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Is Hawaii really a state? Proofplz.
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By Asura.Leonlionheart 2011-04-28 16:45:05
Asura.Krebons said: Asura.Leonlionheart said: Asura.Krebons said: Leviathan.Hohenheim said: Being in Hawaii, I can assure you that Hawaii is a state and that it exists :)
I wouldn't so much as to say the 6 hour round island is a state... But it is a place.
D: I live there too, celebrated 50 years of statehood last September...
I did mean to say "this" not "the", I happen to live here to.
/wave then
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By Asura.Krebons 2011-04-28 16:47:10
Asura.Leonlionheart said: Asura.Krebons said: Asura.Leonlionheart said: Asura.Krebons said: Leviathan.Hohenheim said: Being in Hawaii, I can assure you that Hawaii is a state and that it exists :)
I wouldn't so much as to say the 6 hour round island is a state... But it is a place.
D: I live there too, celebrated 50 years of statehood last September...
I did mean to say "this" not "the", I happen to live here to.
/wave then
/wave the same!
Least the weather is nice today.
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By Caitsith.Loughry 2011-04-28 16:48:20
If you come to Hawaii, go to Boot's and Kimo's for macadamia nut pancakes!!
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By Cerberus.Deadplaything 2011-04-28 16:49:55
They 1 tsunami from not being 1
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By Asura.Krebons 2011-04-28 16:50:22
Caitsith.Loughry said: If you come to Hawaii, go to Boot's and Kimo's for macadamia nut pancakes!!
I would vouch, but 80% of the population can make better ones at home >.>;
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By Asura.Leonlionheart 2011-04-28 17:02:27
Cerberus.Deadplaything said: They 1 tsunami from not being 1
lol if there was a tsunami big enough to actually wipe out Hawaii, it would wipe out California and/or the east coast of Asia.
Considering I have a house 4,000ft above sea level, that tsunami might just go on to wipe out most of the world too...
[+]
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-04-28 17:10:10
Asura.Leonlionheart said: Cerberus.Deadplaything said: They 1 tsunami from not being 1
[vague allusion to something that hasn't ever happened without providing factual information to back it up. A what-if theory.]
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By Asura.Leonlionheart 2011-04-28 17:25:10
bra how u tink da dinosaurs ded?
Ramuh.Urial
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By Ramuh.Urial 2011-04-28 17:26:44
Asura.Leonlionheart said: bra how u tink da dinosaurs ded? Oh brah, it got hit by...you know...that thing...ummm da'kine.
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-04-28 17:55:13
Asura.Leonlionheart said: [vague allusion to something that may or may not have happened]
By Shiroineko 2011-04-28 18:11:15
I find the irony amusing. Like 100 years or so ago, Hawaii was a colony of the US. When, what was it, the United Nations decided to get rid of colonies after the last world war, the US would have had to give up Hawaii, so they made it into a state without the consent of the natives. No wonder they don't want to give up 'proof' they are, they never had a say to begin with.
This is just from memory though. I might have gotten some things wrong.
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By Fenrir.Stiklelf 2011-04-28 18:13:13
Leviathan.Hohenheim said: Being in Hawaii, I can assure you that Hawaii is a state and that it exists :) I miss your old photo.
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By Asura.Alexstaifter 2011-04-28 18:26:39
Shiroineko said: I find the irony amusing. Like 100 years or so ago, Hawaii was a colony of the US. When, what was it, the United Nations decided to get rid of colonies after the last world war, the US would have had to give up Hawaii, so they made it into a state without the consent of the natives. No wonder they don't want to give up 'proof' they are, they never had a say to begin with.
This is just from memory though. I might have gotten some things wrong.
That was up about 50+ years ago, you think the current generation would willingly secede from the US?
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2011-04-28 18:32:55
Shiroineko said: I find the irony amusing. Like 100 years or so ago, Hawaii was a colony of the US.
lol lol lol At least 100 years ago
Quote: At least 100 years ago is a typical Wikipedian statement coined at least 100 years ago but under 9000 years ago that passes for accuracy and fact in articles about completely irrelevant history.
Quote: Jesus was born in Bethlehem at least 100 years ago. He then turned water into wine and became a Jew.
By Shiroineko 2011-04-28 18:38:27
Cerberus.Eugene said: Shiroineko said: I find the irony amusing. Like 100 years or so ago, Hawaii was a colony of the US.
lol lol lol At least 100 years ago
Quote: At least 100 years ago is a typical Wikipedian statement coined at least 100 years ago but under 9000 years ago that passes for accuracy and fact in articles about completely irrelevant history.
Quote: Jesus was born in Bethlehem at least 100 years ago. He then turned water into wine and became a Jew.
lol funny :) I didn't get it from wiki though :o it was in my US history class
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-04-28 18:41:27
Cerberus.Eugene said: Shiroineko said: I find the irony amusing. Like 100 years or so ago, Hawaii was a colony of the US.
lol lol lol At least 100 years ago
Quote: At least 100 years ago is a typical Wikipedian statement coined at least 100 years ago but under 9000 years ago that passes for accuracy and fact in articles about completely irrelevant history.
Quote: Jesus was born in Bethlehem at least 100 years ago. He then turned water into wine and became a Jew. from wiki:
Quote: In January 1893, Queen Liliʻuokalani was overthrown and replaced by a Provisional Government composed of members of the Committee of Safety. Controversy filled the following years as the queen tried to re-establish her throne. The administration of President Grover Cleveland commissioned the Blount Report, which concluded that the removal of Liliʻuokalani was illegal. The U.S. government first demanded that Queen Liliʻuokalani be reinstated, but the Provisional Government refused. Congress followed with another investigation, and submitted the Morgan Report on February 26, 1894, which found all parties (including Minister Stevens) with the exception of the queen "not guilty" from any responsibility for the overthrow.[37] The accuracy and impartiality of both the Blount and Morgan reports has been questioned by partisans on both sides of the debate over the events of 1893.[36][38][39][40] separating this one out for importance:
Quote: In 1993, a joint Apology Resolution regarding the overthrow was passed by Congress and signed by President Clinton, apologizing for the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom.[40] It is the first time in American history that the United States government has apologized for overthrowing the government of a sovereign nation.
though regardless...i think Hawaii is a state for good as long as there is a Military Base there because that was the real reason we wanted Hawaii in the first place don'tcahkno!
here's the beefy bits of it:
Quote: After William McKinley won the presidential election in 1896, Hawaii's annexation to the U.S. was again discussed. The previous president, Grover Cleveland, was a friend of Queen Liliʻuokalani. McKinley was open to persuasion by U.S. expansionists and by annexationists from Hawaii. He met with three annexationists from Hawaii: Lorrin Thurston, Francis March Hatch and William Ansel Kinney. After negotiations, in June 1897, Secretary of State John Sherman agreed to a treaty of annexation with these representatives of the Republic of Hawaii.[41]
The treaty was never ratified by the U.S. Senate. Instead, the Newlands Resolution by both houses of Congress annexed the Republic to the United States and it became the Territory of Hawaii. Despite some opposition in the islands, the Newlands Resolution was passed by the House June 15, 1898, by a vote of 209 to 91, and by the Senate on July 6, 1898, by a vote of 42 to 21.
the rest of it boiled down to this:
white folks immigrated to the country and colonized, pushed the current governing power and took over essentially.
Quote: On June 27 of that year, a referendum asked residents of Hawaii to vote on the statehood bill. Hawaii voted 17 to 1 to accept. The choices were to accept the Act or to remain a territory, without the option of independence.
but past that.
I learned this stuff in HS as well though :/
Not in such a detailed manner of course.(IE the secrecy of the whole shabam and whatnot.)
around 50 years for the whole state mark.
but they got *** with a lot by the USA for...about 100 some years, and that's a ballpark, not a made up sum.
Bahamut.Jouliont
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By Bahamut.Jouliont 2011-04-28 18:52:19
http://alohaquest.com/arbitration/letter_010427.htm
Bahamut.Zorander
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2011-04-28 18:55:39
It's a state and screw all you people that live there..
/jealous.
Maui is my favorite place on Earth.
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-04-28 18:57:57
Thank you for that.
And an appropriate quote for all the lazy people who don't want to read all of it(as well as a link)
Quote: The prolonged occupation of the independent State of the Hawaiian Kingdom by the United States of America, is a continual and flagrant violation of the 1907 Hague Conventions IV and V relative to the Laws of War and the rights of Neutral States, respectively, and the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. The Acting Government of the Hawaiian Kingdom also affirms the rights accorded to Hawaiian subjects under international law and related international conventions.
Bahamut.Zorander said: It's a state and screw all you people that live there..
/jealous.
Maui is my favorite place on Earth. Of course it's a state dude lol.
:D
just didn't become one through....legitimate means, not on the part of the Hawaiian people but the US Gov't O'course.
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By Asura.Leonlionheart 2011-04-28 18:59:06
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Eugene said: Shiroineko said: I find the irony amusing. Like 100 years or so ago, Hawaii was a colony of the US.
lol lol lol At least 100 years ago
Quote: At least 100 years ago is a typical Wikipedian statement coined at least 100 years ago but under 9000 years ago that passes for accuracy and fact in articles about completely irrelevant history.
Quote: Jesus was born in Bethlehem at least 100 years ago. He then turned water into wine and became a Jew. from wiki:
Quote: In January 1893, Queen Liliʻuokalani was overthrown and replaced by a Provisional Government composed of members of the Committee of Safety. Controversy filled the following years as the queen tried to re-establish her throne. The administration of President Grover Cleveland commissioned the Blount Report, which concluded that the removal of Liliʻuokalani was illegal. The U.S. government first demanded that Queen Liliʻuokalani be reinstated, but the Provisional Government refused. Congress followed with another investigation, and submitted the Morgan Report on February 26, 1894, which found all parties (including Minister Stevens) with the exception of the queen "not guilty" from any responsibility for the overthrow.[37] The accuracy and impartiality of both the Blount and Morgan reports has been questioned by partisans on both sides of the debate over the events of 1893.[36][38][39][40] separating this one out for importance:
Quote: In 1993, a joint Apology Resolution regarding the overthrow was passed by Congress and signed by President Clinton, apologizing for the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom.[40] It is the first time in American history that the United States government has apologized for overthrowing the government of a sovereign nation.
though regardless...i think Hawaii is a state for good as long as there is a Military Base there because that was the real reason we wanted Hawaii in the first place don'tcahkno!
here's the beefy bits of it:
Quote: After William McKinley won the presidential election in 1896, Hawaii's annexation to the U.S. was again discussed. The previous president, Grover Cleveland, was a friend of Queen Liliʻuokalani. McKinley was open to persuasion by U.S. expansionists and by annexationists from Hawaii. He met with three annexationists from Hawaii: Lorrin Thurston, Francis March Hatch and William Ansel Kinney. After negotiations, in June 1897, Secretary of State John Sherman agreed to a treaty of annexation with these representatives of the Republic of Hawaii.[41]
The treaty was never ratified by the U.S. Senate. Instead, the Newlands Resolution by both houses of Congress annexed the Republic to the United States and it became the Territory of Hawaii. Despite some opposition in the islands, the Newlands Resolution was passed by the House June 15, 1898, by a vote of 209 to 91, and by the Senate on July 6, 1898, by a vote of 42 to 21.
the rest of it boiled down to this:
white folks immigrated to the country and colonized, pushed the current governing power and took over essentially.
Quote: On June 27 of that year, a referendum asked residents of Hawaii to vote on the statehood bill. Hawaii voted 17 to 1 to accept. The choices were to accept the Act or to remain a territory, without the option of independence.
but past that.
I learned this stuff in HS as well though :/
Not in such a detailed manner of course.(IE the secrecy of the whole shabam and whatnot.)
This did happen, but it was more of the white businessmen that caused it rather than the US government. That's what the bit about "The U.S. government first demanded that Queen Liliʻuokalani be reinstated, but the Provisional Government refused." is. Since the white man had been there, probably a hundred years before this had happened, Hawaii had been a poor and corrupted place. Before that it was just farmers like any other native story in the entire world.
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-04-28 19:02:05
Asura.Leonlionheart said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Cerberus.Eugene said: Shiroineko said: I find the irony amusing. Like 100 years or so ago, Hawaii was a colony of the US.
lol lol lol At least 100 years ago
Quote: At least 100 years ago is a typical Wikipedian statement coined at least 100 years ago but under 9000 years ago that passes for accuracy and fact in articles about completely irrelevant history.
Quote: Jesus was born in Bethlehem at least 100 years ago. He then turned water into wine and became a Jew. from wiki:
Quote: In January 1893, Queen Liliʻuokalani was overthrown and replaced by a Provisional Government composed of members of the Committee of Safety. Controversy filled the following years as the queen tried to re-establish her throne. The administration of President Grover Cleveland commissioned the Blount Report, which concluded that the removal of Liliʻuokalani was illegal. The U.S. government first demanded that Queen Liliʻuokalani be reinstated, but the Provisional Government refused. Congress followed with another investigation, and submitted the Morgan Report on February 26, 1894, which found all parties (including Minister Stevens) with the exception of the queen "not guilty" from any responsibility for the overthrow.[37] The accuracy and impartiality of both the Blount and Morgan reports has been questioned by partisans on both sides of the debate over the events of 1893.[36][38][39][40] separating this one out for importance:
Quote: In 1993, a joint Apology Resolution regarding the overthrow was passed by Congress and signed by President Clinton, apologizing for the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom.[40] It is the first time in American history that the United States government has apologized for overthrowing the government of a sovereign nation.
though regardless...i think Hawaii is a state for good as long as there is a Military Base there because that was the real reason we wanted Hawaii in the first place don'tcahkno!
here's the beefy bits of it:
Quote: After William McKinley won the presidential election in 1896, Hawaii's annexation to the U.S. was again discussed. The previous president, Grover Cleveland, was a friend of Queen Liliʻuokalani. McKinley was open to persuasion by U.S. expansionists and by annexationists from Hawaii. He met with three annexationists from Hawaii: Lorrin Thurston, Francis March Hatch and William Ansel Kinney. After negotiations, in June 1897, Secretary of State John Sherman agreed to a treaty of annexation with these representatives of the Republic of Hawaii.[41]
The treaty was never ratified by the U.S. Senate. Instead, the Newlands Resolution by both houses of Congress annexed the Republic to the United States and it became the Territory of Hawaii. Despite some opposition in the islands, the Newlands Resolution was passed by the House June 15, 1898, by a vote of 209 to 91, and by the Senate on July 6, 1898, by a vote of 42 to 21.
the rest of it boiled down to this:
white folks immigrated to the country and colonized, pushed the current governing power and took over essentially.
Quote: On June 27 of that year, a referendum asked residents of Hawaii to vote on the statehood bill. Hawaii voted 17 to 1 to accept. The choices were to accept the Act or to remain a territory, without the option of independence.
but past that.
I learned this stuff in HS as well though :/
Not in such a detailed manner of course.(IE the secrecy of the whole shabam and whatnot.)
This did happen, but it was more of the white businessmen that caused it rather than the US government. That's what the bit about "The U.S. government first demanded that Queen Liliʻuokalani be reinstated, but the Provisional Government refused." is. Since the white man had been there, probably a hundred years before this had happened, Hawaii had been a poor and corrupted place. Before that it was just farmers like any other native story in the entire world.Doesn't make it any less illegitimate.
They governed themselves for decades AFTER people started coming there....it becoming a US territory in the first place was because they had to scratch that sweet naval base on an island itch.
But as for it's current statehood...deff. a state and a good place to film deserted island films.
Bahamut.Jouliont
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By Bahamut.Jouliont 2011-04-28 19:04:11
Np, but what he plans to do if evidence is found that there is no treaty ratifying that Hawaii is a state scares me. D:
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By Asura.Leonlionheart 2011-04-28 19:04:36
But yes it did become a territory and the US was interested in it for its own reasons, being that of it's prime military coordinates. The fact that we had Hawaii in WWII is probably why we don't speak Japanese in Hawaii.
Because of it's military importance, someone eventually would've taken it over. It's better that it was America than Imperial Japan or something else...
Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2011-04-28 19:08:17
Hawaii is a state. Formalities aside it's been acting like a state and treated like a state for 50 years.
Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2011-04-28 19:09:40
In any event this article wasn't questioning the legitimacy of some treaty, it was sarcasm and satire aimed directly at the birther issue.
Bahamut.Jouliont
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By Bahamut.Jouliont 2011-04-28 19:17:17
http://hawaiiankingdom.org/PPT/Legal_History.pptx
Long download but it provides basically how they defend their position of how Hawaii was illegally occupied by U.S.
Bahamut.Jouliont
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By Bahamut.Jouliont 2011-04-28 19:18:04
Cerberus.Eugene said: In any event this article wasn't questioning the legitimacy of some treaty, it was sarcasm and satire aimed directly at the birther issue.
s*** got real bro
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-04-28 20:43:24
Cerberus.Eugene said: Hawaii is a state. Formalities aside it's been acting like a state and treated like a state for 50 years. I wasn't refuting the fact that Hawaii is considered to be a State, that's a bit obvious that it is.
Read what I posted and it tells you exactly what my point was being.
That the U.S. Gov't unlawfully occupied Hawaii via the:
Quote: The administration of President Grover Cleveland commissioned the Blount Report, which concluded that the removal of Liliʻuokalani was illegal. The U.S. government first demanded that Queen Liliʻuokalani be reinstated, but the Provisional Government refused. Congress followed with another investigation, and submitted the Morgan Report on February 26, 1894, which found all parties (including Minister Stevens) with the exception of the queen "not guilty" from any responsibility for the overthrow.[37] The accuracy and impartiality of both the Blount and Morgan reports has been questioned by partisans on both sides of the debate over the events of 1893.
You can say...oh lol this article automatically is satire related only.
but that doesn't mean a serious conversation can come of it.
that's the point of satire in the first place, at least intellectual satire.
so humors aside there's nothing wrong with this discussion coming to be, it's something i still think is *** and obviously others do so.
so i mean yeah i agree with ya, but quashing all other facets of the conversation just because it doesn't have the same humorous relevant factors and figurative TX hicks doesn't mean that it should be dismissed so quickly.
Cerberus.Eugene said: In any event this article wasn't questioning the legitimacy of some treaty, it was sarcasm and satire aimed directly at the birther issue. and?
:D
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By Titan.Rohauce 2011-04-28 21:07:58
Will someone please inform me why the birthers failed to state that Obama's mother has been a citizen, making him a natural born citizen?
This was an interesting article I read on the old huffpo titled "Why Won't Hawaii Produce Documents Proving It's a State?"
link to article
my favorite bit:
"Hawaii has volcanoes. That doesn't sound like America to me."
I love satire when it is done well.
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