Nezea,
Tarutaru SCH75/RDM37 has the following stats, plus the gear you listed to attain a 1700+ Blizzard IV.
132 INT Max = 77 Base, 36 Gear, 7 Food, 5 Merits, 7 Lv5 Stormsurge.
MAB = 36 Gear, 20 Red Mage Sub.
10% Increase for Ice Weather, Forced with Obi.
20% Increase for Ebullience.
15% HQ Staff Increase.
And, 10% Critical Hit Bonus.
I was able to nuke Blizzard IV for 1810 Damage. (1508 without Critical hit.)
BLM/RDM has 2 INT higher. Minus the 7 INT Stormsurge bonus.
To keep things on a level plane, a BLM wearing the same gear, effectively making it gimp would achieve a 1648 Blizzard IV with the 10% Day Bonus but without Critical Hit damage. 1812 with critical hit.
This is not counting Sorc Ring (INT -5, MAB +10) possibility which would place BLM/RDM numbers at 1711 / 1882 with Critical Hit.
Monster Target is Ebony Pudding with no Burn.
Even with best gear, Ebullience will only make a SCH catch up with a BLM wearing the same gear.
Edit: My numbers are possibly off by 1 INT in the damage calculation since I didn't factor in where your 1700+ Crit hit bonus came from.
SCH Update: Getting Riped Off ???
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SCH update: Getting riped off ???
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Quote: level 80 BLM/RDM is still amazing. I just dislike how badly SCH is underestimated. Pretty much this. Really tired of all the ignorant people popping up all over the place and talking like SCH doesn't even compare to BLM or WHM. Edit: @Princemercury - my nuke had neither day bonus nor critical hit. I'd be doing well over 2k if I had both of those things.
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What I'm saying is, if a SCH is allowed to use whatever they have at their disposal, why is a BLM not?
As for the "regarding burn" statement; If I'm nuking something worth a damn, I like burn being on there. Do most other BLM's use it? Hell no. Do I use it? Damn straight. If I can knock off a few INT and do some DoT along with higher, less resisted nukes.. I'm sure as hell going to do it. Quote: Food: Cream puff. Ebullience was used. Gear: Aquilo's Staff Bugard Strap +1 Phantom Tathlum Selenian Cap (4INT + 2 MAB) Uggalepih Pendant Moldavite Earring Novio Earring Royal Redingote (5% Fast Cast + 4 MAB) Goliard Cuffs Snow Ring Tamas Ring Gleeman's Cape Hyorin Obi Tatsumaki Sitagoromo (4 MAB + 4 MACC) Yigit Crackows I'm not pretending to know for sure, but I'm guessing that's pretty much the best a SCH is going to get, damagewise. Yet you're doing a whole 50'ish damage more than me, without food and my gear is still in the "ok" range. Quote: @Hitetsu well because those stratagems (rapture and ebull) are what make the sch the sch... ok..lets just go ahead and compare a job with no native MAB traits and like a billion less skill than a blm in nukes...one sided much? lol Giving a RDM +30% damage, they'd be able to go toe-to-toe with unmerited BLM's. Gilgamesh.Nezea said: Edit: @Princemercury - my nuke had neither day bonus nor critical hit. I'd be doing well over 2k if I had both of those things. I just don't see the numbers adding up for a Taru SCH/RDM to reach 1755 without critical bonus. Maybe you can do a calculation for me since I'm obviously in error. Pandemonium.Andross said: and I love how BLM's always make their personal experience mean everything in their evidence of why BLM nukes better, or just achieving better damage on one nuke means they "out nuke". PUP has both BLM and SCH beat as far as e-peen nukes go, last I checked. It's not a matter of out damaging nuke by nuke; a SCH just has tons of endurance. With Convert, Sublimation, Dark Arts and Parsimony it's not even a contest; SCH is going to get out much, much more nukes then a BLM, and thanks to increased skill from the level raise it also means less resists. But, regardless, just because I think SCH is better at BLM at one thing doesn't mean I think it suddenly replaces BLM. That's stupid to think, especially since there's 200+ BLM's on any given time. I don't see why BLMs like to get worked up over this. Is it that hard to look at things logically instead of personally? I honestly don't even think it's that big of a gap (at least one that's pointless to argue over); level 80 BLM/RDM is still amazing. I just dislike how badly SCH is underestimated. They're both very good jobs at everything they do. Just because another job does something slightly better than yours doesn't make your job inferior. You're aware all the SCH screens so far have been epeen shots? I've never seen SCHs nuke that high consistently. As for Ent's screenshot, 1400 is ridiculously low for a BLM sporting full Morrigan's and a Novio/Sorc ring, I'd assume he had a partial resist. It doesn't bother me either way since both jobs work well, but I'd expect a SCH to out nuke a BLM at puddings, they shouldn't hit any accuracy issues, I'd expect them to pull ahead anywhere outside of very high level stuff. Right now the accuracy difference between the jobs is somewhat moot, since high level content hasn't really been increased, so they'd nuke Tiamat easier now than at 75, but I'd expect similar results to 75 when newer High level content is available for 80+. The accuracy difference doesn't matter at Puddings/Buffalos, all those epeen nuke spots, but it would often turn a nuke into a partial resist being where BLM gets an edge. Fapping to high numbers from a situation your job has an advantage in is pretty HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. Could be because I'm 5/5 INT merits? I can't really do the calculation for you since I don't know the exact mechanics about how it works.
I factored in 5 INT for merits.
Well, 1 second I'll show you what I did. Magical crit hit is just 10 MAB. The +10% magical crit hit dmg just means +10% to the crit bonus ie 1 more MAB
Oh I didn't realize I listed everything in my original post...
Well Dasva, that's DoT. Anyway, could you take the numbers I have above and calculate damage using your formula. And here's the INT/MAB/% Bonus from Nezea's gear post. Tarutaru SCH75/RDM37 HQ Staff 5/0 10% Strap +1 1/0 Phantom 1/0 Sel Cap 4/2 Pendant 0/8 Moldy 0/5 Novio 0/7 Royal Gote 5/4 Goliard 0/4 Snow 5/0 Tamas 5/0 Gleeman 5/0 Hyorin Obi 0/0 10% (Obi) Tatsu Sita 2/4 Yigit Feet 3/2 INT = 77 Base + 36 Armor + 7 Food + 5 Merits + 7 Storm = 132 MAB = 36 If my calculation was in error because of my critical hit bonus confusion, please subtract 10% from my result and increase MAB to 46. 10 MAB from critical hit makes more sense. SCH75/RDM37 Tarutaru I attained 1740 which is a little closer to the numbers Nezea posted.
1810 - 10% + 10MAB = 1740. My formula is just wikis. And I'm a little busy doing this...
 Bah I should've come /sch. Fairly safe once you get used to it if you don't get a resist Hitetsu, I understand your point of view that I'm not allowing BLM to use all its abilities to boost damage but the only one that's really reasonable is Burn. You can't honestly tell me you're going to ever go build 100 TP so you can Vidohunir something before nuking it. But for the sake of fairness since you've pointed out that I'm not going to be using matching weather on every nuke, sure, go use Burn but I still doubt you can match my damage even with that. Updated screens inc:
   Ebullience on all three, now level 80 with same gear as before except Hecate's Cape instead of Gleeman's and Teal Slops instead of Tatsumaki Sitagoromo. Edit: orz forgot I was using Goliard Clogs instead of Yigit Crackows so I lost a bit of damage there. Tried with Yigit and my numbers were 2144 Stone V, 1824 Blizzard IV, 1855 Thunder IV
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Ok, I'll try again.
Edit: I must be missing something completely obvious, SCH80/RDM40 only got me 1686 with the gear update... I'm still waiting for this T4 that beats AM2.
I'm not the one who claimed that it would Dasva, but to be honest those T4s likely would beat an average BLM's AM2 and my T5s certainly would.
Don't know Prince >_< as far as I can tell you incorporated everything so maybe there's something wrong with the formula you're using. I must be missing something completely obvious, SCH80/RDM40 only got me 1686 with the gear update...
HQ Staff 5/0 10% Strap +1 1/0 Phantom 1/0 Sel Cap 4/2 Pendant 0/8 Moldy 0/5 Novio 0/7 Royal Gote 5/4 Goliard 0/4 Snow 5/0 Tamas 5/0 Gleeman 5/0 Hecate -5/+3 Hyorin Obi 0/0 10% (Obi) Tatsu Sita 2/4 Teal +3/-1 Yigit Feet 3/2 129 INT = 79 Base + 31 Armor + 7 Food + 5 Merits + 7 Stormsurge MAB = 38 Armor + 24 from MAB II. This is going to give me a headache >_>.
I think I factored in Ebullience too early... Is Ebullience 20% on top of total damage without it?
I've heard that Ebullience is applied only after everything else is calculated, but I'm not 100% sure of that.
If that's the case, I got 1500 w/o it, * 1.2 = 1800. We got a match XD.
Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury said: 129 INT = 79 Base + 31 Armor + 7 Food + 5 Merits + 7 Stormsurge MAB = 38 Armor + 24 from MAB II. Yeah his result was 1824~ in game so I think I'm finally not confused anymore =P.
Screenshots of my BLM vs. puddings coming in a few minutes so people can see how that compares to a BLM with the best gear.
BLM with comparable gear = 1782 Blizzard IV. Under same conditions.
I'm revising my statement I made earlier to: A properly geared SCH with all available abilities active including Ebullience and Max Stormsurge will beat a properly geared BLM nuking under the same conditions. But I think it's only fair to allow BLM burn, although it is not a job ability it is a spell BLM has readily available all the time which will push Blizzard IV damage to ~1865. So at full potential without special items and crit bonus, BLM will beat a SCH, by a little. Edit: In the BLM calc, I used AF2. So the difference will probably be a bit greater on non-ice spells. But if we consider Iceday, we'll have to add another 10% to SCH's bonus effectively beating BLM. So in the end I guess it just depends when and where you are. SCH's ability to nuke those numbers on the fly is still very impressive. BLM78/RDM39 but the INT gained by level 80 is little if anything:
    In fact, SCH Stone V is only about 50 damage short of my BLM's AM2. @Hitetsu: clearly, the difference is quite a bit larger than ~50 damage between SCH and BLM T4s under these circumstances. @Princemercury: did you give BLM day effect when you calculated that? Because my tier 4s aren't anywhere near 1782. Regarding the previous question about nuking consistency, in fact I find I resist even less on SCH than on BLM. I never really did a calculation on how much MACC I have so I'm just speaking based on speculation, but my usual SCH nuking gear is such that it sacrifices a tiny bit of damage in favor of a lot more MACC (i.e. Goliard Clogs instead of Yigit Crackows). For anything that resist rate isn't totally floored on Klimaform makes a huge difference anyway. In any case the point here is just to show people what SCH is capable of in comparison because I feel it is very much underestimated. Hopefully a few people are a little more enlightened after this >_>. Yeah I used day bonus under BLM, but only a 10% increase to level out SCH's weather ability.
I'd think on icedays blm pulls closer ahead.
Sch will go from 10-20%. A 9.09% increase in dmg. A blm lost 10 int about 3-4% dmg, but gain 15% dmg from obi and af2 legs. So net gain from day should be a litte over 11% But keep in mind if you calc day bonus for BLM, you'll have to add another 10% on SCH just for fair play, making SCH>BLM.
Edit: Sorry didn't process you saying 10-20%. I did do that hence the 10% day weather bonus going to 20%....
Gilgamesh.Nezea said: @Hitetsu: clearly, the difference is quite a bit larger than ~50 damage between SCH and BLM T4s under these circumstances. If I get the chance later, I'll go nuke a few puddings. It's possible I've misremembered something and I was using AM2. Like I said, if I get the chance I'll go and see what my nukes are doing. |
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