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Atheists the new Theists ?
Ragnarok.Hevans
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15273
By Ragnarok.Hevans 2011-06-22 12:02:44
Phoenix.Neosutra said: No, i throw in ad homiem attacks when people resort to back tracking to previously debunked arguments and circular logic to facilitate their back pedaling. In essence, it's just to demonstrate my annoyance for your adolescent debating tactics and wasting my time.
Basically: Respect us enough to not bring up the same *** arguments we've already discussed and debunked, and we'll respect you enough to not call your posts dribble.
drivel.... OH SNAP DID I WIN?
Ramuh.Vinvv
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-22 12:06:56
Ragnarok.Hevans said: Phoenix.Neosutra said: No, i throw in ad homiem attacks when people resort to back tracking to previously debunked arguments and circular logic to facilitate their back pedaling. In essence, it's just to demonstrate my annoyance for your adolescent debating tactics and wasting my time.
Basically: Respect us enough to not bring up the same *** arguments we've already discussed and debunked, and we'll respect you enough to not call your posts dribble.
drivel.... OH SNAP DID I WIN?
dribble and drivel come from the same root word, essentially they have the same meaning.
So unless Neosutra said something that didn't make sense the word dribble fits anywhere that the word drivel would fit.
dribble/drivel=spittle ridden speech
as time passed the terms began to mean different things.
in the context of this it fits.
Ifrit.Daemun
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 955
By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-22 12:11:19
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
I think this whole semantics deal has been dealt with already.
The entirety of the forums is about subjects that have been dealt with already, yet keep coming back up. Would you expect anything less?
Ramuh.Vinvv
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-22 12:13:40
Ifrit.Daemun said: Ramuh.Vinvv said:
I think this whole semantics deal has been dealt with already.
The entirety of the forums is about subjects that have been dealt with already, yet keep coming back up. Would you expect anything less? I was meaning this specific instance where an out-spoken individual used dribble in not-so-formal manner.
It was in one of my threads.
So sure, address the part that wasn't the point of my post and ignore the rest of it.
FFXIAH is the best at that.
hell
i removed that part, but since you quoted it we will still know it's there.
care to reply to this instead:
Quote: dribble and drivel come from the same root word, essentially they have the same meaning.
So unless Neosutra said something that didn't make sense the word dribble fits anywhere that the word drivel would fit.
dribble/drivel=spittle ridden speech
as time passed the terms began to mean different things.
in the context of this it fits. if this was just meant to eliminate a pointless aspect of my post it was well taken and thank you.
Ifrit.Daemun
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 955
By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-22 12:17:32
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Ifrit.Daemun said: Ramuh.Vinvv said:
I think this whole semantics deal has been dealt with already.
The entirety of the forums is about subjects that have been dealt with already, yet keep coming back up. Would you expect anything less? I was meaning this specific instance where an out-spoken individual used dribble in not-so-formal manner.
It was in one of my threads.
So sure, address the part that wasn't the point of my post and ignore the rest of it.
FFXIAH is the best at that.
hell
i removed that part, but since you quoted it we will still know it's there.
care to reply to this: I enjoy taking things out of context to prove a point that wasn't really the issue. It completely undermines the flow of the discussion.
Oh wait...
I wasn't trying to contort what you said, just merely pointing out that you should have lost faith in the general forum goer years ago.
Edit: If I were planning on corrupting this discussion, I could safely say mission complete. Sorry to hang you up on that, it really wasn't my intent.
Ramuh.Vinvv
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-22 12:18:51
Ifrit.Daemun said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Ifrit.Daemun said: Ramuh.Vinvv said:
I think this whole semantics deal has been dealt with already.
The entirety of the forums is about subjects that have been dealt with already, yet keep coming back up. Would you expect anything less? I was meaning this specific instance where an out-spoken individual used dribble in not-so-formal manner.
It was in one of my threads.
So sure, address the part that wasn't the point of my post and ignore the rest of it.
FFXIAH is the best at that.
hell
i removed that part, but since you quoted it we will still know it's there.
care to reply to this: I enjoy taking things out of context to prove a point that wasn't really the issue. It completely undermines the flow of the discussion.
Oh wait...
I wasn't trying to contort what you said, just merely pointing out that you should have lost faith in the general forum goer years ago. I eventually got to that point of it as I further elaborated on that post, which is why I put that ":" near the end.
I just did exactly what my other writing thread told me to not do...I am so ashamed ...:(
Ifrit.Daemun
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 955
By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-22 12:21:01
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Ifrit.Daemun said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Ifrit.Daemun said: Ramuh.Vinvv said:
I think this whole semantics deal has been dealt with already.
The entirety of the forums is about subjects that have been dealt with already, yet keep coming back up. Would you expect anything less? I was meaning this specific instance where an out-spoken individual used dribble in not-so-formal manner.
It was in one of my threads.
So sure, address the part that wasn't the point of my post and ignore the rest of it.
FFXIAH is the best at that.
hell
i removed that part, but since you quoted it we will still know it's there.
care to reply to this: I enjoy taking things out of context to prove a point that wasn't really the issue. It completely undermines the flow of the discussion.
Oh wait...
I wasn't trying to contort what you said, just merely pointing out that you should have lost faith in the general forum goer years ago. I eventually got to that point of it as I further elaborated on that post, which is why I put that ":" near the end.
I just did exactly what my other writing thread told me to not do...I am so ashamed ...:( Yeah, of all people, I wouldn't expect such stumbling from you. I am disappoint.
I prefer drivel, as it sounds more sophisticated. Dribble just sounds like bits of processed food falling from a babies mouth, and I'm not a huge drool fan.
Oh and Vinvv, this: Ifrit.Daemun said: I enjoy taking things out of context to prove a point that wasn't really the issue. It completely undermines the flow of the discussion.
Oh wait... was a description of me in a joking manner, not of you because of your superfluous sentence. I was merely laughing off the fact that in my attempt to make valid, and funny (only because it is so pathetically true) point; I completely derailed the current discussion.
Bismarck.Nevill
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2420
By Bismarck.Nevill 2011-06-22 12:22:53
Phoenix.Neosutra said: No, i throw in ad homiem attacks when people resort to back tracking to previously debunked arguments and circular logic to facilitate their back pedaling. In essence, it's just to demonstrate my annoyance for your adolescent debating tactics and wasting my time.
Basically: Respect us enough to not bring up the same *** arguments we've already discussed and debunked, and we'll respect you enough to not call your posts dribble.
My entire point is religious people as a whol are not as bad as you think. Sure, you disagree with the idea of religion, but that is you pov.
If all the religious people were as bad as you thought, prayer would still be allowed in schools. That is something I have said myself on this forum that should not be allowed, because children have to go to school, not because they choose to.
I have also said that people should be free to do as they please up to the point they start infringing on others rights.
Example, I should be able to discuss my religion tk whoever wants to heear it. If you don't want to, I will leave you alone.
What you are suggesting is my freedoms should be nonexistant because you disagree with them, and that isn't right.
And, sorry I will not be able to continue this discussion for a while because I have work to deal with, and it requires some driving.
Ifrit.Daemun
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 955
By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-22 12:24:31
Bismarck.Nevill said: Phoenix.Neosutra said: No, i throw in ad homiem attacks when people resort to back tracking to previously debunked arguments and circular logic to facilitate their back pedaling. In essence, it's just to demonstrate my annoyance for your adolescent debating tactics and wasting my time.
Basically: Respect us enough to not bring up the same *** arguments we've already discussed and debunked, and we'll respect you enough to not call your posts dribble.
My entire point is religious people as a whol are not as bad as you think. Sure, you disagree with the idea of religion, but that is you pov.
If all the religious people were as bad as you thought, prayer would still be allowed in schools. That is something I have said myself on this forum that should not be allowed, because children have to go to school, not because they choose to.
I have also said that people should be free to do as they please up to the point they start infringing on others rights.
Example, I should be able to discuss my religion tk whoever wants to heear it. If you don't want to, I will leave you alone.
What you are suggesting is my freedoms should be nonexistant because you disagree with them, and that isn't right.
And, sorry I will not be able to continue this discussion for a while because I have work to deal with, and it requires some driving. Prayer is still allowed in school, under the following conditions:
1) It cannot be forced upon anyone
2) It cannot be led by any faculty/staff member of the school district
Bismarck.Nevill
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2420
By Bismarck.Nevill 2011-06-22 12:25:51
Oh, one more thing Neo.
If you weren't so militant with your posts, you would get much better reception.
Bismarck.Nevill
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2420
By Bismarck.Nevill 2011-06-22 12:27:26
Ifrit.Daemun said: Bismarck.Nevill said: Phoenix.Neosutra said: No, i throw in ad homiem attacks when people resort to back tracking to previously debunked arguments and circular logic to facilitate their back pedaling. In essence, it's just to demonstrate my annoyance for your adolescent debating tactics and wasting my time.
Basically: Respect us enough to not bring up the same *** arguments we've already discussed and debunked, and we'll respect you enough to not call your posts dribble.
My entire point is religious people as a whol are not as bad as you think. Sure, you disagree with the idea of religion, but that is you pov.
If all the religious people were as bad as you thought, prayer would still be allowed in schools. That is something I have said myself on this forum that should not be allowed, because children have to go to school, not because they choose to.
I have also said that people should be free to do as they please up to the point they start infringing on others rights.
Example, I should be able to discuss my religion tk whoever wants to heear it. If you don't want to, I will leave you alone.
What you are suggesting is my freedoms should be nonexistant because you disagree with them, and that isn't right.
And, sorry I will not be able to continue this discussion for a while because I have work to deal with, and it requires some driving. Prayer is still allowed in school, under the following conditions:
1) It cannot be forced upon anyone
2) It cannot be led by any faculty/staff member of the school district
Yeah, I should have been more specific. Students can still pray amongst themselves with those who agree to pray with them, WHICH I personally do not disagree with.
Phoenix.Neosutra
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-06-22 12:45:42
Bismarck.Nevill said: Oh, one more thing Neo.
If you weren't so militant with your posts, you would get much better reception.
I'm not looking for a good reception. I'm simply expressing annoyance at your constant cycle of bringing up a logical fallacy, having it proven wrong, ignoring it, then bringing it up 2 pages later.
Eventually we stop re-answering your questions and just slap you around a bit.
But please, please GOD bring up the "not all religious people are bad" argument ONE more time.
Do it for me Nevill, then complain some more that I'm not being patient with you!
[+]
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 659
By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2011-06-22 12:49:11
Bismarck.Nevill said: Ifrit.Daemun said: Bismarck.Nevill said: Phoenix.Neosutra said: No, i throw in ad homiem attacks when people resort to back tracking to previously debunked arguments and circular logic to facilitate their back pedaling. In essence, it's just to demonstrate my annoyance for your adolescent debating tactics and wasting my time. Basically: Respect us enough to not bring up the same *** arguments we've already discussed and debunked, and we'll respect you enough to not call your posts dribble. My entire point is religious people as a whol are not as bad as you think. Sure, you disagree with the idea of religion, but that is you pov. If all the religious people were as bad as you thought, prayer would still be allowed in schools. That is something I have said myself on this forum that should not be allowed, because children have to go to school, not because they choose to. I have also said that people should be free to do as they please up to the point they start infringing on others rights. Example, I should be able to discuss my religion tk whoever wants to heear it. If you don't want to, I will leave you alone. What you are suggesting is my freedoms should be nonexistant because you disagree with them, and that isn't right. And, sorry I will not be able to continue this discussion for a while because I have work to deal with, and it requires some driving. Prayer is still allowed in school, under the following conditions: 1) It cannot be forced upon anyone 2) It cannot be led by any faculty/staff member of the school district Yeah, I should have been more specific. Students can still pray amongst themselves with those who agree to pray with them, WHICH I personally do not disagree with.
I don't see what's wrong with letting people do something like that if it's not affecting anyone else...
Ragnarok.Ashman
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4252
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-06-22 12:53:35
Phoenix.Neosutra said: Eventually we stop re-answering your questions and just slap you around a bit.
It's usually bad taste to claim that all the people on "your side" of the debate agree with your poor behaviour, especially when you're being sanctimonious and self-righteous from atop your mountain of perfection and judgement.
People tend to make a point to distance themselves from you to avoid being associated. It's hard to make points when you're assumed to be obtuse.
Ramuh.Vinvv
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-22 12:57:33
Ragnarok.Ashman said: Phoenix.Neosutra said: Eventually we stop re-answering your questions and just slap you around a bit.
It's usually bad taste to claim that all the people on "your side" of the debate agree with your poor behaviour, especially when you're being sanctimonious and self-righteous from atop your mountain of perfection and judgement.
People tend to make a point to distance themselves from you to avoid being associated. It's hard to make points when you're assumed to be obtuse. It was the royal we!
Aha!
:)
Ifrit.Daemun
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 955
By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-22 13:05:02
Ragnarok.Ashman said: Phoenix.Neosutra said: Eventually we stop re-answering your questions and just slap you around a bit.
It's usually bad taste to claim that all the people on "your side" of the debate agree with your poor behaviour, especially when you're being sanctimonious and self-righteous from atop your mountain of perfection and judgement.
People tend to make a point to distance themselves from you to avoid being associated. It's hard to make points when you're assumed to be obtuse. Yeah, we are tired of it!
: )
Phoenix.Neosutra
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-06-22 13:10:41
Pretty sure I'm not the only person tired of your *** Ash. Just because you don't find it insulting to belittle us by resubmitting the same arguments page after page doesn't mean it's any less offensive than what I've said to you. Grow a pair, get some better arguments, and join us when you're ready.
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Ifrit.Daemun
Server: Ifrit
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Posts: 955
By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-22 13:17:05
Phoenix.Neosutra said: Pretty sure I'm not the only person tired of your *** Ash. Just because you don't find it insulting to belittle us by resubmitting the same arguments page after page doesn't mean it's any less offensive than what I've said to you. Grow a pair, get some better arguments, and join us when you're ready. Who is this collective group everyone keeps referring to?
Do I get a cool lantern ring and fight crime?
Phoenix.Neosutra
Server: Phoenix
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Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-06-22 13:18:40
No, but you get to fight Lou Ferrigno.
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-06-22 13:19:54
I'm far more tired of Neosutra than Ashman.
Bismarck.Nevill
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2420
By Bismarck.Nevill 2011-06-22 13:20:26
Phoenix.Neosutra said: Bismarck.Nevill said: Oh, one more thing Neo.
If you weren't so militant with your posts, you would get much better reception.
I'm not looking for a good reception. I'm simply expressing annoyance at your constant cycle of bringing up a logical fallacy, having it proven wrong, ignoring it, then bringing it up 2 pages later.
Eventually we stop re-answering your questions and just slap you around a bit.
But please, please GOD bring up the "not all religious people are bad" argument ONE more time.
Do it for me Nevill, then complain some more that I'm not being patient with you!
Only point I was bringing up is, 2 pages later you are making the same generalizations.
However, reading this
Quote: I'm not looking for a good reception.
tells me this is pointless. You are like a child, just bitching to be heard. You have no means to an end, and are not trying to get anyone to understand your point. You are just bitching.
Sylph.Anuu
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 583
By Sylph.Anuu 2011-06-22 13:22:58
ooo, looks like there'sa fight going down o.o
i'll just put my 2 cents in an /run away
atheists do it because their beliefs are pretty much based in fact and reality. so it's kinda hard not to say "it's kinda the truth"
i myself am an agnostic leaning towards atheism, and i do chuckle at my religious friends every so often, and i do say "yup ._. it's kinda the truth" but whatever. everyone's different. people need to get over it.
also, i think he chose the wrong word when saying that being a homosexual is a huge part of a person's "personality." I'm gay, and most people are *** surprised when i tell'em. Being gay is something you can hide too. just because you're gay doesn't mean everyone's gunna know. but that's just an arbitrary observation and argument, completely besides the point of the video, picking at a small supporting idea that doesn't really matter towards the bigger idea that was being argued.
i'll stop now.
also, that guy was *** SEXY.
EDIT: and so is Vinvv. bye now.
[+]
Ifrit.Daemun
Server: Ifrit
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Posts: 955
By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-22 13:23:02
Phoenix.Neosutra said: No, but you get to fight Lou Ferrigno. I get to fight, good enough for me
Phoenix.Neosutra
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-06-22 13:23:42
Let's see if this makes it easier for you Ash:
Step 1: Theist presents argument from ignorance, appeal to ego, victimized theists, or "it doesn't effect you" argument.
Step 2: Atheist points out the error in each of these arguments, in detail, answering each of the questions presented.
Step 3: Theist then claims that the negatives expressed in the Atheist's talking points don't apply to all religious people and are thus inapplicable.
Step 4: Atheist points out that the claim was never made that all theists engender the totality of negative side effects of religion, and that religion is merely a catalyst for these actions. Being such, it is better to remove catalysts for action that have no way of being evaluated as being right/wrong, due to being on a "higher authority".
Step 5: Theist re-submits the arguments from Step 1, ignoring the last 4 pages of debate.
About the 3rd cycle through this loop, it becomes tiresome to deal with your inability to either read or learn, and we just point out your obvious comprehension problem, in the hopes that it will inspire you to move onto another argument or grow as a person.
Alas, I don't see that happening.
[+]
Bismarck.Nevill
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By Bismarck.Nevill 2011-06-22 13:25:15
Quote: all theists engender the totality of negative side
Bigotry at its finest.
Ifrit.Daemun
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 955
By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-22 13:25:21
Phoenix.Neosutra said: Let's see if this makes it easier for you Ash:
Step 1: Theist presents argument from ignorance, appeal to ego, victimized theists, or "it doesn't effect you" argument.
Step 2: Atheist points out the error in each of these arguments, in detail, answering each of the questions presented.
Step 3: Theist then claims that the negatives expressed in the Atheist's talking points don't apply to all religious people and are thus inapplicable.
Step 4: Atheist points out that the claim was never made that all theists engender the totality of negative side effects of religion, and that religion is merely a catalyst for these actions. Being such, it is better to remove catalysts for action that have no way of being evaluated as being right/wrong, due to being on a "higher authority".
Step 5: Theist re-submits the arguments from Step 1, ignoring the last 4 pages of debate.
About the 3rd cycle through this loop, it becomes tiresome to deal with your inability to either read or learn, and we just point out your obvious comprehension problem, in the hopes that it will inspire you to move onto another argument or grow as a person.
Alas, I don't see that happening. This isn't how I argue at all
Ramuh.Vinvv
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-22 13:46:14
Sylph.Anuu said: ooo, looks like there'sa fight going down o.o
i'll just put my 2 cents in an /run away
atheists do it because their beliefs are pretty much based in fact and reality. so it's kinda hard not to say "it's kinda the truth"
i myself am an agnostic leaning towards atheism, and i do chuckle at my religious friends every so often, and i do say "yup ._. it's kinda the truth" but whatever. everyone's different. people need to get over it.
also, i think he chose the wrong word when saying that being a homosexual is a huge part of a person's "personality." I'm gay, and most people are *** surprised when i tell'em. Being gay is something you can hide too. just because you're gay doesn't mean everyone's gunna know. but that's just an arbitrary observation and argument, completely besides the point of the video, picking at a small supporting idea that doesn't really matter towards the bigger idea that was being argued.
i'll stop now.
also, that guy was *** SEXY.
EDIT: and so is Vinvv. bye now. taru creepers!
Quote: "All human errors are impatience, a premature breaking off of methodical procedure, an apparent fencing-in of what is apparently at issue."- Franz Kafka
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Phoenix.Neosutra
Server: Phoenix
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Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-06-22 13:50:52
Bismarck.Nevill said: Quote: all theists engender the totality of negative side
Bigotry at its finest.
Except... I said they don't all engender the negatives..
This is why I get frustrated with your reading comprehension.
[+]
Ragnarok.Ashman
Server: Ragnarok
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Posts: 4252
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-06-22 13:51:00
I said in as many words:
"I want atheists to realize that they are being offensive to us sometimes." I didn't even go out of my way to call anyone out or be rude in the slightest.
You chose to go "omfg, what's your point. you said absolutely nothing in your posts" which is an obnoxious hyperbole in itself. You also proceed to make yourself foolish by making several broad generalizations and passing indiscriminate judgement on a group of people whom you don't know (something Christians are usually accused of ironically).
My only arguement since is that you are making something of nothing. You went so far out of your way to spew at me that you actually made 2 posts directed at me (believe me, I'm honored) before I got the time at work to read your first one. The worst part is that I was genuinely asking people to settle down with the religion-hate and NOT trolling so I can't even take credit for it :/
Ramuh.Vinvv
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-22 13:52:19
Phoenix.Neosutra said: Bismarck.Nevill said: Quote: all theists engender the totality of negative side
Bigotry at its finest.
Except... I said they don't all engender the negatives..
This is why I get frustrated with your reading comprehension. to further prove your point:
Quote: the claim was never made that all theists engender the totality of negative side effects of religion
though corrections could easily be made for that passage past this.
Quote: Step 3: Theist then claims that the negatives expressed in the Atheist's talking points don't apply to all religious people and are thus inapplicable.
Step 4: Atheist points out that the claim was never made that all theists engender the totality of negative side effects of religion, and that religion is merely a catalyst for these actions. Being such, it is better to remove catalysts for action that have no way of being evaluated as being right/wrong, due to being on a "higher authority".
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