Random Thoughts.....What Are You Thinking?

You know what's funny? People who don't even play eroge games AND they fight for other people's freedom to play very controversial kind of eroge games only because they feel they are oppressed by feminists, not because they are real eroge game player with their right being taken away.

Lol.

Everyone has different tolerance on different activities.....

Something you find it untolerable may be tolerable for some and vice versa.

Oh I know.

I get grossed out by the weirdest things.

So Visa/MC should get to decide what illegal sexual conduct is permissible to profit off of? This is the slippery slope i originally alluded to.

Youre missing the point completely big dog.

Im arguing in favor for your ability to continue having access to eroge games because of the slippery slope that may present itself.

I have no problem with illegal content not being accessible through these payment systems. However, the fictional content being illegal in one country doesnt mean the rest of the world should be subject to it.

If you don't like it, use JCB and buy games on DLsite with vpn. Then visa/MC will lose power on this matter.

Entity with wealth distribution right always gets power over another. That's how human society works. Plus they also have the moral high ground here. Visa/MC isn't the only entity that uses their wealth distribution power to enforce certain policy.

Either way, if you aren't eroge game players, whatever policy that they enforce don't affect you. I don't understand the reason to fight for it if you aren't affected. Sounds like you are just mad because someone else has power, not because you are personally affected.

No, not really. Those contents are still exist on different website/regions. I just gave you directions on how to buy them in the last post.

Visa/MC isn't the only payment system you know? If you don't like them having power, stop using Visa/MC. I know a lot of Dlsite users actually switched to JCB and cut ties from visa/MC years ago because of these. At least they don't only complain.

What Nynja is saying is that if you allow credit card companies to dictate what games you make, it follows you will allow them or someone like them to dictate what TV you make, or what movies you make, or any content.

It's like saying "Why have laws that enforce freedom of speech if it's not affecting you directly".

Because it affects everyone, everywhere.

They didn't indicate what games you can make in this case though? They only pressured platform(Steam) and the platform agreed with their demand.

Game makers can still make r18 games with any content, and either sell it on their website, different website or use patch to add r18 content (people have been doing that for years)

I don't see it as hindering freedom of speech because platforms have as much freedom to make rules as game makers making their games.

It's like, if a forum decided to ban certain topic is it hindering freedom of speech? The forum get to make the rules, you can say things on different platform or on the street instead.

The platform agreed because its borderline impossible to sell stuff online when visa, MC, and Paypal wont do business with you.


Inb4” But SE uses crysta, steam can make their own currency”

and tell me how does one buy crysta???

I don't play eroge games probably for the same reason I don't watch porn. They are visual, I'm into tactile. (If they ever come out with feeley porn I might be in trouble.)

But they are both free speech issues, or actually the same free speech issue and therefore worth defending.

Visa and mastercard are businesses, not governments. They have no interest in free speech, only profits. If they loose money from this, say because gamers switching to discover or another card, they will change their tune.

I dont think Visa/MC are gonna lose profits because some F-tier feminist group is threatening to boycott them if they dont force [checks notes] steam to pull games with questionable fictional content from their library. They're gonna realize how much they use their Visa/MC for various things, including various subscriptions they use that wont accept debit, and cave.

Also I hate to break it to you, despite being #4 world wide in number of card holders, AmEx (#3) and Discover are small time players compared to Visa/MC.


No ones getting a Discover or Amex card just to buy games off Steam. The publishers will move to Epic and Steam goes under, which would be the absolute worst thing for the PC gaming community.

I highly suggest you continue enjoying what's left of your blessed Friday instead

Like Gintama :)

No, Steam's r18 game policy wasn't nearly as free as you thought even before this visa/MC drama. There were report of people had their sfw game got rejected only because their game looks "anime". And that all happened YEARS ago.

tl;dr: Steam really never liked adult games that much to begin with.

Most game dev bypassed the loophole by selling their "safe" version on Steam and provide a r18 patch on external site so Steam won't give them trouble. Then Steam allowed this grey area method.

Afaik, this ban wave only happened to games that didn't use external r18 patch. Those who uses patch are still safe.

This is one of the most popular incest game on Steam, you can sexual assault MC's sister and sex with her. This game uses r18+ patch and it's still safe even now.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2429860/Living_With_Sister_Monochrome_Fantasy/

Again, Steam isn't a government platform. It's a private platform and they have freedom to dislike r18+ because they value social reputation or something. It's not their obligation to ensure freedom of speech, they only allowed r18+ games on their platform because they want your sales money.

So this "use r18+ patch on external site" is a middle ground compromise for both groups. Game dev get to sell their r18 games on Steam, Steam get to keep their reputation while making money. This formula worked for YEARS and most r18+ games dev are fine with it.

And now people(who probably doesn't play adult games) are making a
big fuss because Steam started to enforce their long time policy more. To me it sounds like taking the opportunity to play the politic games.

Don't worry, there is always a market for rape/incest games. You can't ban them all. If certain platform bans them they'll go to another platform. If visa/MC bans everything with a market people will use or start other payment processor. The market will find a way.

As far as I can tell now though, those games are still alive on Steam atm, if they followed Steam's external patch policy that is.


I mentioned JCB for like 3 times already, did you even read? Japan is really the only country that allowed more extreme "kinks" like rape or incest, if you want to ensure your access to those things, using Japanese CC is the best bet.


I thought people also uses JCB for JP account.

That JCB?

Yeah, they sent a letter, so? You think Japanese will give a *** about what westerners think about their rape sim?

They've dealt with this drama way back in 2006 or so, when UK politicians pressure them to ban a rape sim game that allows the player to stalk and rape a mother and her 2 underage daughter and make them pregnant.

Guess what's Japanese response? They blocked western IP from accessing those games and continue to sell it in Japan.

So it's not like western opinions on those games matters to begin with.

If a society mostly allowed these kind of games to exist then they will exist. If they don't then they won't exist. It's really that simple.

Japan allowed those games to exist and Steam allowed it to exist via external patch. I don't see an issue at all.

im goin to cas to burn some bills

What, never use VPN before?

Large amount of Japanese entertainment services like MMO blocks western IP, not just rape sims.

Using VPN for Japanese stuff is about as common as drinking water.

Or....just buy the game on steam and download r18 patch, lol. No VPN needed this way. You are making a big fuss over nothing.

Or, if even that is unacceptable to you, start telling your conservative friends and churches that people should be allowed to play rape sim and incest games. Then maybe after 50 years western society will be more open minded towards this due to your effort. Just don't get yourself burned by moral people in the process.

How do I make a funny joke without disclosing I know what Afanias is talking about...

I give up

the issue isn't access to degenerate porn games, it's payment processors using financial pressure to enforce their morality

frankly, i support banning degenerate porn games in isolation but i know how the overton window has been trending and the idea of giving blackrock control over what gets produced is horrifying

It's really no different from customers choose to boycott certain brand/corporation because for morality reasons though?

So, how come customers boycott corporation and give them financial pressure for moral reasons is okay but corporations using financial pressure to enforce morality is not okay?

Where is the line? How come using financial pressure is okay for one side but not okay for another?

To me it seems like people aren't really fighting for freedom, they are fighting against rich entity with more power than them. So when people dislike a company for moral reasons they can use their financial pressure to boycott corporation because customers are the one with power in this case.

Then when corporations also wants to use their freedom and financial pressure to enforce their things suddenly it's against freedom of speech, even though the law didn't ban those games, it is private company(which should have freedom to use their financial pressure however they want like customers too) that did.

I just don't understand the logic here. Well, unless the logic here is "corporations aren't allowed to have more power than me", then at least you should make that clear.

I don't worry about blackrock/corporation power nearly as much as you do. Nor I believe blackrock will have full control on everything produced in this world. If you truly believe in free market then you shouldn't fear.

If corporations ban things with strong market demand, people will start using a different payment processor to buy those things and Visa/MC will lose market share. Just because they have the highest market share now, doesn't mean they will never lose it. Free market will find a way to make things work if strong market demand for those games exist.

If most people are okay with Visa/MC's moral stance, then what they did don't matter, because it's in line with the need of the majority.

IMHO the line was crossed when the United States' supreme court said that corporations can have religion other than the worship of the almighty dollar.

a boycott requires some level of consensus for a large group to be effective.

A corp is often viewed as an individual.

Do you think you as an individual should have the power to remove content with out input from anyone else? Do you believe general outrage that dictator afania is taking away our expression would follow such an action?

This is precisely not how corp work though? And definitely not visa/master card since they are publicly traded company no? Corp=one individual really apply to a company with one individual owning more than 50% of shares.

Corp is an entity formed by many individuals. And whatever they are enforcing isn't the idea of one men, but backed many people.


If I own the content/platform then yes, because it's mine, it's not owned by public sector. If I don't own them then no. We are not talking about law enforcement from government here, we are talking about private business practices in free market.

Steam owned the rules of their own platform so they get to decide what they want to sell and what they don't sell. Steam doesn't have the obligation to do business with everybody.

Game dev(or investors who own the IP) get to decide what content is in their game. But whether Steam wants to sell it is their freedom. Customers also has freedom to choose whether to buy them or not after release.

Business get to decide who they do business with. If visa/MC don't want to do business with rape sim buyers/makers then they get to decide their service aren't going to serve them. A business should have freedom to blacklist their customers. And in the case of visa/MC, people who uses their services to pay/receive money are their customers. They have no obligation to serve everyone.

Customers get to decide what product to pay. You can boycott woke games, rape sims, visa/MC or steam however you want. I never stop you.


But you tell me any of the above aren't allowed to use their freedom and power to make their own decisions, then you aren't fighting for freedom, because your standard isn't the same on every party.

If you don't like visa/MC having power, then don't use their services like Japanese did then they'll lose market share and power. If most people don't feel like boycotting them over rape sims drama, then maybe what they did with their power didn't affect most people.


That is irrelevant. Are you saying because customers boycott is harder to be effective therefore corp deserves less freedom than individual? Now that's against freedom IMO.

The whole thing is basically "I don't like corporations having more power than me so I'm gonna fight them.", not even based on the principle of law nor freedom.

In the eyes of the law, corporations are individuals.

Isn't "entity" a more correct term than "individuals"?

An "entity" doesn't have rights, so no.