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NJ Legislation Bans TSA Scanners + more
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-12-07 13:40:29
Lakshmi.Aurilius said: "I'm sorry sir I have to stick this optical cable up your *** in order to see your rectal cavity. We can't have another terrorist attack now can we?"
that thing run on fiber? :D
Ragnarok.Zanno
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By Ragnarok.Zanno 2010-12-07 13:44:15
Gilgamesh.Tweeek
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By Gilgamesh.Tweeek 2010-12-07 13:44:33
Phoenix.Huginn said: Phoenix.Kojo said: Except for the guy masturbating to the scans.. Don't you think this is getting a bit outta hand? Do any of you guys actually fly anywhere? The scanner sends a non-detailed scan to a closed room where a guy may or may not be jerking it, no one actually sees it, you and the viewer never come face-to-face, and it's alot faster than individual pat-downs. what do you mean "non-detailed?" the images released to the public as well as those pilfered from the federal courthouse (with matching normal picture) in orlando are degraded from what the actual scan shows. the guys in the back with < hands > in < trousers >, < jerkin > are looking at crystal clear 3d images of you with a single color (shaded for detail) skin. they basically see you naked but with a thin layer of body paint
how do you know this? show us a pic so we know wtf you're talking about
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-07 13:44:42
Mogue, this is a good case to look into in regards to the Bricker Amendment, and it's loosely similar in regards to state-federal disagreement.
Missouri v. Hollandbasically:
Quote: Previously, Congress had passed laws regulating the hunting of migratory waterfowl on the basis that such birds naturally migrated across state and international borders freely, and hence the regulation of the harvest of such birds could not realistically be considered to be province solely of individual states or groups of states.
Quote: Congress, disgruntled with this ruling, then empowered the State Department to negotiate with the United Kingdom, which at the time still largely handled the foreign relations of Canada, a treaty pertaining to this issue. The treaty was subsequently ratified and came into force, and required the Federal Government to enact laws regulating the capturing, killing, or selling of the protected migratory birds [1], an obligation that it fulfilled in the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918. The state of Missouri then sued on the basis that the federal government had no authority to negotiate a treaty on this topic.
how it's been taken with society:
Quote: Many persons saw[1] and still see[2] this ruling as a dangerous implication that Congress or the President could essentially amend the Constitution by the means of treaties with other countries that would abrogate the rights of the people or the States otherwise protected by American law. These concerns came to a head in the 1950s with the Bricker Amendment, a series of proposed amendments which would have placed restrictions on the scope and ratification of treaties and executive agreements entered into by the United States. The Bricker Amendment nearly passed Congress with the required two-thirds majority. More recently, a similar provision has been proposed as the fourth article of the Bill of Federalism, a list of ten proposed amendments drafted by law professor Randy Barnett.
Thomas Healy has suggested that Missouri may not even be 'good law' - meaning that more recent decisions could be seen to overturn Missouri, and establish new limits on the Treaty power[3].
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-07 13:46:44
Gilgamesh.Tweeek said: how do you know this? show us a pic so we know wtf you're talking about you aren't going to get a real answer with a question like that.
try this one.
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Phoenix.Huginn said: Phoenix.Kojo said: Except for the guy masturbating to the scans.. Don't you think this is getting a bit outta hand? Do any of you guys actually fly anywhere? The scanner sends a non-detailed scan to a closed room where a guy may or may not be jerking it, no one actually sees it, you and the viewer never come face-to-face, and it's alot faster than individual pat-downs. what do you mean "non-detailed?" the images released to the public as well as those pilfered from the federal courthouse (with matching normal picture) in orlando are degraded from what the actual scan shows. the guys in the back with < hands > in < trousers >, < jerkin > are looking at crystal clear 3d images of you with a single color (shaded for detail) skin. they basically see you naked but with a thin layer of body paint how do you know this?
not trying to "prove you wrong", in the least so don't go on a tangent explaining your values, specifically where did you get this information, I am curious about that.
Seraph.Pjohn
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By Seraph.Pjohn 2010-12-07 13:47:43
Luz said: One thing real quick. There's a difference between attacks on airlines and school shootings. Once the terrorists have control of an airliner or blow it up, there's nothing you can do to save the lives of the people onboard. Once someone starts shooting up a school, everyone goes inside and locks their doors and the police come to deal with it. Granted he may have hostages, there's still preventive actions that can be taken to control the damage of the attack. When there is thousands of feet between you and the ground, there isn't. Different types of attacks require different precautions. Nah this is wrong if the guy is in the same room and is bent on killing people just like a "terrorist" nothing can be done. But you can prevent him from hurting people in the surrounding areas.
The air force will do the same.
Ragnarok.Zanno
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By Ragnarok.Zanno 2010-12-07 13:50:24
Gilgamesh.Tweeek said: Phoenix.Huginn said: Phoenix.Kojo said: Except for the guy masturbating to the scans.. Don't you think this is getting a bit outta hand? Do any of you guys actually fly anywhere? The scanner sends a non-detailed scan to a closed room where a guy may or may not be jerking it, no one actually sees it, you and the viewer never come face-to-face, and it's alot faster than individual pat-downs. what do you mean "non-detailed?" the images released to the public as well as those pilfered from the federal courthouse (with matching normal picture) in orlando are degraded from what the actual scan shows. the guys in the back with < hands > in < trousers >, < jerkin > are looking at crystal clear 3d images of you with a single color (shaded for detail) skin. they basically see you naked but with a thin layer of body paint
how do you know this? show us a pic so we know wtf you're talking about NSFW obviously
By Luz 2010-12-07 13:51:06
Excelior has already posted urls in this thread from the TSA's site to show you what the people looking at the images see. Should take his advice and go check for yourself. Since I know most of you won't, I'll link copies of the pictures from Imageshack here and the link to the page I took them from to prove their authenticity.
TSA site
Seraph.Pjohn
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By Seraph.Pjohn 2010-12-07 13:53:16
its from the TSA site i am sure they didn't pick their best images and notice the faces are blurred
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-12-07 13:54:40
Seraph.Pjohn said: Luz said: One thing real quick. There's a difference between attacks on airlines and school shootings. Once the terrorists have control of an airliner or blow it up, there's nothing you can do to save the lives of the people onboard. Once someone starts shooting up a school, everyone goes inside and locks their doors and the police come to deal with it. Granted he may have hostages, there's still preventive actions that can be taken to control the damage of the attack. When there is thousands of feet between you and the ground, there isn't. Different types of attacks require different precautions. Nah this is wrong if the guy is in the same room and is bent on killing people just like a "terrorist" nothing can be done. But you can prevent him from hurting people in the surrounding areas.
The air force will do the same.
still trying to figure out why those planes weren't shot down when they had ample time to do so.
Ragnarok.Zanno
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By Ragnarok.Zanno 2010-12-07 13:56:30
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-12-07 13:57:10
lol@ the Wii & Wiimote on the floor and the flatpanel tv
By Luz 2010-12-07 13:57:26
Seraph.Pjohn said: Luz said: One thing real quick. There's a difference between attacks on airlines and school shootings. Once the terrorists have control of an airliner or blow it up, there's nothing you can do to save the lives of the people onboard. Once someone starts shooting up a school, everyone goes inside and locks their doors and the police come to deal with it. Granted he may have hostages, there's still preventive actions that can be taken to control the damage of the attack. When there is thousands of feet between you and the ground, there isn't. Different types of attacks require different precautions. Nah this is wrong if the guy is in the same room and is bent on killing people just like a "terrorist" nothing can be done. But you can prevent him from hurting people in the surrounding areas.
The air force will do the same.
If he's bent on killing them they're not hostages, they're corpses. Taking a hostage for something implies you want a way out of the situation or an exchange of lives for something tangible. For a hijacked airplane the target is not to take hostages but to steal the plane for the purposes of killing those onboard and/or people on the ground. Unless he's taking the plane hostage with no intent to kill himself (and every intent to bring the plane back down before it runs out of fuel), in which case the terrorist is an idiot because there are easier ways to get hostages than trying to sneak a weapon on a plane.
Lakshmi.Aurilius
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By Lakshmi.Aurilius 2010-12-07 13:57:38
Because you can't instill fear into people unless something catastrophic happens?
Love those ads by google we get
Gilgamesh.Tweeek
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By Gilgamesh.Tweeek 2010-12-07 13:58:12
it's been proven the pictures of that girl are fake
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-12-07 13:58:17
Luz said: Seraph.Pjohn said: Luz said: One thing real quick. There's a difference between attacks on airlines and school shootings. Once the terrorists have control of an airliner or blow it up, there's nothing you can do to save the lives of the people onboard. Once someone starts shooting up a school, everyone goes inside and locks their doors and the police come to deal with it. Granted he may have hostages, there's still preventive actions that can be taken to control the damage of the attack. When there is thousands of feet between you and the ground, there isn't. Different types of attacks require different precautions. Nah this is wrong if the guy is in the same room and is bent on killing people just like a "terrorist" nothing can be done. But you can prevent him from hurting people in the surrounding areas.
The air force will do the same.
If he's bent on killing them they're not hostages, they're corpses. Taking a hostage for something implies you want a way out of the situation or an exchange of lives for something tangible. For a hijacked airplane the target is not to take hostages but to steal the plane for the purposes of killing those onboard and/or people on the ground. Unless he's taking the plane hostage with no intent to kill himself (and every intent to bring the plane back down before it runs out of fuel), in which case the terrorist is an idiot because there are easier ways to get hostages than trying to sneak a weapon on a plane.
there are enough weapons on a plane to where you don't need to "sneak" one on board...
Gilgamesh.Tweeek
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By Gilgamesh.Tweeek 2010-12-07 14:00:13
Luz said: Excelior has already posted urls in this thread from the TSA's site to show you what the people looking at the images see. Should take his advice and go check for yourself. Since I know most of you won't, I'll link copies of the pictures from Imageshack here and the link to the page I took them from to prove their authenticity.
yea that's one of the type of technology scanners pictures, i've seen those. They don't appear as graphic or vulgar to me still.
The fake one that Zanno showed imo would be inappropriate and if somehow it wasn't fake I would agree with you guys about the images.
Ragnarok.Zanno
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By Ragnarok.Zanno 2010-12-07 14:01:33
Gilgamesh.Tweeek said:
it's been proven the pictures of that girl are fake Gilgamesh.Tweeek said:
how do you know this? show us a pic so we know wtf you're talking about
Ragnarok.Zanno
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By Ragnarok.Zanno 2010-12-07 14:03:43
No one have managed to give even a semi decent answer to this question yet.
Ragnarok.Zanno said: Besides, since only america have the HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE "security" system, what prevents a terrorist from boarding a plane in, italy for an example, hi-jacking it before it lands on american soil and crash that mofo in to whatever building they feel like?
Or does all terrorists board planes in america at all times?
Gilgamesh.Tweeek
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By Gilgamesh.Tweeek 2010-12-07 14:04:14
Ragnarok.Zanno said: Gilgamesh.Tweeek said:
it's been proven the pictures of that girl are fake Gilgamesh.Tweeek said:
how do you know this? show us a pic so we know wtf you're talking about
http://trueslant.com/KashmirHill/2010/01/27/tsa-scanner-porn-hoax-fools-gizmodo-drudge-report/
EDIT:
i can give you about 100 other sources too if you want:
Here you go
The first time we (people on FFXIAH.com) proved these wrong and fake were just simply taking a picture and inverting the pic ourselves.
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Ragnarok.Zanno
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By Ragnarok.Zanno 2010-12-07 14:09:01
Ragnarok.Zanno said: No one have managed to give even a semi decent answer to this question yet.
Ragnarok.Zanno said: Besides, since only america have the HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE "security" system, what prevents a terrorist from boarding a plane in, italy for an example, hi-jacking it before it lands on american soil and crash that mofo in to whatever building they feel like?
Or does all terrorists board planes in america at all times?
I'll be back in ~1 hour. We'll see if any of the paranoid PRO-TSA ppl on here have managed to come up with an answer by then.
Gilgamesh.Tweeek
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By Gilgamesh.Tweeek 2010-12-07 14:10:34
anyway i dont care about this topic anymore, they either use scanners or not. IMO they should just make everyone use the scanners, I see no harm with them. Get rid of the pat downs unless some ***is set off. I would see a problem with them if the above photos I posted were real, but they are not.
The real photos dont scare me or offend me. If New Jersey decides to not use scanners then i dont care, if they decide to use them i dont care. I care more about the people upset about the scanners/pat downs. I'm not necessarily all "for" them, just not against them. I can see them being helpful and don't see the downsides to the scanners is all.
To me there is a difference, people think I'm demanding the scanners be put in place for my security and that i'm scared of threats, i'm not.. i'm just not crying or upset about them being put in place.
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-07 14:17:59
Ragnarok.Zanno said: Gilgamesh.Tweeek said: Phoenix.Huginn said: Phoenix.Kojo said: Except for the guy masturbating to the scans.. Don't you think this is getting a bit outta hand? Do any of you guys actually fly anywhere? The scanner sends a non-detailed scan to a closed room where a guy may or may not be jerking it, no one actually sees it, you and the viewer never come face-to-face, and it's alot faster than individual pat-downs. what do you mean "non-detailed?" the images released to the public as well as those pilfered from the federal courthouse (with matching normal picture) in orlando are degraded from what the actual scan shows. the guys in the back with < hands > in < trousers >, < jerkin > are looking at crystal clear 3d images of you with a single color (shaded for detail) skin. they basically see you naked but with a thin layer of body paint
how do you know this? show us a pic so we know wtf you're talking about NSFW obviouslyshitty link zanno.
the one in there is the fake one.
ops tweek beat me.
i hope you don't think i'm pro-TSA just because I think that image is BS.
"if ye arn't with us yer agaisnt us kind of ideal if you do happen to assume so."
Ragnarok.Zanno
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By Ragnarok.Zanno 2010-12-07 14:25:50
@Vin
Nah, but it would be foolish to go to TSA official website and look for images. If the images really are more detailed than they wanna admit to, they sure as hell aren't going to post them in public on their website.
Still waiting on Tweek & Co to answer my question though.
Carbuncle.Akada
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By Carbuncle.Akada 2010-12-07 14:25:55
I liked our old security protocols. I didn't mind the metal detectors, or the whole taking your shoes off thing. But here is some food for thought (correct me if I am wrong), but since Sept. 11th, how many cases have you heard where a terrorist had a bomb on a plane and wee trying to detonate it (In America)? 3 or 4 maybe, in how many years? So clearly those measures were working pretty good considering how many flights occur daily. Nobody is EVER going to be 100% safe, it's just not going to happen.
There are other forms of security that do not involve those invasive pat downs and those 'naked' body scanners. :/ I really wish other states are going to follow suit soon.
[+]
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-07 14:30:53
Ragnarok.Zanno said: @Vin
Nah, but it would be foolish to go to TSA official website and look for images. If the images really are more detailed than they wanna admit to, they sure as hell aren't going to post them in public on their website.
Still waiting on Tweek & Co to answer my question though. so you are just being paranoid about the provided images then?
what information provided would make you believe they are not giving you legitimate images?
do you need to be standing there and looking at someone being scanned and then have them do a print-out of it for you to consider the images to be legitimate?
what makes the images so unbelievable?
just because they contrast your fervent belief that they are trying to get a pic of your junk and that you will support images that support your notion until those images are disproven, and then you'll continue to post these said images even though they've already been disproven?
how exactly does that work?
this is referring to your post I quoted just a bit ago.
I'm not "for" the pat downs in the least if you've read this thread any previously, but I'm not going to see something through rose-tinted glasses because something fits my ideology.
Ragnarok.Zanno
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By Ragnarok.Zanno 2010-12-07 14:35:45
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Ragnarok.Zanno said: @Vin
Nah, but it would be foolish to go to TSA official website and look for images. If the images really are more detailed than they wanna admit to, they sure as hell aren't going to post them in public on their website.
Still waiting on Tweek & Co to answer my question though. so you are just being paranoid about the provided images then?
what information provided would make you believe they are not giving you legitimate images?
do you need to be standing there and looking at someone being scanned and then have them do a print-out of it for you to consider the images to be legitimate? Yep.
As for proof. It's already been proven on more than one occasion that TSA dont even follow their own policy. With the hate everyone is giving TSA atm, do you really think they would tell you exactly how revealing the pictures are?
Have you ever heard of anyone beeing offered to see their own scan at any point?
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-07 14:37:02
Ragnarok.Zanno said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Ragnarok.Zanno said: @Vin
Nah, but it would be foolish to go to TSA official website and look for images. If the images really are more detailed than they wanna admit to, they sure as hell aren't going to post them in public on their website.
Still waiting on Tweek & Co to answer my question though. so you are just being paranoid about the provided images then?
what information provided would make you believe they are not giving you legitimate images?
do you need to be standing there and looking at someone being scanned and then have them do a print-out of it for you to consider the images to be legitimate? Yep.
As for proof. It's already been proven on more than one occasion that TSA dont even follow their own policy. With the hate everyone is giving TSA atm, do you really think they would tell you exactly how revealing the pictures are?
Have you ever heard of anyone beeing offered to see their own scan at any point? So again, you need to be standing there and get a print-out for your paranoia to subside?
I'm not answering your extra questions because they are just more slants :/
I haven't heard of anyone being offered to see their own scan, but i've not heard of people asking for them either.
I dunno.
I'd ask for mine.
Political/Sensationalist Memorabilia.
[+]
Ragnarok.Zanno
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By Ragnarok.Zanno 2010-12-07 14:38:56
I'm really sick of arguing with you vin. you're arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm not really up for that.
I posted one link to one pic.
not...
Ramuh.Vinvv said: and then you'll continue to post these said images even though they've already been disproven?
And again.
Ragnarok.Zanno said: No one have managed to give even a semi decent answer to this question yet.
Ragnarok.Zanno said: Besides, since only america have the HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE "security" system, what prevents a terrorist from boarding a plane in, italy for an example, hi-jacking it before it lands on american soil and crash that mofo in to whatever building they feel like?
Or does all terrorists board planes in america at all times?
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