Atheists The New Theists ?

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Atheists the new Theists ?
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 Bismarck.Nevill
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By Bismarck.Nevill 2011-06-21 13:35:01
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Semantics.

my whole point is it hasn't been preoven.
 Siren.Inuyushi
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By Siren.Inuyushi 2011-06-21 13:35:48
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Phoenix.Neosutra said:
Bismarck.Nevill said:


Scientific method requires an experiment. An expirement cannot be conducted that can prove where cosmic dust came from, therefore, that" theory" is faith based itself.

Nope.

You're confusing theory, hypothesis, faith, and reasonable belief.

Take some time and understand the difference before attempting to contribute to the debate.

No scientific theory requires faith.

Not one.

Edit: Inuyasha - I'm not getting into an evolution debate with you. You just proved you weren't worth the time wasted on you.

Discussing faith and reason is one thing, but when you start attacking evolution you just reveal your ignorance.

Since you can't even spell my name right and think it's ok for you to attack my faith and I can't even bring Evolution into the picture because you're too close minded I'll just leave my response to a picture.

[+]
 Bismarck.Magnuss
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By Bismarck.Magnuss 2011-06-21 13:36:30
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You guys should have your own sitcom. For realz.
 Asura.Arkanethered
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By Asura.Arkanethered 2011-06-21 13:36:57
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If you can disprove Evolution and the multitude of theory's that it is based upon. Why are you arguing and not collecting your Nobel Prize?
 Phoenix.Neosutra
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By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-06-21 13:37:10
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 Siren.Inuyushi
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By Siren.Inuyushi 2011-06-21 13:38:00
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Phoenix.Neosutra said:

Aw, the poor mentally disabled kids just cried because you used the R-word!
 Asura.Arkanethered
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By Asura.Arkanethered 2011-06-21 13:40:33
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I wanna see Atomic Theory attacked next. Cause I can't see the little ***!
 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-21 13:40:45
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Siren.Inuyushi said:
I did not say the Scientific Method requires faith. I said the Theories do. Stop saying that please, you're just becoming redundant.

And you don't know enough about Macro-Evolution to see it's faults, so tell me where it takes no Faith to go "ok, so over time we went from Hardcore exoskeletons to skin....because the strongest survived!" It takes some sort of faith to think we evolved from an Ape that is able to live on its own after a few years into something that takes 5 years to even learn how to keep it's clothes on.
okay, do you know what a theory is?

Quote:
in modern science the term "theory", or "scientific theory" is generally understood to refer to a proposed explanation of empirical phenomena, made in a way consistent with scientific method. Such theories are preferably described in such a way that any scientist in the field is in a position to understand, verify, and challenge (or "falsify") it.
can you read?

Quote:
made in a way consistent with scientific method

Quote:
scientific method

So since theories are made in a way consistent with the scientific method.
Again, where does scientific method become/require faith?
You've been redundant the whole damn time, if you want to be a baby about it by all means.

so since theory comes from scientific method you essentially are saying a theory requires faith which in turn means the scientific method in question had faith enter the equation at some point.
where does this happen?

edit:
since you apparently don't know what I mean by "where did it occur?"
I will further illustrate.
at what point while formulating said theory did it turn to faith?
if you can't make a defined remark in regards to that you don't know enough about the big bang, or any science thing that you are trying to argue.
 Phoenix.Wombie
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By Phoenix.Wombie 2011-06-21 13:41:45
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Ifrit.Arawn said:
Sophistry. Of course one side can be more right or more wrong than the other.
According to whose point of view? Is there some absolute record of knowledge and truth that I'm unaware of?

Even if you "win" an argument, it doesn't mean you're actually right or even that the scholars you cite really have their facts straight, or that you or your opponent has exhausted all possible evidence.
Ifrit.Arawn said:
Also, this idea of letting people be wrong normally only applies to areas where that person doesn't affect you in any way or you care nothing for truth or the other person's well being. If you think a friend is being taken in by a cult who is out to take their money you stop them.
I didn't say to let people be wrong. I said, "stop being so f-ing critical" and to "temper our criticism."
Ifrit.Arawn said:
Also, on the topic of Faith and Trust. Faith and Trust can mean the same thing depending on how you use them. I think the matter is more the reasons behind faith. Believing in a random stranger you've never met and walking into an alleyway at midnight is bonkers. Trusting that random guy, the one who has a pocket full of condoms and a video camera peeking out of his backpack, to get you a drink at a party is stupid. So too, trusting in things you don't have reason to believe is rather silly. Then, how can you expect other people to have faith?
The strength of reason is subjective. If the guy with the camera has a cute smile, that's reason enough for some. Either way, I was trying to encourage the thought that people often have faith with "good" reason, according to their own perspective.
Ifrit.Arawn said:
I could get into a long argument about instilling faith in the unknowable, unseeable, and arguably non-existent entity in young children and through a mix of peer pressure and shared delusions continuing the trend but alas... It serves no real purpose.
I have mixed feelings on this.
 Siren.Inuyushi
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By Siren.Inuyushi 2011-06-21 13:42:16
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Asura.Arkanethered said:
If you can disprove Evolution and the multitude of theory's that it is based upon. Why are you arguing and not collecting your Nobel Prize?

Because everyone that tries gets dis-credited for thinking outside the box. I don't need to disprove it to you. This thread is proof that you're not willing to think outside of your box. Sure, I'm not either but I have read as much of the claims about Evolution/Atheism/etc as I have the patience to.

Oh and Yes I do understand what a Theory is. Thank you. So can you say that my problem is with people who take a group of theories and make connections between them to answer things people have trouble answering? (ie- Where did all of this come from? Where did the Cosmic dust come from?) If you think since Human's are flawed, the Bible is also flawed then are not Theories flawed also?
 Phoenix.Neosutra
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By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-06-21 13:42:44
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I think we're just treading water here. Had I realied Inuyushi was a creationist a few pages back, I would have just used crayons.

Logic and reason wont work on him. The guy believes in magic. He believes evolution is a lie, the big bang was a hoax, and all of science is a ploy by the devil.

You can't debate with that kind if individual.

The guy doesn't even know what cosmic dust is. He doesn't even know what macro evolution is. He's just using buzz words at this point and he doesn't even realize how stupid it makes him look.
 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-21 13:46:19
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Siren.Inuyushi said:
Asura.Arkanethered said:
If you can disprove Evolution and the multitude of theory's that it is based upon. Why are you arguing and not collecting your Nobel Prize?

Because everyone that tries gets dis-credited for thinking outside the box. I don't need to disprove it to you. This thread is proof that you're not willing to think outside of your box. Sure, I'm not either but I have read as much of the claims about Evolution/Atheism/etc as I have the patience to.

Oh and Yes I do understand what a Theory is. Thank you.
So can you say that my problem is with people who take a group of theories and make connections between them to answer things people have trouble answering? (ie- Where did all of this come from? Where did the Cosmic dust come from?) If you think since Human's are flawed, the Bible is also flawed then are not Theories flawed also?
Still can't answer the question?
I can say your problem is dodging legitimate questions while making further opinion driven inferences about the world around you.
one thing at a time my dear.
I can get into what you mentioned as well but that's a whole different category past what we were originally talking on and I'm not letting you get off of the path so easily.
 Asura.Arkanethered
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By Asura.Arkanethered 2011-06-21 13:47:28
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No matter how much you think outside the box, if you cannot prove or test it against the accepted / tested / highly validated theory. Then yes you might have a bit of a problem.

Yes, you do need to disprove it to me to usurp the mountain of supportive evidence that have been build upon for the past 100 years.
 Siren.Inuyushi
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By Siren.Inuyushi 2011-06-21 13:47:59
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Not getting off the path? You're refusing to move forward. Yes, I am a Creationist and you just proved my point. Evolutionists are just as stuborn as Creationists.

Anyway, obviously you two are done with me so I'll stop too. Go ahead and take the last word to make yourselves look good.
[+]
 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-21 13:49:16
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Phoenix.Neosutra said:
I think we're just treading water here. Had I realied Inuyushi was a creationist a few pages back, I would have just used crayons.

Logic and reason wont work on him. The guy believes in magic. He believes evolution is a lie, the big bang was a hoax, and all of science is a ploy by the devil.

You can't debate with that kind if individual.

The guy doesn't even know what cosmic dust is. He doesn't even know what macro evolution is. He's just using buzz words at this point and he doesn't even realize how stupid it makes him look.
No you can.
You just have to know how to talk to people.
I.E. not being a *** and giving off holier than thou vibes.
remove the insults and bickering and conductive debate can occur from your side and that's the only side that's really needed to worry about.
people aren't static, they are dynamic.
Siren.Inuyushi said:
Not getting off the path? You're refusing to move forward. Yes, I am a Creationist and you just proved my point. Evolutionists are just as stuborn as Creationists.

Anyway, obviously you two are done with me so I'll stop too. Go ahead and take the last word to make yourselves look good.
Whatever, if you can't back up what you say and just spout things you won't get a real discussion, that's debate 101.
I've been nothing but kind to you and given you the chance to illustrate what you wanted to say but since you can't or won't there we really can't go much past that.
the foundation of your argument is that theories require faith, since you can't elaborate about what theory has faith and where that faith happens and what-not you obviously either aren't a great linguist or you don't know much about the subject.
but if you don't know much about the subject..i wouldn't recommend using it as your default point of argument.
 Phoenix.Neosutra
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By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-06-21 13:49:18
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Asura.Arkanethered said:
No matter how much you think outside the box, if you cannot prove or test it against the accepted / tested / highly validated theory. Then yes you might have a bit of a problem.

Yes, you do need to disprove it to me to usurp the mountain of supportive evidence that have been build upon for the past 100 years.

Exactly.

There is more evidence for evolution than there is for the world being round.


In fact, if Inuyushi knew -anything- about what he was talking about, he would realize that evolution is one of the most studied/evidence backed theories -in existence-.

I'm waiting for his "it's just a theory" comment though. Please let him be as predictable as he is ignorant.
 Asura.Arkanethered
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By Asura.Arkanethered 2011-06-21 13:51:09
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I'm bored now.


 Siren.Inuyushi
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By Siren.Inuyushi 2011-06-21 13:59:55
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Edit: Double post lag fts
 Siren.Inuyushi
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By Siren.Inuyushi 2011-06-21 14:00:15
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Asura.Arkanethered said:

Everyone's going to end with this? lol, and Religious people are known as extreme you say.
 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-21 14:01:05
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Siren.Inuyushi said:
Anyway, obviously you two are done with me so I'll stop too. Go ahead and take the last word to make yourselves look good....wait nevermind I'm too petty and I will take it!
ftfy
bold is from the original, italic for the fixed portion
 Ifrit.Arawn
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By Ifrit.Arawn 2011-06-21 14:03:48
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Siren.Inuyushi said:
Asura.Arkanethered said:

Everyone's going to end with this? lol, and Religious people are known as extreme you say.

Why, yes, of course religious people are extreme. You notice in the comic that if the man weren't religious or a creationist that he'd just get the most appropriate medicine.

Its poking fun at the fact that creationists ignore evolution right under (and sometimes in and around) their noses. Bacteria and viruses evolving is a form, duh, of evolution. If you don't believe in evolution at all... you get the joke, right?

Having to explain jokes... gah.... horrible.
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By zahrah 2011-06-21 14:04:56
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Asura.Arkanethered said:
I wanna see Atomic Theory attacked next. Cause I can't see the little ***!

LOL!!! LOVE IT!
 Phoenix.Neosutra
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By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-06-21 14:26:45
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But like, the eye is like complex man, and couldn't have evolved naturally man.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2011-06-21 14:53:57
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Going with the word creationist and not intelligent design. At least intelligent design sounds scientific, creationist just makes you sound mentally deficient.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-06-21 15:03:15
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Phoenix.Neosutra said:
I think we're just treading water here. Had I realied Inuyushi was a creationist a few pages back, I would have just used crayons.

Logic and reason wont work on him. The guy believes in magic. He believes evolution is a lie, the big bang was a hoax, and all of science is a ploy by the devil.

You can't debate with that kind if individual.

The guy doesn't even know what cosmic dust is. He doesn't even know what macro evolution is. He's just using buzz words at this point and he doesn't even realize how stupid it makes him look.

Do you have proof on the big bang?
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2011-06-21 15:06:33
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Shiva.Flionheart said:
Phoenix.Neosutra said:
I think we're just treading water here. Had I realied Inuyushi was a creationist a few pages back, I would have just used crayons.

Logic and reason wont work on him. The guy believes in magic. He believes evolution is a lie, the big bang was a hoax, and all of science is a ploy by the devil.

You can't debate with that kind if individual.

The guy doesn't even know what cosmic dust is. He doesn't even know what macro evolution is. He's just using buzz words at this point and he doesn't even realize how stupid it makes him look.

Do you have proof on the big bang?
Simple internet search:
Proof of Big Bang Seen by Space Probe, Scientists Say
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-06-21 15:08:58
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It's not exactly infallible.
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By zahrah 2011-06-21 15:09:55
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Leviathan.Chaosx said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Phoenix.Neosutra said:
I think we're just treading water here. Had I realied Inuyushi was a creationist a few pages back, I would have just used crayons.

Logic and reason wont work on him. The guy believes in magic. He believes evolution is a lie, the big bang was a hoax, and all of science is a ploy by the devil.

You can't debate with that kind if individual.

The guy doesn't even know what cosmic dust is. He doesn't even know what macro evolution is. He's just using buzz words at this point and he doesn't even realize how stupid it makes him look.

Do you have proof on the big bang?
Simple internet search:
Proof of Big Bang Seen by Space Probe, Scientists Say

Why can't people believe in both?
 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2011-06-21 15:10:25
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Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Siren.Inuyushi said:
Anyway, obviously you two are done with me so I'll stop too. Go ahead and take the last word to make yourselves look good....wait nevermind I'm too petty and I will take it!
ftfy bold is from the original, italic for the fixed portion
That doesn't really work if you point it out man! lol...
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