to do your research on who you believe, If you subscribe to jesus's "teachings" you should know that those teachings aren't his teachings, they are those of 1000 years of mediterranean gods passed down and skewed by religious leaders. There is 0 historical evidence for the existance of your jesus. Why some might be noble teachings, most of jesus's teachings are immoral and wrong.

Just read matthew, he says bring to me anyone who rejects me as thier lord, and have them put to death. That's just one.

Everyone is atheist, i just take it one god further. I'm anti all religion. Religious people have always tried to put thier hand into politics, there is no grey area, your arguement now is that just because some religious people mind thier own buisness that they aren't to blame. They follow and worship with the same people that are doing these things, it's not limited to a certain person. it's not like 1 person in a billion believers deciding to make life hard for non-believers. We are talking about HUGE chunks. Just because you don't doesn't mean religion is no longer wrong. If someone rapes your child, you will still hate all rapists. Because it is immoral. These are the beliefs you subscribe to and/or are defending.

I heard about that jesus story blah blah something ever sold years ago and long before it was ever posted here. I knew all that crap about the mithra etc.

People have known that for a long time, it's not something new. I'm glad you just discovered it.

Just because you don't believe that and just because you're angry at christians for what ever reason, doesn't mean people can't live by a book that displays certain morals and values. It doesn't matter if you agree or not, it's not your decision to decide what someone else should believe in.

But the teachings aren't moral, at all. The book is full of filth and vile and discusting immoral teachings.

Your argument now is that just because some religious people don't mind their own business that ALL of them are to blame.

Someone doesn't have to rape my child for me to hate all rapists, I hate them all any way. Why? because I don't believe in that kind of immoral behavior.

That is loaded question by the way. You're probably going to argue that now you hate theists because they all believe in a god and shouldn't or some garbage like that.

Well all rapists are that, rapists. Not all theists are against progress. There is the difference.

This your opinion. Not everyone in the world has to agree with you. I'm sorry that you weren't aware of this.

Irony, and your defending immoral behavior by defending religion.

Hmmm, ignorance at it's finest. I'm not defending immoral behavior by any means. I'm defending peoples rights to religious beliefs.

You're right they don't. However these are facts. Not made up thoughts on religion. I will say about 10% of the book is morally okay to read(that is my opinion). However it's not, it's all very immoral(fact). If you want, prove me wrong. I promise you i can come up with more immoral quotes of the bible or any holy book you care to pick. Than you can come up with moral things.

Yes and that's exactly what happens when people take stories, passages and quotes completely out of context. You could use specific lines to prove just about anything you want. This is how different religious groups have been formed over the ages. But thank you for informing me of the possibility.

Yes, the Christian bible was written in a different day and age with different messages and morals that they were trying to portray.

That does not give you the right to slander an entire group of people based solely on your own opinion when not all of the group are participants in those actions. In short, you are over generalizing. The world is not that simple.

I don't care what portion of history they were made, in no time or space is any of those morals "moral" by any standards. Stoning your children to death because they curse at you. Killing non-believers, stoning any virgins, slavery, endorsing death of millions of people simply for being born different. How are these "moral" even by old standards?

Your definition of morality is very wrong. Morals don't come from god, or a tablet.

I always thought morality was based on a collective, fundamental, humanity driven kind of thing with tons of gray wishy-washy areas to elaborate upon and make vague laws upon lol.

My defintion of morality? In who's morality are those things that i listed moral? Yours? If so you need to check into the nearest hospital asap, or prison.

Almost everyday now. It's sad isn't it?

Still doesn't change the fact that your arguements are flawed.