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NJ Legislation Bans TSA Scanners + more
By Luz 2010-12-07 18:03:59
Phoenix.Mogue said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Mogue, this is a good case to look into in regards to the Bricker Amendment, and it's loosely similar in regards to state-federal disagreement. Missouri v. Holland basically: Quote: Previously, Congress had passed laws regulating the hunting of migratory waterfowl on the basis that such birds naturally migrated across state and international borders freely, and hence the regulation of the harvest of such birds could not realistically be considered to be province solely of individual states or groups of states. Quote: Congress, disgruntled with this ruling, then empowered the State Department to negotiate with the United Kingdom, which at the time still largely handled the foreign relations of Canada, a treaty pertaining to this issue. The treaty was subsequently ratified and came into force, and required the Federal Government to enact laws regulating the capturing, killing, or selling of the protected migratory birds [1], an obligation that it fulfilled in the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918. The state of Missouri then sued on the basis that the federal government had no authority to negotiate a treaty on this topic. how it's been taken with society: Quote: Many persons saw[1] and still see[2] this ruling as a dangerous implication that Congress or the President could essentially amend the Constitution by the means of treaties with other countries that would abrogate the rights of the people or the States otherwise protected by American law. These concerns came to a head in the 1950s with the Bricker Amendment, a series of proposed amendments which would have placed restrictions on the scope and ratification of treaties and executive agreements entered into by the United States. The Bricker Amendment nearly passed Congress with the required two-thirds majority. More recently, a similar provision has been proposed as the fourth article of the Bill of Federalism, a list of ten proposed amendments drafted by law professor Randy Barnett. Thomas Healy has suggested that Missouri may not even be 'good law' - meaning that more recent decisions could be seen to overturn Missouri, and establish new limits on the Treaty power[3].
Unless I'm missing something, Bricker died as a proposal and the case cited is related to treaties (matters of international law, not a state law in conflict with existing, established federal law).
I'm probably more of an advocate for less government intrusion and expansion of civil liberties than anyone you'll ever meet. And consistently so mind you, not just one of these *** opportunists who spontaneously generate interest in civil liberties when there's a black man in the white house. These same, massively dishonest people sat around in a pool of their own apathy for eight years while these laws were being passed, while W. put two new Justices on the Supreme Court who have buried and cemented any chance of Federal power being overriden by a state law ever again. Where was the outrage then? How *** dare they jump up and down now that its way too late?
imo, the people who push these stories just want to make Obama look responsible for anything perceived as bad in the governement and are working overtime throwing all the ***they can at him, not caring if it sticks or not, and taking maximum advantage of it when it does. So people who blindly follow such Pied Piperism really *** piss me off.
That's all. Isn't that the point of 90% of the political threads on this site? xD
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-07 18:08:51
Lakshmi.Mabrook said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: the word virtually is a great stretch word. I do agree it is one or the other, but just because it's artificially (I stretched this too) made doesn't mean it's still not you naked.
Also, is a picture not you when you click on a camera? Of course it is. the virtually naked part was what i was referring to...not the picture part silly.
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-07 18:29:55
Lakshmi.Mabrook said: Either way though you can't tell for sure until the U.S. government sends the fist of fury to see what these actual images look like or they stop pat downs and everyone will agree a full body scan is acceptable I suppose.
Unless more people are butthurt that way? 8\
Virtually still beats physically nonetheless though. Pretty much.
That's why most people don't really give two ***'s about the scanner, they don't like the pat-downs of course, but still they don't give two shits about the scanner.
that's the general public, not every mom with a vendetta out against the TSA, people just use the scanner as a tool to question the TSA further when the scanner isn't at fault, just whom is operating the scanner IMO.
By Luz 2010-12-07 18:30:35
Lakshmi.Mabrook said: Either way though you can't tell for sure until the U.S. government sends the fist of fury to see what these actual images look like or they stop pat downs and everyone will agree a full body scan is acceptable I suppose.
Unless more people are butthurt that way? 8\
Virtually still beats physically nonetheless though. I'm with Vin. We still have no reason to believe the images I posted earlier from the TSA's site are not what they actually see.
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-07 18:36:11
Luz said: Lakshmi.Mabrook said: Either way though you can't tell for sure until the U.S. government sends the fist of fury to see what these actual images look like or they stop pat downs and everyone will agree a full body scan is acceptable I suppose.
Unless more people are butthurt that way? 8\
Virtually still beats physically nonetheless though. I'm with Vin. We still have no reason to believe the images I posted earlier from the TSA's site are not what they actually see. If this scanner is as bad as it is why don't they make a miniaturized version so every schoolboy can have their dream of X-ray goggles.
:P
Or hell.
If they did that the TSA wouldn't need a scanner anymore
just a whole bunch of people dressed up like this:
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-12-07 18:40:35
I actually received an email back from Mike Doherty today (sent it out this morning before work).
Basically he said the best way to help is pass on the word and sign the petition, which I see people talked about.
Link
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-07 18:42:18
Leviathan.Chaosx said: I actually received an email back from Mike Doherty today (sent it out this morning before work).
Basically he said the best way to help is pass on the word and sign the petition, which I see people talked about.
Link
I won't be signing it because I only disagree with the excessive pat-down procedures, not the scanner part which is what they are hinging it on more.
I hate that politics always come to that.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-12-07 18:46:05
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: I actually received an email back from Mike Doherty today (sent it out this morning before work).
Basically he said the best way to help is pass on the word and sign the petition, which I see people talked about.
Link
I won't be signing it because I only disagree with the excessive pat-down procedures, not the scanner part which is what they are hinging it on more.
I hate that politics always come to that.
But Doherty is a politician so I guess that's how he plays the game. I saw that.
The scanners are a scam imo and many others too. It's not just about whether or not they are naked pictures though.
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-12-07 18:46:35
Wow at some of the ***in this thread...
Just a question for those who oppose the TSA scans/pat downs being removed...
How would you feel about having the same types of screening for every mode of transportation? Busses, boats, trains, even your own car? What about the government telling you what you can and cannot carry in your car? Wouldn't that invasion of privacy bother you?
If you're afraid to fly because terrorists might blow up a plane, then don't fly. At this point, from what I can see, there are far more people who don't wish to keep going through this ***, than there is those who think it's necessary.
Most Americans are quick to forget ***. Sure right after 9/11 there were plenty of people demanding action to prevent this in the future.. but that happened 9 years ago.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-12-07 18:48:27
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Wow at some of the ***in this thread...
Just a question for those who oppose the TSA scans/pat downs being removed...
How would you feel about having the same types of screening for every mode of transportation? Busses, boats, trains, even your own car? What about the government telling you what you can and cannot carry in your car? Wouldn't that invasion of privacy bother you?
If you're afraid to fly because terrorists might blow up a plane, then don't fly. At this point, from what I can see, there are far more people who don't wish to keep going through this ***, than there is those who think it's necessary. I love it. Use their own logic against them.
By Luz 2010-12-07 18:50:26
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Wow at some of the ***in this thread...
Just a question for those who oppose the TSA scans/pat downs being removed...
How would you feel about having the same types of screening for every mode of transportation? Busses, boats, trains, even your own car? What about the government telling you what you can and cannot carry in your car? Wouldn't that invasion of privacy bother you?
If you're afraid to fly because terrorists might blow up a plane, then don't fly. At this point, from what I can see, there are far more people who don't wish to keep going through this ***, than there is those who think it's necessary.
Most Americans are quick to forget ***. Sure right after 9/11 there were plenty of people demanding action to prevent this in the future.. but that happened 9 years ago.
It's a shame you didn't click any of the links posted by the ***-spewers. Like this.
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-07 18:51:30
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Wow at some of the ***in this thread...
Just a question for those who oppose the TSA scans/pat downs being removed...
How would you feel about having the same types of screening for every mode of transportation? Busses, boats, trains, even your own car? What about the government telling you what you can and cannot carry in your car? Wouldn't that invasion of privacy bother you?
If you're afraid to fly because terrorists might blow up a plane, then don't fly. At this point, from what I can see, there are far more people who don't wish to keep going through this ***, than there is those who think it's necessary.
link
link2
here's data to alter what you can currently see.
not that polls shouldn't be taken with a grain of salt mind you.
i honestly think removing technological integration such as this would be a step backwards, improving it would be a good thing to do.
the only two arguments against the scanner is the whole "naked thing" and "radiation", both arguments lack one major component:
factual data.
I think these scanners let you see me naked in detail!
I think these scanners are harmful because of radiation!
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-12-07 18:53:49
Luz said: Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Wow at some of the ***in this thread...
Just a question for those who oppose the TSA scans/pat downs being removed...
How would you feel about having the same types of screening for every mode of transportation? Busses, boats, trains, even your own car? What about the government telling you what you can and cannot carry in your car? Wouldn't that invasion of privacy bother you?
If you're afraid to fly because terrorists might blow up a plane, then don't fly. At this point, from what I can see, there are far more people who don't wish to keep going through this ***, than there is those who think it's necessary.
Most Americans are quick to forget ***. Sure right after 9/11 there were plenty of people demanding action to prevent this in the future.. but that happened 9 years ago.
It's a shame you didn't click any of the links posted by the ***-spewers. Like this.Did you answer those polls? I sure didn't. I know no one in my household answered those polls...
Polls are easy enough to doctor, and they're in no way accurate enough to be considered proof of anything. Just saying. Also, great job at evading the real questions I put fourth. Oh, and I didn't say there are far more, I said from what I can see..
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-07 18:56:14
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Luz said: Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Wow at some of the ***in this thread...
Just a question for those who oppose the TSA scans/pat downs being removed...
How would you feel about having the same types of screening for every mode of transportation? Busses, boats, trains, even your own car? What about the government telling you what you can and cannot carry in your car? Wouldn't that invasion of privacy bother you?
If you're afraid to fly because terrorists might blow up a plane, then don't fly. At this point, from what I can see, there are far more people who don't wish to keep going through this ***, than there is those who think it's necessary.
Most Americans are quick to forget ***. Sure right after 9/11 there were plenty of people demanding action to prevent this in the future.. but that happened 9 years ago.
It's a shame you didn't click any of the links posted by the ***-spewers. Like this.Did you answer those polls? I sure didn't. I know no one in my household answered those polls...
Polls are easy enough to doctor, and they're in no way accurate enough to be considered proof of anything. Just saying. Also, great job at evading the real questions I put fourth. Oh, and I didn't say there are far more, I said from what I can see.. So are naked pictures posed to look like TSA scans.
By Luz 2010-12-07 18:57:35
Yeah, I should have bolded the "from what I can see part". My apologies there.
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-07 19:00:26
Asura.Catastrophe said: Even if the majority of people did support them and pat downs, how couldn't they with the functions filtering news-tertaiment does these days. That's my exact reason that(as people were QQing about earlier) I don't "pick a side", when both sides say ***that I disagree with I make my own side and side with myself.
Colbert is my favorite form of enternews.
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-12-07 19:01:54
I'm not even getting into the pictures or reasoning or taking a stance with either side. I'm simply asking questions, out of my own curiosity.
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-07 19:02:02
Lakshmi.Mabrook said: Luz said: It's a shame you didn't click any of the links posted by the ***-spewers. Like this.That poll is so biased ~_~;
It's funny cuz the first line on google says: Americans aren't crazy... we have two biases fighting it out!
doctored pictures or doctored polls!
who's going to win this battle of the bulge!?!
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: I'm not even getting into the pictures or reasoning or taking a stance with either side. I'm simply asking questions, out of my curiosity. what stance are you taking?
which parts do you agree with/disagree with?
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-12-07 19:02:36
But I like the pat downs; sometimes it's the only physical interaction I have ...
Are you going to take that away from me?
Are you?!
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-12-07 19:04:06
Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: But I like the pat downs; sometimes it's the only physical interaction I have ...
Are you going to take that away from me?
Are you?!
 There's strippers giving lap dances, or hookers that are cheaper for that, or if you're broke, go get pulled over by a cop and act suspicious, they'll cup your balls for you.. I know, from personal experience... -.-
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-12-07 19:04:17
Let's remove any notion that the scanners show naked picture of you and it poses any radiation for a moment.
With this in mind let's cross out these tidbits:
Quote: * Makes certain body searches third degree crime of sexual assault under certain circumstances. View as PDF.
* Prohibits use of body imaging scanners to screen passengers and airline crew members. View as PDF.
* Specifies that certain images generated by body scans violate State statutes, prohibiting invasion of privacy, pornography, and endangerment of child welfare under certain circumstances. View as PDF.
Do you still think these things shouldn't be done?
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-12-07 19:07:58
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: go get pulled over by a cop and act suspicious, they'll cup your balls for you.. I know, from personal experience... -.- Why'd you cup the guy's balls?
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-12-07 19:08:52
Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Valefor.Slipispsycho said: go get pulled over by a cop and act suspicious, they'll cup your balls for you.. I know, from personal experience... -.- Why'd you cup the guy's balls? I'm not a cop <_<
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-07 19:09:38
Leviathan.Chaosx said: Let's remove any notion that the scanners show naked picture of you and it poses any radiation for a moment.
With this in mind let's cross out these tidbits:
Quote: * Makes certain body searches third degree crime of sexual assault under certain circumstances. View as PDF.
* Prohibits use of body imaging scanners to screen passengers and airline crew members. View as PDF.
* Specifies that certain images generated by body scans violate State statutes, prohibiting invasion of privacy, pornography, and endangerment of child welfare under certain circumstances. View as PDF.
Do you still think these things shouldn't be done?
Where did you take this information from?
It's worded weird as hell.
The first part that's not crossed out makes my brain hurt how it's worded.
Without using your words I'll say.
I think the TSA's policies need to be under investigation.
The pat-downs should be there to stay IMO, but I think they need to scrutinize the ones doing the pat downs more and make them accountable for their actions.
Welp, might post on this later.
I accidentally stayed over for work :X
cya :D
By Luz 2010-12-07 19:10:11
Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Valefor.Slipispsycho said: go get pulled over by a cop and act suspicious, they'll cup your balls for you.. I know, from personal experience... -.- Why'd you cup the guy's balls? "To Protect and Serve"
Checking for testicular cancer?
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