While JRPGs at their core aren't that great and tend to be overwritten and melodramatic in nature, I couldn't get over the fact that XIII ignored the very things that made the genre tolerable to begin with. It's as if they embraced what makes the genre terrible to begin with and swung with it. While I'll likely have to play some more to discern whether character development is legitimate or simply puppeted from plot devices.
Not to say that hasn't happened in the past, but plenty of FF titles have had enriching character development that were just given the circumstance and gravity of the situation. FF9 is a perfect example of that in my opinion.
To enjoy the game to its fullest, you need to forget the previous games and erase any expectation you may have based off of previous titles. It's a new generation RPG and new generation RPGs have a completely different structure to the old guard.
While JRPGs at their core aren't that great and tend to be overwritten and melodramatic in nature, I couldn't get over the fact that XIII ignored the very things that made the genre tolerable to begin with. It's as if they embraced what makes the genre terrible to begin with and swung with it. While I'll likely have to play some more to discern whether character development is legitimate or simply puppeted from plot devices.
Not to say that hasn't happened in the past, but plenty of FF titles have had enriching character development that were just given the circumstance and gravity of the situation. FF9 is a perfect example of that in my opinion.
To enjoy the game to its fullest, you need to forget the previous games and erase any expectation you may have based off of previous titles. It's a new generation RPG and new generation RPGs have a completely different structure to the old guard.
I understand your point, and it is fair to say as each FF title stands on it's own, with it's own sense of identity and merit. However, the consistent use of references and allusions in creative and innovative ways; as if to reinvent themselves with each new and unique title is what made me enjoy the FF franchise as a whole, regardless of which title was being played at the time. I always knew I was gonna eventually see a creative new design for chocobos, moogles, tonberries, cactuars, overworld design and theme, within a game that was fun and interesting on it's own terms while still intermingled with what made an FF, an FF.
To abandon or perverse these very elements is what made FF13 so frustrating to me. To see the intro akin to a bad 1980s action film and characters that felt out of place or adhering to some bizarre cliche of race, age and personality, and to literally turn the summons into Transformers really put the final nail in the coffin for the FF franchise to me. I could not bring myself to play it anymore regardless of what facade of redeeming qualities were down the end of the narrow hallway. I just couldn't bring myself to it.
Why endure an alienating and confusing string of *** to justify itself at the very final hours of the game? I just don't get it. It was not enjoyable to me in a consistent manner as previous titles were.
Allegory is difficult to articulate on paper, but my point is that the FF franchise for many years was successful at giving form to abstract concepts of artistic and creative output within the RPG element all wrapped up and bow-tied with a relatively great story. But for whatever reason, I felt absolutely no connection to the former elements that made previous titles hit or feel at home. It was a shell of it's former self, twisted and perverted into something else or otherwise outright neglected to it's overall essence.
While JRPGs at their core aren't that great and tend to be overwritten and melodramatic in nature, I couldn't get over the fact that XIII ignored the very things that made the genre tolerable to begin with. It's as if they embraced what makes the genre terrible to begin with and swung with it. While I'll likely have to play some more to discern whether character development is legitimate or simply puppeted from plot devices.
Not to say that hasn't happened in the past, but plenty of FF titles have had enriching character development that were just given the circumstance and gravity of the situation. FF9 is a perfect example of that in my opinion.
To enjoy the game to its fullest, you need to forget the previous games and erase any expectation you may have based off of previous titles. It's a new generation RPG and new generation RPGs have a completely different structure to the old guard.
I understand your point, and it is fair to say as each FF title stands on it's own, with it's own sense of identity and merit. However, the consistent use of references and allusions in creative and innovative ways; as if to reinvent themselves with each new and unique title is what made me enjoy the FF franchise as a whole, regardless of which title was being played at the time. I always knew I was gonna eventually see a creative new design for chocobos, moogles, tonberries, cactuars, overworld design and theme, within a game that was fun and interesting on it's own terms while still intermingled with what made an FF, an FF.
To abandon or perverse these very elements is what made FF13 so frustrating to me. To see the intro akin to a bad 1980s action film and characters that felt out of place or adhering to some bizarre cliche of race, age and personality, and to literally turn the summons into Transformers really put the final nail in the coffin for the FF franchise to me. I could not bring myself to play it anymore regardless of what facade of redeeming qualities were down the end of the narrow hallway. I just couldn't bring myself to it.
Why endure an alienating and confusing string of *** to justify itself at the very final hours of the game? I just don't get it. It was not enjoyable to me in a consistent manner as previous titles were.
I know how you feel, I really do, I had to try VERY VERY hard to keep an open mind and continue playing until the game started to draw me in, but it took a good 10-15 hours. The transformer summons almost made me turn off the game though >_>
The transformer summons almost made me turn off the game though >_>
The only difference between me and you is, I did ._.
But I'll give it another go once I gain the patience to sit through it with a clear head. I still feel as if I've had my soulmate cheat on me.
I quite like the changes they've made in FFXIII. I'm still only on chapter 4 though, so that may change, but so far it's been a refreshing change of pace.
Except the levelling system. God damn, I'd even take the license board again over that crap.
I'm not sure what you feel was perverted in XIII, Arte.
I mean, Transformer Eidolons (even though there are really only two of them) were pretty bad.
But other than a lack of re-visitable towns and the ability to chat to random NPCs who don't really add anything but some novelty to the game, I can't think of anything.
EDIT @Leon: Wut? It's practically a less sprawling Sphere Grid.
I'm not sure what you feel was perverted in XIII, Arte.
I mean, Transformer Eidolons (even though there are really only two of them) were pretty bad.
But other than a lack of re-visitable towns and the ability to chat to random NPCs who don't really add anything but some novelty to the game, I can't think of anything.
The forced rate of exploration is a hard pill to swallow until the game opens up later on. I mean, on one hand it focuses the player more on the progressing the story which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but unfortunately it feels as though you are being forced into playing the game in a predetermined direction.
Secondly, the sphere grid again forces your skill progression, apart from a few branches on the grid that open minor abilities and traits, you don't get to choose your abilities, they are again predetermined and limited as you cannot stray from the main story to gain more CP.
Edit: Also, the characters ultimately all have the same skillset, sure some are better suited to specific roles but in the end they lack a definite position in the team, whereas in previous games each character had unique skill/abilities that were incorporated into the storyline, not just battles.
You know that's probably why I fell in love so deeply with the Zelda franchise after the travesty that I call Final Fantasy XIII. Zelda has managed to retain a core story of rescuing a damsel in distress while retaining the same protagonist and antagonist throughout. However, with each title it manages to magnificently reinvent itself without wearing itself too thin. Each one taking place in it's own era of time in the land of Hyrule. The hero Link, literally being a legend of old that rebirths itself into fruition, generation to generation including Zelda and Ganon. And while at the core it stays the same, each game takes on a different sense of direction in which the story is presented, so you're never quite playing the same game twice even if it appears so on paper.
I remember playing A Link to the Past, and reading those old Hylian manuscripts and engravings. Filling me with a great mystery and suspense over what ancient Hyrule must have been like and what happened to bring it into the current state. Only to notice the exact same linguistics in the Ocarina of Time and dropping my jaw to realize that I was now playing in the very thing I had pondered 6 years ago. Small things like that in a broad and creative level presented throughout the franchise is what makes Zelda utterly timeless and charming, no matter which title you play.
The forced rate of exploration is a hard pill to swallow until the game opens up later on. I mean, on one hand it focuses the player more on the progressing the story which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but unfortunately it feels as though you are being forced into playing the game in a predetermined direction.
Secondly, the sphere grid again forces your skill progression, apart from a few branches on the grid that open minor abilities and traits, you don't get to choose your abilities, they are again predetermined and limited as you cannot stray from the main story to gain more CP.
Ah, true. I kinda forgot you weren't forced to get everything on the Sphere Grid to progress.
FFX did the same thing as far as progression went, though. Except there were safe places that you could *** around in (and not really accomplish anything) for about an hour along the way.
I recently played Link to the Past, tbh I didn't enjoy it quite as much as I thought I would, it was fairly repetitive and dare I say it is overrated >_> but I see it more as a dry run for Ocarina of Time.
While I liked the Sphere Grid for breaking free of the chains of static level ups and attribute rate gains, the positioning and direction of the grid felt like a superficial guise of giving each character their own sense of identity in terms of relatable class to the game.
I liked it when characters had unique abilities and spells that aided me through various contrasting and difficult battles. It helped me learn to live with and love each character for who they were and what they were able to do, rather than picking my favorite three aesthetically pleasing characters and making them superman on the grid.
I recently played Link to the Past, tbh I didn't enjoy it quite as much as I thought I would, it was fairly repetitive and dare I say it is overrated >_> but I see it more as a dry run for Ocarina of Time.
I recently played Link to the Past, tbh I didn't enjoy it quite as much as I thought I would, it was fairly repetitive and dare I say it is overrated >_> but I see it more as a dry run for Ocarina of Time.
I dunno. Perhaps you had to have played it as a kid and look back on it to really see it for what it's worth. I remember the dungeon music giving a grim and foreboding atmosphere. I'd nervously yet frantically crawl through each room trying to find the treasure I needed and get the boss key so I could face my fate. Then finally opening that door to find something gigantic and hideous, frantically trying to figure out the strategy and pattern to defeat it while simultaneously not trying to get impaled, crushed, or blown away, made for a remarkable and tangible sense of triumph upon defeat. Only to realize I had to traverse to SIX other equally dangerous and difficult dungeons just so I can defeat the evil demon king responsible for this whole mess.
It's a difficult disposition to recreate; to legitimately urge and self-motivate you forward yet consistently dreading the trials and beasts to come.
The forced rate of exploration is a hard pill to swallow until the game opens up later on. I mean, on one hand it focuses the player more on the progressing the story which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but unfortunately it feels as though you are being forced into playing the game in a predetermined direction.
Secondly, the sphere grid again forces your skill progression, apart from a few branches on the grid that open minor abilities and traits, you don't get to choose your abilities, they are again predetermined and limited as you cannot stray from the main story to gain more CP.
Ah, true. I kinda forgot you weren't forced to get everything on the Sphere Grid to progress.
FFX did the same thing as far as progression went, though. Except there were safe places that you could *** around in (and not really accomplish anything) for about an hour along the way.
Indeed, I think that freedom to progress the story at your own pace was very important to the fans because indulging in the side quest mysteries and little easter eggs really made it feel more personal and adventurous. Just look at the rumours that surround the previous games side quests and the cult followings they achieved for an example as to the importance of that freedom (for example the Aeris rumours from FF7, alien sightings from FF8, Excalibur II from FF9 and who could forget the card games!). Finding secret items and enjoying little revelations through investigating side quests were what made the games so enjoyable for me personally. FFXIII doesn't have that, you don't explore, you get forced down decorated corridors going from one chapter to the next. When side quests eventually do open up they are still not things that you discover, more a list of achievements to work through.
I recently played Link to the Past, tbh I didn't enjoy it quite as much as I thought I would, it was fairly repetitive and dare I say it is overrated >_> but I see it more as a dry run for Ocarina of Time.
While I liked the Sphere Grid for breaking free of the chains of static level ups and attribute rate gains, the positioning and direction of the grid felt like a superficial guise of giving each character their own sense of identity in terms of relatable class to the game.
I liked it when characters had unique abilities and spells that aided me through various contrasting and difficult battles. It helped me learn to live with and love each character for who they were and what they were able to do, rather than picking my favorite three aesthetically pleasing characters and making them superman on the grid.
To be fair, you can't really superman with the Crystarium until post-game. Until then, it's a really really bad idea to try to force characters into roles they can't really compete in.
Even then, it's still a bad idea to throw say, Hope or Vanille into a Sentinel role because of how terribly they function in it compared to Snow or Fang.
And uniqueness is pretty cool, but it's hardly been standard for Final Fantasy games.
MQ, II (from Origins), III, V, VI, VII, VIII, X, X-2, XI, XII and Tactics all, in one way or another, have a way to superman characters with only minor differences in base stats by the end of the game.
I recently played Link to the Past, tbh I didn't enjoy it quite as much as I thought I would, it was fairly repetitive and dare I say it is overrated >_> but I see it more as a dry run for Ocarina of Time.
I dunno. Perhaps you had to have played it as a kid and look back on it to really see it for what it's worth. I remember the dungeon music giving a grim and foreboding atmosphere. I'd nervously yet frantically crawl through each room trying to find the treasure I needed and get the boss key so I could face my fate. Then finally opening that door to find something gigantic and hideous, frantically trying to figure out the strategy and pattern to defeat it while simultaneously not trying to get impaled, crushed, or blown away, made for a remarkable and tangible sense of triumph upon defeat. Only to realize I had to traverse to SIX other equally dangerous and difficult dungeons just so I can defeat the evil demon king responsible for this whole mess.
It's a difficult disposition to recreate; to legitimately urge and self-motivate you forward yet consistently dreading the trials and beasts to come.
Oh it was a frickin good game for sure, I agree the music was brilliant considering the limitations of the console. The puzzles, don't get me started, I hate Nintendo for Zelda puzzles, they make me feel really stupid when I eventually figure them out >_>;
Oh it was a frickin good game for sure, I agree the music was brilliant considering the limitations of the console. The puzzles, don't get me started, I hate Nintendo for Zelda puzzles, they make me feel really stupid when I eventually figure them out >_>;
FIVE DAYS!
It took me FIVE FREAKIN DAYS to figure out where to get that last silver key underneath in the room that the cube blocks until you make it float to the mid-level floor.
While I liked the Sphere Grid for breaking free of the chains of static level ups and attribute rate gains, the positioning and direction of the grid felt like a superficial guise of giving each character their own sense of identity in terms of relatable class to the game.
I liked it when characters had unique abilities and spells that aided me through various contrasting and difficult battles. It helped me learn to live with and love each character for who they were and what they were able to do, rather than picking my favorite three aesthetically pleasing characters and making them superman on the grid.
To be fair, you can't really superman with the Crystarium until post-game. Until then, it's a really really bad idea to try to force characters into roles they can't really compete in.
Even then, it's still a bad idea to throw say, Hope or Vanille into a Sentinel role because of how terribly they function in it compared to Snow or Fang.
And uniqueness is pretty cool, but it's hardly been standard for Final Fantasy games.
MQ, II (from Origins), III, V, VI, VII, VIII, X, X-2, XI, XII and Tactics all, in one way or another, have a way to superman characters with only minor differences in base stats by the end of the game.
True, but they still had unique abilities, usually in the form of limit breaks if not character abilities and those abilities were reflected in the character development throughout the story. There are no ablities in XIII that make the characters unique :(
This is a thread that I found on another website I post at. It can be really really interesting. I thought it deserved a place here.
Post your random thoughts for the day here, or anything else that intrigues you.
For starters, is it possible to give constructive critism to someone who doesn't have a neck? I totally just walked by a girl who didn't. Someone isn't getting a necklace for Valentines day!
And who decided black and white can't be colors? I want to say a racist. I really do.
