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 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-04-19 18:40:08
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Cerberus.Kengo said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Cerberus.Kengo said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
I don't recommend taric, he's a pretty bad support/ap. Alistar is much better! (and free + skin)

Are you joking? You have to be.

Well how do you want to play him? Full support? He's alright as a full support but other champions have more/stronger utility then him.

AP mid? That could work but he'll have one hell of a time farming.
AP bottom? Hope you dominate the lane because you are splitting a lane farm in 2.

What other support has more utility then Taric? Explain it to me. He has the second best single target stun in the game, next to Sion's. The stun no longer is distanced based to duration, how it use to be. It has a low cooldown, and low mana cost.

Melee close by, but not last hitting, minions to reduce the cooldown on your heal, which scales great into mid and late game.

Let's not forget Shatter is by far one of the best early game buffs you can give to your AD Carry, as long as YOU DON'T USE IT UNLESS YOU'RE BURSTING DOWN AN ENEMY CHAMPION. I can't stand it when players spam Shatter when they're suppose to keep it up to help reduce the harass your carry takes.

Granted, Sona's ULT is still better for initiation, Taric's ULT used with Shurelya's Reverie, can completely shutdown a heavy carry in a team fight, and in general. Shurelya's Reverie, ULT, Dazzle, then use Shatter if needed, will give your team so much mobility and burst damage it's not even funny.

If you want to play AP with Taric, more power to you. He has no problems farming, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about. I've even had great success in jungling with him back before his change and the jungle change. It's all in knowing how to Rune and setup your Masteries for the roll, and champion.

Don't knock Taric because he's not as brainless to play as Sona, or another support champion.

"Look at me guys! All I have to do is mash QWE. I'm so good at playing Sona!"

"Oh, I'm Alistar, I don't know how to Headbutt+Pulv, so I'll just keep pushing the enemy champ to safety, ok guys?"

Tell me what champion you like to play a lot so I can tell other players he sucks because I don't know anything about him.
slow the roll.

instant carry killer pretty much has to go to skarner.
 Cerberus.Kengo
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By Cerberus.Kengo 2012-04-19 18:51:22
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Oh, don't get me wrong, Skarner is amazing. He's the only jungler I buy Shurelya's Reverie on if we don't have a strong initiator. I was making my point in the roll of a support.
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-04-19 19:05:54
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I realize this, but im not going to type up a point for point reason why taric isn't as good as you say point for point.

Especially when you say things like "Don't knock Taric because he's not as brainless to play as Sona, or another support champion." and then say ""Oh, I'm Alistar, I don't know how to Headbutt+Pulv, so I'll just keep pushing the enemy champ to safety, ok guys?""

Each champ has a slightly different role.

Tarics good, but it depends on team comp, skill, and lane partner and a number of other factors.
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By Cerberus.Kengo 2012-04-19 19:22:23
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Yes of course, like any champion.

Maybe I was trying to point out that the argument that X champion is bad and there are better champions to fulfill X roll without any sort of reasoning. I can't stand that kind of mindset. If someone comes up to you and says, "Your X sports teams is going to do terrible this year" without any research of the team, player roster, schedule, etc.

Does that make sense?

I'm all for having a valid argument, it's what drives players to play better or think, "Hey, maybe I was wrong". Not just blurt out, "This champion is dumb because I played him once along time ago".
 Asura.Lolserj
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By Asura.Lolserj 2012-04-19 19:34:04
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I found my new favorite jungler

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 Cerberus.Kengo
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By Cerberus.Kengo 2012-04-19 20:08:21
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Cerberus.Kengo said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Cerberus.Kengo said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
I don't recommend taric, he's a pretty bad support/ap. Alistar is much better! (and free + skin)

Are you joking? You have to be.

Well how do you want to play him? Full support? He's alright as a full support but other champions have more/stronger utility then him.

AP mid? That could work but he'll have one hell of a time farming.
AP bottom? Hope you dominate the lane because you are splitting a lane farm in 2.

What other support has more utility then Taric? Explain it to me. He has the second best single target stun in the game, next to Sion's. The stun no longer is distanced based to duration, how it use to be. It has a low cooldown, and low mana cost.

Melee close by, but not last hitting, minions to reduce the cooldown on your heal, which scales great into mid and late game.

Let's not forget Shatter is by far one of the best early game buffs you can give to your AD Carry, as long as YOU DON'T USE IT UNLESS YOU'RE BURSTING DOWN AN ENEMY CHAMPION. I can't stand it when players spam Shatter when they're suppose to keep it up to help reduce the harass your carry takes.

Granted, Sona's ULT is still better for initiation, Taric's ULT used with Shurelya's Reverie, can completely shutdown a heavy carry in a team fight, and in general. Shurelya's Reverie, ULT, Dazzle, then use Shatter if needed, will give your team so much mobility and burst damage it's not even funny.

If you want to play AP with Taric, more power to you. He has no problems farming, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about. I've even had great success in jungling with him back before his change and the jungle change. It's all in knowing how to Rune and setup your Masteries for the roll, and champion.

Don't knock Taric because he's not as brainless to play as Sona, or another support champion.

"Look at me guys! All I have to do is mash QWE. I'm so good at playing Sona!"

"Oh, I'm Alistar, I don't know how to Headbutt+Pulv, so I'll just keep pushing the enemy champ to safety, ok guys?"

Tell me what champion you like to play a lot so I can tell other players he sucks because I don't know anything about him.

I'm not knocking down taric, he has his utility. It's just that every other support minus Karma is MORE useful

Single target stun - it's cool but reduced by tenacity and its single target.

Heal - His heal is lackluster compared to Soraka and overtime Alistar/Sona heal more

Shatter - The armor is cool, the - armor is also cool (But you lose armor bonus)

Ult - It's nice but for an ult it lacks in utility.


Soraka - Strong heal, Global Heal, Heal gives a crapton armor, can give mana back and lowcool down silence targeted silence, passive gives MR.

Alistar - AoE heal, AoE knockairborn (Not reduced by tenacity), single target knock back (Not reduced by tenacity), Ult makes him a perfect initiator/disruptor

Sona - AoE heal, AoE buffs, AoE fairly strong damage, AoE Stun

Janna - AoE knockairborn, Mega single target slow, +50 AD + Shield buff, AoE heal/knockback/slow, +MS global passive

Blitz - Grab, Knockairborn, AoE silence, does a fair amount of damage, passive makes him tankier



So yes, Taric is lackluster as a support while not being horrible. he is better than Karma and karma can still do fairly well.


I'm going to correct some of your misinformation about some of these champions and how they work.

Points on Soraka, as she is STILL the best support in the game. Her only real weakness is her survivability and her main heal suffers from a heafty cooldown. That can be improved with the right items.

Alistar suffers from severe mana issues. His heal doesn't scale well, and it will destroy, again, your mana pool quickly. He is only there for utility, much like Blitzcrank, who also suffers from mana issues. The issues with Blitz can be remedied with a Tear of the Goddess, which helps his passive. Alistar, not much you can but save Headbutt Pulv for real times where you'll need it. Alistar has the power of initiation with his ultimate. That's a huge pro.

All of your information on Sona is incorrect. Her abilities are not AoE, her passive auras are, however. Her Q and W only effect two targets, and E gives a small speed increase. Her ultimate is also not AoE, it's conal. Sona suffers from no real drawbacks other then if she gets caught out of place, she's dead.

Information on Janna is wrong as well. Her tornado is, also, not AoE, it's directional. Her slow is effected by tenacity, which you failed to mention, and her ultimate does not slow, just a knockback and AoE heal to allied champions. (This was just nerfed fyi).
 Ramuh.Urial
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By Ramuh.Urial 2012-04-19 20:26:57
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Asura.Lolserj said: »
I found my new favorite jungler

Hi I'm Ahri.
I'm a support in this team :/
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 Pandemonium.Anookulchandra
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By Pandemonium.Anookulchandra 2012-04-19 20:27:54
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Ramuh.Urial said: »
Asura.Lolserj said: »
I found my new favorite jungler

Hi I'm Ahri.
I'm a support in this team :/

Your fail is support... GET TARIC
 Cerberus.Kengo
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By Cerberus.Kengo 2012-04-19 20:38:40
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Pandemonium.Anookulchandra said: »

Your fail is support... GET TARIC

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By volkom 2012-04-19 21:15:14
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Cerberus.Kengo said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Cerberus.Kengo said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Cerberus.Kengo said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
I don't recommend taric, he's a pretty bad support/ap. Alistar is much better! (and free + skin)

Are you joking? You have to be.

Well how do you want to play him? Full support? He's alright as a full support but other champions have more/stronger utility then him.

AP mid? That could work but he'll have one hell of a time farming.
AP bottom? Hope you dominate the lane because you are splitting a lane farm in 2.

What other support has more utility then Taric? Explain it to me. He has the second best single target stun in the game, next to Sion's. The stun no longer is distanced based to duration, how it use to be. It has a low cooldown, and low mana cost.

Melee close by, but not last hitting, minions to reduce the cooldown on your heal, which scales great into mid and late game.

Let's not forget Shatter is by far one of the best early game buffs you can give to your AD Carry, as long as YOU DON'T USE IT UNLESS YOU'RE BURSTING DOWN AN ENEMY CHAMPION. I can't stand it when players spam Shatter when they're suppose to keep it up to help reduce the harass your carry takes.

Granted, Sona's ULT is still better for initiation, Taric's ULT used with Shurelya's Reverie, can completely shutdown a heavy carry in a team fight, and in general. Shurelya's Reverie, ULT, Dazzle, then use Shatter if needed, will give your team so much mobility and burst damage it's not even funny.

If you want to play AP with Taric, more power to you. He has no problems farming, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about. I've even had great success in jungling with him back before his change and the jungle change. It's all in knowing how to Rune and setup your Masteries for the roll, and champion.

Don't knock Taric because he's not as brainless to play as Sona, or another support champion.

"Look at me guys! All I have to do is mash QWE. I'm so good at playing Sona!"

"Oh, I'm Alistar, I don't know how to Headbutt+Pulv, so I'll just keep pushing the enemy champ to safety, ok guys?"

Tell me what champion you like to play a lot so I can tell other players he sucks because I don't know anything about him.

I'm not knocking down taric, he has his utility. It's just that every other support minus Karma is MORE useful

Single target stun - it's cool but reduced by tenacity and its single target.

Heal - His heal is lackluster compared to Soraka and overtime Alistar/Sona heal more

Shatter - The armor is cool, the - armor is also cool (But you lose armor bonus)

Ult - It's nice but for an ult it lacks in utility.


Soraka - Strong heal, Global Heal, Heal gives a crapton armor, can give mana back and lowcool down silence targeted silence, passive gives MR.

Alistar - AoE heal, AoE knockairborn (Not reduced by tenacity), single target knock back (Not reduced by tenacity), Ult makes him a perfect initiator/disruptor

Sona - AoE heal, AoE buffs, AoE fairly strong damage, AoE Stun

Janna - AoE knockairborn, Mega single target slow, +50 AD + Shield buff, AoE heal/knockback/slow, +MS global passive

Blitz - Grab, Knockairborn, AoE silence, does a fair amount of damage, passive makes him tankier



I'm going to correct some of your misinformation about some of these champions and how they work.

Points on Soraka, as she is STILL the best support in the game. Her only real weakness is her survivability and her main heal suffers from a heafty cooldown. That can be improved with the right items.

Alistar suffers from severe mana issues. His heal doesn't scale well, and it will destroy, again, your mana pool quickly. He is only there for utility, much like Blitzcrank, who also suffers from mana issues. The issues with Blitz can be remedied with a Tear of the Goddess, which helps his passive. Alistar, not much you can but save Headbutt Pulv for real times where you'll need it. Alistar has the power of initiation with his ultimate. That's a huge pro.

All of your information on Sona is incorrect. Her abilities are not AoE, her passive auras are, however. Her Q and W only effect two targets, and E gives a small speed increase. Her ultimate is also not AoE, it's conal. Sona suffers from no real drawbacks other then if she gets caught out of place, she's dead.

Information on Janna is wrong as well. Her tornado is, also, not AoE, it's directional. Her slow is effected by tenacity, which you failed to mention, and her ultimate does not slow, just a knockback and AoE heal to allied champions. (This was just nerfed fyi).


should pick the support that compliments the range carry you're support on bot
 Odin.Minefield
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By Odin.Minefield 2012-04-19 21:23:26
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Holy crap quote train.

Anywho nobody answered my question earlier, why shop borked and I get error with plenty of money D: ?
 Asura.Lolserj
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By Asura.Lolserj 2012-04-19 21:24:04
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volkom said: »
Cerberus.Kengo said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Cerberus.Kengo said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Cerberus.Kengo said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
I don't recommend taric, he's a pretty bad support/ap. Alistar is much better! (and free + skin)

Are you joking? You have to be.

Well how do you want to play him? Full support? He's alright as a full support but other champions have more/stronger utility then him.

AP mid? That could work but he'll have one hell of a time farming.
AP bottom? Hope you dominate the lane because you are splitting a lane farm in 2.

What other support has more utility then Taric? Explain it to me. He has the second best single target stun in the game, next to Sion's. The stun no longer is distanced based to duration, how it use to be. It has a low cooldown, and low mana cost.

Melee close by, but not last hitting, minions to reduce the cooldown on your heal, which scales great into mid and late game.

Let's not forget Shatter is by far one of the best early game buffs you can give to your AD Carry, as long as YOU DON'T USE IT UNLESS YOU'RE BURSTING DOWN AN ENEMY CHAMPION. I can't stand it when players spam Shatter when they're suppose to keep it up to help reduce the harass your carry takes.

Granted, Sona's ULT is still better for initiation, Taric's ULT used with Shurelya's Reverie, can completely shutdown a heavy carry in a team fight, and in general. Shurelya's Reverie, ULT, Dazzle, then use Shatter if needed, will give your team so much mobility and burst damage it's not even funny.

If you want to play AP with Taric, more power to you. He has no problems farming, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about. I've even had great success in jungling with him back before his change and the jungle change. It's all in knowing how to Rune and setup your Masteries for the roll, and champion.

Don't knock Taric because he's not as brainless to play as Sona, or another support champion.

"Look at me guys! All I have to do is mash QWE. I'm so good at playing Sona!"

"Oh, I'm Alistar, I don't know how to Headbutt+Pulv, so I'll just keep pushing the enemy champ to safety, ok guys?"

Tell me what champion you like to play a lot so I can tell other players he sucks because I don't know anything about him.

I'm not knocking down taric, he has his utility. It's just that every other support minus Karma is MORE useful

Single target stun - it's cool but reduced by tenacity and its single target.

Heal - His heal is lackluster compared to Soraka and overtime Alistar/Sona heal more

Shatter - The armor is cool, the - armor is also cool (But you lose armor bonus)

Ult - It's nice but for an ult it lacks in utility.


Soraka - Strong heal, Global Heal, Heal gives a crapton armor, can give mana back and lowcool down silence targeted silence, passive gives MR.

Alistar - AoE heal, AoE knockairborn (Not reduced by tenacity), single target knock back (Not reduced by tenacity), Ult makes him a perfect initiator/disruptor

Sona - AoE heal, AoE buffs, AoE fairly strong damage, AoE Stun

Janna - AoE knockairborn, Mega single target slow, +50 AD + Shield buff, AoE heal/knockback/slow, +MS global passive

Blitz - Grab, Knockairborn, AoE silence, does a fair amount of damage, passive makes him tankier



I'm going to correct some of your misinformation about some of these champions and how they work.

Points on Soraka, as she is STILL the best support in the game. Her only real weakness is her survivability and her main heal suffers from a heafty cooldown. That can be improved with the right items.

Alistar suffers from severe mana issues. His heal doesn't scale well, and it will destroy, again, your mana pool quickly. He is only there for utility, much like Blitzcrank, who also suffers from mana issues. The issues with Blitz can be remedied with a Tear of the Goddess, which helps his passive. Alistar, not much you can but save Headbutt Pulv for real times where you'll need it. Alistar has the power of initiation with his ultimate. That's a huge pro.

All of your information on Sona is incorrect. Her abilities are not AoE, her passive auras are, however. Her Q and W only effect two targets, and E gives a small speed increase. Her ultimate is also not AoE, it's conal. Sona suffers from no real drawbacks other then if she gets caught out of place, she's dead.

Information on Janna is wrong as well. Her tornado is, also, not AoE, it's directional. Her slow is effected by tenacity, which you failed to mention, and her ultimate does not slow, just a knockback and AoE heal to allied champions. (This was just nerfed fyi).


should pick the support that compliments the range carry you're support on bot

i wouldnt even say compliment the range carry

even a support that helps counter the other teams carry (I love playing taric when the other team has a vayne)

If you can compliment the carry its awesome and its also awesome when you counter the other team as well
 Odin.Minefield
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By Odin.Minefield 2012-04-19 21:32:21
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I guess nobody knows :(
 
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 Pandemonium.Anookulchandra
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By Pandemonium.Anookulchandra 2012-04-19 22:45:34
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Right, I forgot about Janna's ult nerf, it's the only place where I made a mistake. Her slow is affected by tenacity, but its a 4 seconds slow.

Alistar has no mana issues unless you spam your skill like a madman for some reason, you have runes/masteries that can help if thats the case, same thing for blitz also they should both start with meki which gives mana regen. Tear is not a support item.
Soraka isn't the best support, Janna is.

AoE is area of effect, it can hit multiple targets so yes, Janna's q and Sona's skills are AoE.

Jana's q is closer to Conal that it is area effect. Also Jana is not the best support... So I guess the word Conal should be dismissed from now on and it's all AOE. Hey guys my Jana does aoe tornado. So people behind me got hit when I shot it infront of me in a straight line.... o.o
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By Cerberus.Kengo 2012-04-19 22:56:05
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I think I made him mad.

So, Blitz and Alistar should both start with a Meki Pendant, but NOT build Tear of the Goddess......

What are you gonna build it into? You're gonna waste the gold and sell it back instead of starting with Faerie Charm and Wards? Then building the Faerie Charm into your first Gold/10, a Philosopher's Stone?

If you say Chalice of Harmony, you should probably stop talking about support champions here.

I'm not trying to sound like a complete ***, but you have no idea what you're talking about.
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 Odin.Minefield
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By Odin.Minefield 2012-04-19 23:05:44
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NVM ANSWERED IT MYSELF
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 Asura.Lolserj
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By Asura.Lolserj 2012-04-19 23:06:16
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Cerberus.Kengo said: »
I think I made him mad.

So, Blitz and Alistar should both start with a Meki Pendant, but NOT build Tear of the Goddess......

What are you gonna build it into? You're gonna waste the gold and sell it back instead of starting with Faerie Charm and Wards? Then building the Faerie Charm into your first Gold/10, a Philosopher's Stone?

If you say Chalice of Harmony, you should probably stop talking about support champions here.

I'm not trying to sound like a complete ***, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

i start faerie/4wards/pot on all supports most of the time :|
 
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 Asura.Lolserj
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By Asura.Lolserj 2012-04-19 23:28:57
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So from now on in Ranked I'm going to ignore all the "I call X" and pick whoever I want and once we get into game if they give any ***i'll just be like "Oh sorry the chat was bugged" >.>
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By Fairy.Spence 2012-04-19 23:47:09
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They nerfed the heal on Janna's ult? I always felt it was rather lackluster to begin with.
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 Odin.Minefield
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By Odin.Minefield 2012-04-20 01:23:35
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Wicked Lulu so hot <3

kittiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiies
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 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-04-20 01:35:08
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Fairy.Spence said: »
They nerfed the heal on Janna's ult? I always felt it was rather lackluster to begin with.
a good placement of the knockback though can win a teamfight
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By Pandemonium.Anookulchandra 2012-04-20 01:41:14
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Odin.Minefield said: »
Wicked Lulu so hot <3

kittiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiies

Yep.. nerf incoming soon.

Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
I meant Faerie charm not meki. I don't know what I'm talking about but I'm ranked gold playing 90% of the time ranged AD or Support

it's 1am I'm going to bed soon and no I'm not mad at all O.o

Did you hear this gold player in LoL found out that moves that hit a straight line, or conal is now AOE.... so that means the move Serket has called "Venom Breath" was classified wrong. It's an AOEas it hits players in wide area in front of him. God.. glad to see the gold ELO players know all the stuff.
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By Pandemonium.Anookulchandra 2012-04-20 01:42:01
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Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Fairy.Spence said: »
They nerfed the heal on Janna's ult? I always felt it was rather lackluster to begin with.
a good placement of the knockback though can win a teamfight

Fight reset button when ww suppresses your squishy AD
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By Fairy.Spence 2012-04-20 01:43:36
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Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Fairy.Spence said: »
They nerfed the heal on Janna's ult? I always felt it was rather lackluster to begin with.
a good placement of the knockback though can win a teamfight

No, I know. I love a good Janna. The heal was negligible though. You rarely rarely rarely used it to heal. Only to push enemy champs away.
 Pandemonium.Anookulchandra
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By Pandemonium.Anookulchandra 2012-04-20 01:46:28
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Fairy.Spence said: »
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Fairy.Spence said: »
They nerfed the heal on Janna's ult? I always felt it was rather lackluster to begin with.
a good placement of the knockback though can win a teamfight

No, I know. A love a good Janna. The heal was negligible though. You rarely rarely rarely used it to heal. Only to push enemy champs away.

I'd agree with that... on rare occurrences when I see a karthas ult coming I'll shield them and pop an ult on some one when they are really low.
 Bahamut.Serj
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Game: FFXI
user: Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2012-04-20 01:46:32
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Fairy.Spence said: »
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Fairy.Spence said: »
They nerfed the heal on Janna's ult? I always felt it was rather lackluster to begin with.
a good placement of the knockback though can win a teamfight

No, I know. A love a good Janna. The heal was negligible though. You rarely rarely rarely used it to heal. Only to push enemy champs away.

Nerfed the range on the knockback and lowered mana costs. Didn't touch heal.
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