Nocturnus Helm Question

Here is a question for all you paladins who've got this.

Will the physical damage absorption from the Nocturnus Helm prevent spell interruptions? And is the proc rate high enough to warrant using during spell casting?

I have typically used Koenig Helm to cast Utsusemi: Ichi however I'm curious to find out if this would be a good alternative to avoid interruptions.

I highly doubt it. If the proc rate was high enough to rely on it to cast utsu then you wouldn't need to cast at all. Either way, you want to at the very least finish casting in turban.

Testing on BG found it to be around ~5% iirc.

He also asked if the proc rate was high enough to keep on during spell casting.

I'd think it'd work the same as shadow mantle (beats me if it negates interuptions, but doubtful).

Yeah but I'd like to know the answer IF it would stop interruptions, that's all :P

idk bro, the only people I've seen with Nocturnus gear are gimp DDs using Headlong Belt.

[spoiler] yes I mad [/spoiler]

Testing pretty much showed that +5 shield skill on koenig helm isnt worth a ***. Shadow mantle also beats boxer's mantle for interupts. If the helm is actually 5% proc rate it would contribute more for shadow recast than koenig helm.

@Drac thanks for the info, with a proc rate of 5% it would surely be more useful than a koenig helm if it does in fact prevent interruptions.

I really hope someone who is lucky enough to get one tries it out.

Same here, and haidate-less DDs with headlong belt who could have used all that campaigning time to get one from a sky ls >_>

I think Kirschy did some testing with it on BG, you could check out that thread if it mentions it interrupts.

Interruptions occur when you're hit for damage, stunned, terrored, slept, silenced, moved, etc..

When you absorb the hit whether it be physical or magical you're actually being healed so in no possible way can you be interupted.

That being said I wouldn't add noc helm in an "oh ***my shadows are down" build for several reasons.
1.Defense is crazy low compared to KNG schaller.
-You lose 14 DEF 10VIT 30HP +5shield skill when switching to noc helm.
2.The chances of absorb are pretty low.
-5% absorb does not outweight the constant benefit of koenig schaller.

Though I will add its perfect for pld solo.

I think you're crazy Itachi lol

And drac yea i just read that thread he doesn't say anything about interruptions he does mention some testing with his shadow mantle tho.

In addition i know it cures you and shouldn't interrupt but all the same I'm curious to see it put to the test since there is no other item like it.

Let me bring up a situation thats nearly identical to the one discussed here.

Would u throw in noc mail over iron ram/avalon's breastplate in your mag def build set on pld just because you have a small percentage of absorbing it? I'd hope you'd go for something that works 100% of the time over 5% of the time.

The added bonus from Koenigs defense i think is rather negligible. In addition i doubt ones shield block rate would drop too much lower without the 5 skill. Sure you'll take a few more damage and have like 40 less hp but the whole point of Pld/Nin is to use shadows and anything that can stack on top of shield block to help me cast ichi is A-OK in my book.

I don't think of my setup as a "Oh ***" set it's more of a maximize blocks and interruption down set for the sole purpose of reapplying Ichi when Ni timers are down.

If you want max reduction on pld all you need is valor breeches and rampart with 5/5 iron will. You'll never be interupted again. That way if it does come to it you can max spell interruption rate while only sacrificing 3% haste and some fast cast for recasts.

I do have rampart merited like that but sadly you can't keep rampart up all the time. You could use w.turban and i wouldn't fault any one who needs a faster ichi cast, it's just i don't find myself waiting on ichi timers hardly ever. You were talking about Koenig however and i really think the nocturn helm will be exceedingly useful in situations where u want to cast ichi assuming it does in fact allow for uninterrupted spell casting 5% of the time.

A more useful helm in casting ichi i think would be a fast cast helm from the Kupo add on but I've used that for something else.

Faulty logic. If the move won't kill you even if it doesn't proc and Noct Mail makes you take less damage on average than your MDT/MDB equip in that slot, it's the better piece. 5% proc rate is better than 6 MDB provided you have at least 20 MDB beforehand without considering the benefits of absorbing rather than simply negating damage. 5% MDT on the other hand is pretty much always better, but last I heard PLD doesn't need Avalon Breastplate to cap MDT.

That said, if Koenig Schaller's benefits to block rate are really that low, you'll reduce damage more effectively by getting shadows up more often than you will by casting in the piece with more defense and VIT. I don't know how shield skill works, but if 5 skill does not decrease your rate of unblocked hits by 5% as compared to without it, use the helm.

ex let's say 5 skill is 2.5% block rate. If your block rate without the Schaller is 50%, then you're also not blocking 50% of the time. 50/(50-2.5)=5.26% decrease in the number of unblocked hits you'll take; Nocturnus Helm would be the weaker piece in this situation. Threshold value assuming my 2 skill = 1% to base block rate is 47.5% block rate pre-Schaller.

Bad analogy for said comparison. Avalon is 5% magic damage taken, the proc rate of the absorbsion(sp) is 5%. They are both the same over all or will average out to be about the same.(but ofcourse 1-2 spells in a fight could push it to avalons favor)

If you take a sample size of 100 nukes of 100(damage). Over time thats a total of 10000 damage done.

5% of that 100% of the time is 95 damage from each nuke 100 times. 9500 total damage done, 500 damage prevented.

Now you take full damage from the nuke which is 100, but out of the 100 nukes, you absorb 5% of them, which is 5 nukes, 5 of those nukes being 100 each is 500 damage negated. 9500

*assuming you absorb full damage, if its in resists then you can obviously deduce which is better...*

Also the comparison with bodies is not the same with heads. Koenigs skill while 100% always on, is not 100% guarantee-ing a block, the block rate is as random as the head absorbing damage from a proc of 5%.


Also about the comment about turban and koenig, just do this, cast in koenig, and around 70% of your bar to finish ichi, pop back into your haste gear, and youll have the added protection of skill for casting and haste for recasts, since you only need haste when ending your casting, not before, for it to reduce the recast timer.

Avalon would actually be better than Nocturnus in pretty much any situation where the full value of the MDT is applicable because MDT works like haste; the more you have the better it gets until you cap. I'd argue for Noct if you had 0 MDT just because of the absorb, but that also implies you don't have Shell...

Yes, but I wasnt using the 5% alone, because 5% without any MDT is actually less than 5%, while at 45%, when you add the 5% its actually 5%(5.07%)

*edit*
I wouldnt use it over mdt/mdb builds for small nuking type mobs, but mobs that like to spam magic AoEs a lot, I could probably see the noct body pulling ahead, probably side grade(though im not sure how the absorb works, do you actually heal with the damage taken??)

...no? Or am I misreading your post?

5% MDT at 0% base is 100/95=5.26% damage reduced. 5% at 45% base (now capping) is 55/50=10% damage reduced.

EDIT: Yes, it heals you.

Maybe I did the equation wrong but isnt 5%, 12/256 = .046?(~4.6% or 4%)

while at 45% you get 115/256 (.449 44.9%) meaning 45-50 would make that 5% better than it was at 0.

*edit* reading back, I think I know what you are saying

Yilbegan, anything that chainspells tier III's etc.




Where are those numbers coming from?

IIRC thats how the game reads the damage you take from physical and magical. With 256 being 100%, so since the cap for magical is 50%, you would need 128 to cap out your magic damage taken. Its just like how haste is calculated in 1024

the problem is that you're looking at it backwards. you're reducing damage by adding -dmg gear, which works like adding haste (which reduces delay), so it's classified as an increasing return. you're not really 'adding' anything so it doesn't become a decreasing/static return as you add more (if that makes sense).

edit: I remember doing the math for -dmg gear and can't quite remember the formula, but 256 was found to be too inaccurate (I can't remember if latter equations used 512, 1024 or even 2048 though, orz).

No. No. No. No. No. NONE of this was EVER proven without doubt. No "conclusive tests" were EVER done to prove that Shadow Mantle > Boxer's Mantle or vica versa. The only thing ever done is eyeballing numbers which doesn't prove ***. It's still very much personal preference what you use.

Inb4 shitstorm.