Hundred Knives

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/13872/lower-tp-return-85-footwork/2/#850191

Kine did the math, and poise shoes footwork still gets beaten out. h2h is still top.

Spharai 85 + Asuran Fists > OA2-3 Ursine Claws + Footwork + TK.
Spharai 85 are just..... broken.... DMG+40 when Fire Taipangs +1 are only +26, and, on top of that, ATK +30.

full relics are still tops for a reason..and nobody ever said, even at the height of footwork build, they beat the 80 spharai.. they were said to be close to on par....

so obviously spharai win....

did you even read the first page? the attack rate dnc can pull and the job abilities it has makes one hell of a tp building machine.

5 hit build for ws, 20 tp per hit, 1 hit per 3 seconds - sam

multiple ways to build tp, 5 tp per hit, 3 hits every 1 second - dnc

do the math, dnc can ws ALOT more than sam can, which is why it can out parse other DD's.

oops quoted the wrong post but you get my point

I'm sorry did YOU read any of my posts...why is dnc getting OaT in your formula, but Sam's OaT high dmg GK not even considered? .....ya.... cuz the OaT GK can be 5 hit built as well..

and if you consider sam at cap + hasso its not 3s per swing with sam, its more like 2s

this

and no im not including OAT daggers, i generally dont even care for dnc using OAT.

and lets say sam does hit one every 2s, thats 40tp, where dnc builds 45 tp in 2 seconds

lol I'm sorry but 45 tp in 2s? thats using OaT at max proc...lets say you swing 2x per round, so thats what... 11 tp per round if you hit twice.. 16 if you hit 3 times lets say...so you mean to tell me you're gonna get off nearly 3 attack rounds in 2s? lol

yes that's precisely why i made the topic to begin with. dnc attacks bloody fast. also if oat procs, double attack doesn't, the combination of the 2 brings the total chance of a 2nd swing roughly 20% higher than the base double attack anyways.

"bloody fast" sounds awful accurate as to an actual attack rate lol... and you do realize the more DW you stack, your tp build goes down because its simple delay reduc, ya? its like Martial Arts+ in that right

which gives me 5 tp, while you said dnc gets 6, i already took that into consideration.

i dont know if its actually 6, was simply giving the high end as an example of how I think 2.5 attack arounds in 2s is literally impossible because you said 45 tp in 2s...

this is coming from the person that thinks dnc should be using joytoy. while you say you love dnc, you simply just dont give it the credit it deserves.

Are we seriously debating SAM vs DNC in terms of damage? Because a top geared DNC can never even touch an equally geared SAM.

im shure somewhere in the world there is a perfect geared sam and a perfect geared dancer. Would save a lot of agrument if these two just got together and ran a parser. then posted the end result. Afterall the internet is not a place you just dump things on.

10% haste from hasso would definitely raise sam up to 80% total if they have haste samba too...

However, you fail to understand that dnc can easily get... 45% dual wield. I'd have to do the math to be absolutely certain (in fact i will below) but I'm 99.9% sure -45% delay before haste is better than an additional 10% haste.


450 delay GK:
450 x 0.2 = 90 delay

We've established DNC has 67.98 delay when hasted properly.

So yea, they still hit quite faster. It's like 25% faster.
Sam hits once every 1.5 seconds while dance hits an average of 3.3 times every 1.133 seconds WITHOUT an OAT weapon while using saber dance.

w/o an OAT weapon, dnc will hit 175 times in a minute.
w/o an OAT weapon, sam will hit 40 times in a minute.

If sam gains 20 tp per hit, thats 800 tp.
If dnc gains 5 tp per hit, thats 875 tp.
They both can generate TP with job abilities also. Dnc can just do it much faster.

Now lets say the sam manages to hit for 200 damage each swing, thats 40 x 200 = 8000 damage

If the dnc hits for 50 per swing average they will have 175 x 50 = 8750 damage, and its VERY easy for a dnc to hit 60+ per swing on a mob weak to piercing. A good one will average over 70 a hit nowdays. (60 avg = 10,500 damage, 70 avg = 12,250)

Idk if you've seen a good dnc/war ws lately, but they definitely can keep up with a sam in WS numbers.

Theoretical numbers are theoretical.

It'd get sidetracked when in the heat of competition they break out into a sweaty passionate lovefest.

And that's how SAM/DNC was born.

What is theoretical about any of that? lol

It's all solid math. The only thing you could consider slightly theoretical is the damage averages. In that case, sam won't average 200 a swing. I was being VERY generous there, it'd likely be 160'ish.

People wont stop arguing for sam no matter wat numbers u throw at them until u show em a solid parse.
I had same problem with bst+pet arguement.
Even tho i was parsing #1 in my abyssea parties and another bst friend was parsing #1 in his einherjar and limbus.
No one is gonna believe u until u post the parse and even then there gonna say things like "those guys u were partying with must be trash"

But theres an upside. Its actually a bad thing if u definatively prove dnc is the newkings of DD. All it will do is flood ur class with bandwagoneer's wich in turn raises the prices of your gear.

So be glad that people are stubborn and just have fun kickin azz with ur new power.

And DNC won't average 60 DMG/hit.

Wait, SAMs damage is melee only? And both jobs never stop to use JA/WS?

As a BST myself, as well as a BLU. So I know what it feels like to be considered a lesser DD. I will say that BST's damage has improved quite well, as well as BLU's. And sure, a properly geared, merited, and skilled BST along with their pet can now do quite respectable damage. In fact, I'm one of the leaders of a BST LS on my server. But, the sad truth is, an equally geared SAM, MNK, or any other respected DD will still eat the other DDs alive if done correctly.

I'm not talking a top geared BST vs a full Pearl SAM. If you're gonna put a top geared DNC vs other well respected jobs and say you came first in the parse, that's picking and choosing your good parses. I better see that SAM in full Usu, or Unkai, or whatever is considered equally geared to what the job in question is wearing.

Full AF3+2 and dusk gloves +1 and bullwhip belt on the DNC? Let's see a SAM in the best possible set too, then. See how well that goes.

DNC will never be a bandwagon job because too many guys are too insecure with themselves to even play the job. They have to solo it by themselves for a sub job. I know some people that wont even TOUCH dnc because it's too gay... get over yourself.

Oh and bst is beast. I'm just saying. I just dont' know if I could take the time to level it.

Your text to link here...

@Virtuosus Its not a sad truth its a sad opinion.

Here is a bst with far from perfect gear and eating the wrong food losing to a perfect geared sam and war. Placing 3rd in an einherjar parse. He lost by a surprisingly small amount.
He later went back with some gear improvments (still not the best he can get) and a better food choice and took #1.
I am working on getting that parse posted.

P.S.

Wth does being a bst linkshell leader have to do with it? Does that like give u some sort of "i know everything about bst" scout badge?
Well I am a pet linkshell leader so i guess that means i know everything about bst pup smn and sometimes drg lol
Trumped!

Moral of the story: good players on weaker (DPSwise) jobs > bad players on strong (DPSwise) jobs.

What else is new? Nobody with half a brain cares about competitive parsing, and for good reason.

Also, no mention of your support.

Nothing, I just wanted to make sure you knew I wasn't prejudice against BST when I posted that comment about it not being able to outdamage any other respected DD in equal gear.


Nail on head.

This is what I find utterly hilarious about this... 1)-45% DW WILL LOWER TP/swing... that doesn't seem to be in your equation..You'd have to compensate with quite a decent bit of STP on dnc.
2) I absolute LOVE the fact that you said dnc's dmg is 60/swing "on a mob weak to piercing" but gave sam dmg based on no weapon class bonus... wtf is that.....
3) ya...lets compare reverse flourish to meditate....sure lulz you have to stop meleeing to step, and you have to not miss a single step to even compare to meditate's boost to DPS...


edit2: lol I agree with Trist...I hate the homophobes who won't touch dnc cuz its "too gay"...wtfe lol I wear subligars if the stats are good (hi enkidu's for blu til i get AF3+1)

edit3: point 4) "Sam hits once every 1.5 seconds while dance hits an average of 3.3 times every 1.133 seconds WITHOUT an OAT weapon while using saber dance." I love how you basically expect DA to proc so damn often.. I know saber dance is nice, but its not 100% lol