Ukko's Fury Setup

That is derailing.

Now can we please overlook / ignore people that derail the thread and actually focus on stuff that matters? like gear sets and questions WARs have? I'm not a war myself but Ive seen great contributions on this thread... It'd be cool to keep it that way and send the drama somewhere else, to PMs if you will, I'm sure no one will care.

Seriously, you can't call the person RESPONDING to offtopic posts out for being off topic. That's like saying the person who punched back after being punched, is the person who started the fight.


Also:

I somehow missed this.
But I did point out that I was reposting them... from a thread on BG, where Churchill and I created them. (speaking of the valk body set)

As for the other 2 sets, I don't see them posted anywhere before I did it.


Seriously? 15 STR and 10 ATT is going to beat 2% Triple attack all the time? There's ways you could skew the math where TA would come out ahead, like if you had capped fSTR or attack. This is why talking about math and doing when things are within a 1-2% difference isn't important. Because you can always skew things into your own favor to prove you are the one who is right.

I'ma be pissed if you get this thread locked. This thread is like, my haven for good solid up to date information

you haven't even done that much.

Because as I just said, you can skew the math into your own favor to "prove" you are right. It's not worth doing it unless the difference is large enough to be undisputed. This is what I really think, why would I bother to post math in my own favor when I know you will just say "oh but if its like this you're wrong." Then change my math to support your own ideals? Seriously, who cares, 1-2% damage isn't worth bringing up when conditions for which set is 1 to 2% ahead aren't crystal clear since the math can always be skewed in either sets favor.

I love you Kaerin!!!! I know your sets are beast! I math'd things out all day!

So, you don't care about what is optimal in a given situation. Only what's "close enough".

Get out.

But isn't that what you try to do? Skew numbers in your favor?

Fine, Porthos wins if you are capping attack and fSTR, happy?

That's what everyone does. Even you, see the NIN TP sets thread for proof of that. You intentionally lowered WS damage and used bad katanas to prove you were right and I was wrong. But if you used realistic WS numbers what I said would win actually came out ahead. I'm just not going to sit here and think doing 1 math problem will prove my point.


It should win if either is capped. But seriously, how are you even going to know for sure if either is capped for every single thing you fight? This is the reason I say it doesn't matter. Until you learn and memorize the VIT and DEF of every single monster in every single event you'll never know which is better. If things are within 1-2% and it swings either way, and you don't know for sure which way its swinging for what you're fighting, it's to much effort to worry about which set you should be using. This is why I say it doesn't matter. You should just use whatever you have easy access to as you work towards what is indisputably the best set, which for WAR TP builds is the Phorcys hat Valk body, Phos belt set. While working towards that set I simply advance the argument that nothing is "Always" second best, so it doesn't matter to much which you are using, as long as you are using something that is situationally second best.

EDIT:::
Earlier comments in this post are expressed with the exception of the accuracy set, you should know when to use that and only use it when your accuracy is terrible.

You say that, and yet you're making DEX builds.

FYI, it's easier to know a mob's defense than AGI.

Oh. You must have missed where I put everything in your favor and your set was still behind.

In case you missed it

Why do you assume that they do not test for conditions, given that there are many sets depending on different cirucmstances? Also, regardless of circumstance...you will never cap fSTR with a GA using any reasonable tp set; it requires you to have (Weapon rank +8)*4 str over enemy VIT. This means you need ~210 STR in TP phase for anything high end.
If you care, having 2% TA is a 1.334/1.30 or 2.62% increase in hits per round. Now lets look at 31 attack and 3fstr. Given a mob, say a normal mob nothing fancy or spectacular so 500 def. Berserk and food put you at ~1000, but you need 2.25*500 or 1125 to cap. Well, lets see 21 attack would be a boost from 2.0 to 2.062. 2.042/2.0 = 1.021 or a 2.1% increase in damage. This is without considering the increased raw DMG boost as well, which we set at 3. If we consider best case for the TA+2% body, base dmg of ukon is 156 + 22 dmg = 178 base damage. 181/178 = 1.017 or a 1.7% increase in damage. Now lets multiply all these lovely factors together:

We have 1.334 attacks per round * 2.0 * 178 damage ~20% crit rate so we get:

(1.334)(178)(.8*2+.2*3*1.18) = 548.039 damage per round
vs
(1.330)(181)(.8*2.042+.2*3*1.18) =563.69 damage per round. Any other factors will multiply each set equally so i left all common factors out that were the same except crits because even if you have 2.25*enemy def your crits will not surpass 3.0 regardless of the fact that they add 1.0.

Was that sufficient for backing up what Jinjo said?

Edit:
Taking fSTR only into consideration
(1.330)(181)(.8*2+.2*3*1.18) = 555.60 damage per round
Taking att only into consideration
(1.33)(178)(.8*2.042+.2*3*1.18) = 554.35 damage per round.

You lose if you gain from either and the fSTR is going to happen regardless of what you're fighting I am 99.99% certain as long as its EP or higher and you're not in abyssea.

Except you didn't put everything in my favor. I would go change your math to prove my sets could win again under slightly different circumstances, but that's way to much effort at this point for a closed thread and ended discussion. How about we just say we use the usukane set and your set is only at 85% accuracy. There, my set wins now. See how easy that was? It works with everything else too.

Except your set has less acc than usukane? lol just get the *** out already.

To be "fair" to him, the Porthos set uses the new belt with +10 attack, putting NQ grim only 18 attack ahead, but "he wouldn't spend money on inferior items" anyways. Contradictions galore.

I don't automatically assume people don't test for different circumstances. I just don't think it matters so much.


Abyssea says "Hi, you can cap fSTR and attack in me pretty easily."

There's 1 place where Grim could easily be shown to not be better. Again, who cares if you're losing 1 or 2% damage on your TP set sometimes and gaining 1 or 2% at other times while working working towards acquiring the best? I'm simply saying this isn't important, and there are lots of alternatives to use while working towards the best.


EDIT:::

Maybe I'm the only one who carries around a fire set still, but I view a 30 fire res belt as something you'd carry around anyway.

Then why do you go out of your way to post sets that are worse most of the time?

The NIN AF3+2 pants and Usukane shoes set was one of the 2 sets I advocated using. I know it's been awhile since the thread was closed, so I'm just making it clear.

But you just stated your set was better uncapped acc when it has less acc than the usukane set, and no, you didn't advocate the usukane set until much later after your set was proven it was worse.

I thought I accounted for that; grim is 30 attack + 11.75 from str and i rounded down - 10 for the body he replaced it with and -10 more for the belt. Though I could have easily overlooked the rest of the set, I didnt pay too much attention as I already did the math for most of the new stuff myself and was unimpressed by most pieces for brav. Regardless, 18 attack would still come out on top:
(1.33)(178)(.8*2.036+.2*3*3.18) = 553.21.

As for the abyssea comments: yes, you can but if you would like to compare for that scenario there are many other factors to take into consideration...but yes It would pull ahead although It would only be a small margin inside abyssea when you were fully buffed, and I have no clue when you are not. But when it comes to thinks relevant to the game, it is not coming out ahead.

Edit:
I am not trying to rag on you at all; I do appreciate people looking at things and willing to make better steps but I do not appreciate people who refuse at every turn to do math. I cannot say if you do not know how to do it or simply refuse not to but I know you're more arrogant than the people you've been arguging with.

This is taken from my first post:

"The original argument for using Usukane shoes was that the 7 STP decreases your attack rounds to 100 TP by 1, same for STP5+ Byakkos."

Clearly I'm talking about Usukane shoes+AF3+2 pants set as well as the Byakkos haidate and AF3+2 shoes set.

EDIT:::

Abyssea doesn't have people in it still? There's more people doing abyssea on a regular basis than voidwatch or legion.

And yet you never were for that set until after your haidate set got shot down. Also, nice edit. "This doesn't even account for the other stats associated with either option. I.E. attack and accuracy or accuracy and crit damage/potentially crit rate as 20 DEX is a lot." wasn't there originally.

Yes, it was there originally, you were just to caught up in your BS to notice it. Edited Posts are marked as being edited, and even list the time they were edited. That post does not have anything of the sort.

This isn't BG, you can edit posts with nobody knowing.

It's not displayed. :)

if. this. thread. gets. locked. I. will. raise. hell. :X.






seriously, we've established he/she's not gonna realize they're wrong or post useful information, let's just stop posting! :D yeayyyyy everyone wins! (or loses...)

So your new argument to save face is to say I ninja edited the post 2? 3? weeks later? Sounds pretty pathetic on your part. How about if it's not displayed you ask a mod, then the mod can come in here and tell everyone you're just being dumb. Go right ahead, I give my permission to any mod to reveal if I ever edited that post, if they even need it. I only ask that the Mod post when/if it was edited as well as the original post date and time.

See?

Abyssea is mostly irrelevant because you're not doing anything where an increase in your damage is actually going to matter regardless of how big the increase is the mobs gonna die within a few seconds. Either way I did say your body piece would be superior in that case, but you should also look at many cases where it will not. You say people that use math are blind and arrogant but you refuse to accept the fact that a majority of the time they are right and the statement Jinjo made is sufficiently accurate. The worst part is Jinjo did not pick a body piece that was remotely close to the best for comparison.