|
Almace or Kannagi?
By BorealisV2 2011-05-17 10:20:48
Carbuncle.Niusha said: BorealisV2 said:
Didn't say anything about a RDM keeping up with a NIN, just said that :Hi sucks and Chant is probably better outside.
really, the numbers are pretty similar outside. i do a lot of stuff with a well-geared almace blu, i've been watching him cdc for months, and i guarantee his attack is a lot higher than a rdm's due to sword skill, gear, and attack bonus *** from his spells.
BorealisV2 said:
Listen to the people that say Blade: Hi sucks outside of Abyssea, they're correct. A full non-crit Chant would do more than a full non-crit :Hi mainly due to the spastic mods on :Hi. Gearing DEX is a lot easier.
outside abyssea, even if blade: hi has lower lows than chant du cygne, i'm pretty positive it ends up at least matching the average dmg, if not surpassing it. you're also going to be weaponskilling a lot more on ninja than anything that can use almace.
you talk like it's hard for a ninja to get agi gear for ws. it's really not, most of the ***i had already (seiryu's kote, anwig salade, loki's kaftan, lithe boots...) before i even got a kannagi. any half-decent nin should have an evasion set, a lot of those pieces have agi on them
You have to realize though; :Hi is still subject to fSTR and dDEX calculations, so while piling on AGI gear is good in Abyssea, outside you're going to be lacking a decent amount of STR, DEX and attack.
Stop hating on BLU, yo.
[+]
Carbuncle.Niusha
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 46
By Carbuncle.Niusha 2011-05-17 10:22:32
Titan.Darkestknight said: No one is comparing a RDM to NIN, seriously!! Someone's a bit paranoid.
that was kind of the point of the OP... comparing getting an almace for rdm or a kannagi for nin... since borealis didn't state otherwise, i have to assume he's talking about a rdm using cdc when comparing cdc to blade: hi...
[+]
Server: Titan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 611
By Titan.Darkestknight 2011-05-17 10:26:38
Carbuncle.Niusha said: Titan.Darkestknight said: No one is comparing a RDM to NIN, seriously!! Someone's a bit paranoid.
that was kind of the point of the OP... comparing getting an almace for rdm or a kannagi for nin... since borealis didn't state otherwise, i have to assume he's talking about a rdm using cdc when comparing cdc to blade: hi...
More the weapon than the job.
Ragnarok.Krafty
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16
By Ragnarok.Krafty 2011-05-17 11:45:54
I don't want a comparison on the jobs RDM and NIN and how they play, I'm more focus on the weapons overall.
I've noticed the Almace has 6more DMG than the Kannagi, that may not make a difference but to me having more DMG tells me that my weapon skills will be good due to the base of it. I've also seen the modifier for CDC and get a DEX set on RDM is not hard at all seeing as there is some pieces I've already got.
I've mainly seen the Kannagi in action in abyssea and I can say the DMG is amazing, I love being able to hit 4k+ with anything let alone a weapon skill that you could get TP for overly fast. I also agree that the aftermath on the Kannagi would be much better in abyssea seeing as you main atma's such as RR, GN ect.
I'm still debating as to me it's a touch choice, I can't exactly get both because I run a LS and getting both would be greedy. I'm most probably going to go with the Almace unless my NIN gear steps up before I get my helms done.
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2011-05-17 11:56:00
Almace changes the jobs that can use it more than Kannagi does. Both are solid options.
Regarding NIN vs BLU TP gain speed, the difference is not as much as you'd expect given BLU can set DA10%/sTP traits and cap Haste.
Asura.Solara
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 536
By Asura.Solara 2011-05-17 12:14:46
I'd go with the Almace, it has a better dmg potential outside of Abyssea. Plus CDC doesn't have to balance it's ws mod and dDex, so it's easier to push your gear toward maxing it.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-05-17 13:12:52
NIN building TP faster than a BLU is a complete fallacy. I keep up with or surpass any Ninja that I have played with.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-05-17 16:31:38
NIN building TP faster than BLU isn't necessarily a fallacy, but how much faster will vary by gear and atma choices.
CDC is a stronger WS just looking at fTP and WSC but job and gear choices really do have an impact. In practice, BLU and NIN will see similar numbers (CDC being slightly ahead, though if the BLU is /NIN then Hi will outperform with Berserk up) unless the NIN's critrate is suffering due to uncapped dDEX.
But this isn't even BLU we're talking about, it's RDM, and RDM's potential suffers even more. Anything you'd melee on RDM would either be fodder, in which case you might as well be on NIN, or really nasty, in which case you'd probably prefer a PDT sword. Unless you're dead set on pimping out your RDM, I think you'll be happier with the Kannagi in the long run.
Or you can do what I'm doing and get both. I know what you said but really, it's not greedy considering they're so easy to get. I know a number of people with 2+ Empyreans completed or in progress, people that have helped many others complete their weapons and are by no means dedicating huge chunks of time to these weapons. It's something that can be done in a very casual fashion, with only a small number of people if you so desire.
[+]
Bismarck.Helel
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1335
By Bismarck.Helel 2011-05-17 16:38:12
BLU is a monster outside abyssea (and inside) just using their spells alone. With the addition of Almace they not only have excellent melee damage, but amazing damage potential from spells as well. I won't compare BLU to NIN, just because I enjoy both jobs and I know each has its place, but the reason I chose to get Almace was because of BLU's consistent damage inside or outside abyssea.
Siren.Eremes
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 88
By Siren.Eremes 2011-05-17 17:08:45
Personally, I have seen far too many bandwagon Kannagi NINs to really care for the weapon. It's a solid choice, but the FFXI-hipster in me is sick of seeing it.
That being said, Almace can be a frustrating option unless you are a PLD. PLD and NIN both have great survivability and are high priority for buffing and healing in any group context. As a BLU or RDM, you are expected to be self-sufficient, but Almace's damage potential skews your priorities toward TP gain and maximizing weaponskill/skillchain damage. Almace or not, I am still one of the last people to be saved from Doom, DoT, or just plain pulling hate on a monster truck.
Furthermore, if you're in an alliance without other Empyrean/Relic/Mythic-users, you might find yourself dead fairly often. I have never been a greater fan of enmity control and competent tanks than I am now.
The answer is, which job do you enjoy playing more? You should make the weapon for that job.
Pandemonium.Ironguy
Server: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2600
By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-05-17 17:28:30
blue mage doesn't need almace to perform its only utility outside of the one weakness trigger it provides now in abyssea, and that being cleaving
kannagi ahoy, since this is a rdm vs nin comparison in the first place
to be honest though, if you happen to be worth your grain of salt, you can easily solo both of their respective eighty and eighty-five stages anyways; just takes a little patience and dedication is all
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 47
By Asura.Thalassa 2011-05-17 17:37:14
Pandemonium.Ironguy said: blue mage doesn't need almace to perform its only utility outside of the one weakness trigger it provides now in abyssea, and that being cleaving
kannagi ahoy, since this is a rdm vs nin comparison in the first place
to be honest though, if you happen to be worth your grain of salt, you can easily solo both to their respective eighty and eighty-five stages anyways; just takes a little patience and dedication is all I agree with what Iron said, I have both and honestly BLU doesn't need it to do damage since the spells alone will do enough. NIN on the other hand gains quite a huge benefit when it comes to damage. In conclusion; Kannagi if you're wanting more damage, and Almace if you want an Empy for BLU/RDM/PLD.
Pandemonium.Ironguy
Server: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2600
By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-05-17 17:38:23
sup thalface
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 47
By Asura.Thalassa 2011-05-17 17:39:53
lol nothing much, been awhile^^.
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2011-05-17 17:40:16
Asura.Thalassa said: I agree with what Iron said, I have both and honestly BLU doesn't need it to do damage since the spells alone will do enough. NIN on the other hand gains quite a huge benefit when it comes to damage. In conclusion; Kannagi if you're wanting more damage, and Almace if you want an Empy for BLU/RDM/PLD.
Almace allows BLU to do damage outside of spells and function as a melee DD though, whereas Kannagi is just another x% DoT for NIN.
Asura.Solara
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 536
By Asura.Solara 2011-05-17 17:40:57
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Anything you'd melee on RDM would either be fodder, in which case you might as well be on NIN, or really nasty, in which case you'd probably prefer a PDT sword. Unless you're dead set on pimping out your RDM, I think you'll be happier with the Kannagi in the long run.
I don't necessarily agree with this. RDM survivability has always been it's strong point solo, with most fights essentially being wars of attrition with the mob. For anything that you did not absolutely have to kite/nuke, the damage output of an Almace would be a game changer for soloing.
As for the PDT sword, RDM can hit 49% pdt without one during the day and handily surpass the cap at night, without sacrificing melee ability anytime the gear wasn't macro'd in specifically to take a hit.
Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2011-05-17 17:43:40
Sylph.Deathknight said: Both.
If he wanted to get both he won't even post here to begin with, he posted here means he only wanted to do one..at least for now.
In terms of usefulness I vote for Kannagi, since it's a DD/tank job and RDM being a mage job. You can play RDM just fine without Almace but NIN having Kannagi will help a lot. Not to mention you mentioned you're on NIN most of the time. If you run a LS, and use NIN most of the time for LS event, having a Kannagi will help your LS a lot.
Do Almace if you're a hardcore, fulltime RDM. But unless you really really liked RDM I don't think it's worth the effort.
At least for BLU or PLD, they're both melee jobs and CDC helps a lot. Melee RDM may be for fun, but I don't see much practical use for it.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 47
By Asura.Thalassa 2011-05-17 17:44:32
Bahamut.Raenryong said: Asura.Thalassa said: I agree with what Iron said, I have both and honestly BLU doesn't need it to do damage since the spells alone will do enough. NIN on the other hand gains quite a huge benefit when it comes to damage. In conclusion; Kannagi if you're wanting more damage, and Almace if you want an Empy for BLU/RDM/PLD.
Almace allows BLU to do damage outside of spells and function as a melee DD though, whereas Kannagi is just another x% DoT for NIN. Yeah now that I reread my post I forgot to mention outside of abyssea. But yeah what you're saying is true.
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40
By Siren.Soverance 2011-05-17 17:45:49
lol they're so easy to build you might as well just do both >.>
Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2011-05-17 17:52:50
Bahamut.Raenryong said: Asura.Thalassa said: I agree with what Iron said, I have both and honestly BLU doesn't need it to do damage since the spells alone will do enough. NIN on the other hand gains quite a huge benefit when it comes to damage. In conclusion; Kannagi if you're wanting more damage, and Almace if you want an Empy for BLU/RDM/PLD.
Almace allows BLU to do damage outside of spells and function as a melee DD though, whereas Kannagi is just another x% DoT for NIN.
Against higher lv NM TP->WS with CDC certainly beats spell casting since you can buff your TP and WS dmg easily and harder to buff spell dmg. It's certainly a must have weapon if you play BLU or PLD a lot.
However since OP is asking about RDM then using BLU as example is pretty irrelevant.
Bismarck.Rinomaru
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2056
By Bismarck.Rinomaru 2011-05-17 18:24:51
Siren.Soverance said: lol they're so easy to build you might as well just do both >.> Working on #2 atm lol!
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 294
By Sylph.Agentblade 2011-05-17 18:52:26
I'm kinda in the same boat here, not sure to do kaanagi or almace. My exception is that I Main Blu with pld and nin following not that far behind. Blu and Nin in aby, Blu and Pld outside of aby. I would get more use out of almace job wise, but a kaanagi would help me get my almace since Blade:HI puts out some good numbers in aby. The question is.... Do i really want to farm 100 helms/skins or 50 then work on caladbolg for the change up in farming and competition!
By Shiva.Khimaira 2011-05-17 19:19:24
Sylph.Agentblade said: I'm kinda in the same boat here, not sure to do kaanagi or almace. My exception is that I Main Blu with pld and nin following not that far behind. Blu and Nin in aby, Blu and Pld outside of aby. I would get more use out of almace job wise, but a kaanagi would help me get my almace since Blade:HI puts out some good numbers in aby. The question is.... Do i really want to farm 100 helms/skins or 50 then work on caladbolg for the change up in farming and competition!
Sounds to me like you're asking people to decide what you want more, between 3 empys. Just do both, Caladbolg is nice for DRK but... I'm sorry, DRK really isn't very powerful inside of abyssea, even with empy, compared to a critical hit WS empy job.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 294
By Sylph.Agentblade 2011-05-17 19:26:26
Shiva.Khimaira said: Sylph.Agentblade said: I'm kinda in the same boat here, not sure to do kaanagi or almace. My exception is that I Main Blu with pld and nin following not that far behind. Blu and Nin in aby, Blu and Pld outside of aby. I would get more use out of almace job wise, but a kaanagi would help me get my almace since Blade:HI puts out some good numbers in aby. The question is.... Do i really want to farm 100 helms/skins or 50 then work on caladbolg for the change up in farming and competition! Sounds to me like you're asking people to decide what you want more, between 3 empys. Just do both, Caladbolg is nice for DRK but... I'm sorry, DRK really isn't very powerful inside of abyssea, even with empy, compared to a critical hit WS empy job.
I dont need people to decide for me, was just putting my input in for the OP. I do realize that drk isnt that good in aby, much like pld but I still do alot outside of aby where pld and drk aren't only useful, but alot of fun aswell.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-05-17 19:31:54
I'm growing weary of the "x job isn't useful in x" garbage. Enough now, not optimal != not useful. If you enjoy playing X DD, play that DD. You may be off 1-2000 damage on DRK compared to other jobs, (barring WAR, which is way too easy to play and way too broken), but if you enjoy playing it then play it, just play it correctly.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2821
By Odin.Sheelay 2011-05-17 19:45:32
Siren.Soverance said: lol they're so easy to build you might as well just do both >.>
Build an Almagi
[+]
Caitsith.Mahayaya
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3341
By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2011-05-17 19:55:02
Almace! Melee solo'd Suzaku the other day with Almace and Joytoy offhand, was fun stuff. Never dropped below 800 MP. Bind/Grav on 2hr. Quick and easy fight.
Not like those NMs are hard anymore, just noting the fact that RDM(not the best swordsman) can melee quite well now with the right gear, and the job is versatile enough to be able to switch to bind/gravity kiting if the situation got rough.
Carbuncle.Niusha
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 46
By Carbuncle.Niusha 2011-05-17 22:42:24
Shiva.Khimaira said: I'm sorry, DRK really isn't very powerful inside of abyssea, even with empy, compared to a critical hit WS empy job.
you gotta be kidding, torcleaver still does 2.5-4k on nms, and the aftermath is insane now that you can practically full-time last resort. i go drk/mnk, toss up counterstance and last resort, and proceed to destroy. 1.4k aftermath crits own. and boost is nice to get your attack to 999 for ws... yeah i have to bomb cures on 2nd toon, but my drk definitely outparses my kannagi nin now
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-05-17 22:50:01
Carbuncle.Niusha said: toon
[+]
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-05-18 00:03:07
Carbuncle.Niusha said: Shiva.Khimaira said: I'm sorry, DRK really isn't very powerful inside of abyssea, even with empy, compared to a critical hit WS empy job.
you gotta be kidding, torcleaver still does 2.5-4k on nms, and the aftermath is insane now that you can practically full-time last resort. i go drk/mnk, toss up counterstance and last resort, and proceed to destroy. 1.4k aftermath crits own. and boost is nice to get your attack to 999 for ws... yeah i have to bomb cures on 2nd toon, but my drk definitely outparses my kannagi nin now I'm going to hazard a guess that your NIN doesn't have Kannagi, which makes that an unfair comparison.
Asura.Solara said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Anything you'd melee on RDM would either be fodder, in which case you might as well be on NIN, or really nasty, in which case you'd probably prefer a PDT sword. Unless you're dead set on pimping out your RDM, I think you'll be happier with the Kannagi in the long run.
I don't necessarily agree with this. RDM survivability has always been it's strong point solo, with most fights essentially being wars of attrition with the mob. For anything that you did not absolutely have to kite/nuke, the damage output of an Almace would be a game changer for soloing.
As for the PDT sword, RDM can hit 49% pdt without one during the day and handily surpass the cap at night, without sacrificing melee ability anytime the gear wasn't macro'd in specifically to take a hit. 10 PDT on the sword is an assload of haste elsewhere. Trading out Darksteel Cap +1, Melaco Mittens, and Darksteel Leggings +1 for Zelus Tiara, Dusk Gloves +1, and Dusk Ledelsens +1 is 15% haste for 8% PDT. You should at minimum have Goading Belt and Haste spell, so you're looking at a 23% minimum increase in damage plus the gains in attack vs CDC, ODD (exact rate will vary depending on DWing or no and WS frequency), slightly higher base damage, and some DEX. I'm not going to say that one is better than the other, but RDM's CDC damage isn't that great so I could see alternatives at least being competitive, especially if the mob doesn't take reduced damage from Sanguine Blade.
I'm in a situation where I don't know which empy to get. I've recently got my NIN to 90 and I have capped EVA and Katana's are near cap.
My RDM is in full +2 with my gear setups ect but the question I keep getting asked is "Will you ever use it during a event?", which is a good point. I don't get the chance to fight on RDM much so would the Almace be the best bet?
My NIN is something I'm working on it, just recently did my +1, close to getting +1 hands also. I'm also working on my Zilart missions so I can get the Suppanomimi earring for it (Yes, I don't have it yet).
So my question is, what would you guys do?
(Currently at 21/50 helms and 14/50 skins)
|
|