New Trial Of The Magians Staves

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New Trial of the Magians staves
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-11 13:05:16
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Not exactly a brd only question, but the Macc on the new Trial of the magian staves



for example, would this be better than the Terra's staff for landing elegy or any earth based debuff?

All I see is Macc +3 but someone is saying the "Affinity: Macc +3" Makes it into 20% more Macc.

Just wondering if there has been any testing at all.

Ty
 Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-05-11 13:07:49
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Elemental staves m.acc is not % based, it is a static value, 30(ish) for the HQ and 20(ish) for the NQ.
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-11 13:09:33
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Is that the same for the new Trial staves?

Is Macc +3 on the Teiwaz, still simply Macc +3?
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-11 13:11:04
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Preliminary testing did suggest that they're more accurate than the HQ staves, though I think the results ended up being somewhat questionable due to testing procedure... I'll dig it up real quick.

EDIT:
Wortie said:
Did some testing of Teiwaz, Earth Affinity Magic Accuracy +3 and Magic Dmg+1.

385 nukes

369 - no resist
15 - 1/2 resist
1 - 1/4 resist

This was with 291+5 macc on Qiqirn in the ruins as previously suggested.

I'll do some more tests tomorrow hopefully.
CDF said:
Given the experimental conditions, assumptions, and previous work, it's safe to say the Teiwaz has a higher magic accuracy than the HQ staff. So I would leave it at that unless you want to validate the HQ staff having low accuracy.

and later
CDF said:
There was an experimental setup suggested earlier, but the concept of magic accuracy "score" was not made clear. Without boring with details, what pchan meant was that given 65 INT, you should have 290+5 additional magic accuracy (from combat skill and equipment only; no one merits earth magic accuracy) to have around 55% landing rate (no resist) with Stone I on the Poulterer with the correct level. Then with a HQ staff you should have 85% landing rate, and with Teiwaz a 95% landing rate is expected.

After checking the Qiqirn Poulterers, it appears it's the level 78 Poulterers (200 base EXP, 210 EXP with 5% sanction bonus b/c of shitty server) that should be targeted because the lower-level ones have lower than 65 INT (62 INT; 160 base EXP for level 77 and 130 base EXP for level 76). Someone did gather data on the earth Teiwaz, but now I'm not sure the correct-level Qiqirn was targeted.

With 263 melee accuracy (including combat skill, DEX, etc.), the lv 78 Qiqirn should still check "high evasion" while the others won't.

Later I will give some data with a HQ earth staff to validate the conditions set forth in the first paragraph.

Conditions: Terra's Staff, 292 elemental magic skill, 5 magic accuracy, 63 INT (to offset extra skill)

No resist: 57
Half: 12
Quarter: 2
Total: 71

Obviously not at capped landing rate (57/71). Need confirmation that previous data on earth Teiwaz was obtained for a level 78 Qiqirn and appropriate conditions.
[+]
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-11 13:11:13
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Because if they are they seem kinda crap, seeing as the NQ's are better
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-11 13:11:33
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Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Preliminary testing did suggest that they're more accurate than the HQ staves, though I think the results ended up being somewhat questionable due to testing procedure... I'll dig it up real quick.
Cheers
 Kujata.Akeda
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By Kujata.Akeda 2010-05-11 13:21:25
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That'd be pretty sad if you did all the work to complete the trials and an 8k crafted staff does better.
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-11 13:21:40
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Those numbers seem a bit sketchy...
 Sylph.Rawkhawk
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By Sylph.Rawkhawk 2010-05-11 13:36:36
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Well isn't this interesting. Looks like I might have to do a ToM after all.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-11 13:47:32
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Shiva.Flionheart said:
Those numbers seem a bit sketchy...
The relevant post is buried pretty deep in that thread but apparently 100 casts was all that was necessary to get a reasonable confidence interval. It really does depend on what level Qiqirn were involved though.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-05-11 16:54:42
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I've been reading on them. Mostly for dmg. And some reports seem to say +1 on either dmg or macc was equivalent to NQ staff in that regard. Which means +3 should be about double HQ.... but last time I checked wiki there were so many contradicting reports I decided to go make a dmg one myself. Almost done. So yeah well see
 Bismarck.Altar
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By Bismarck.Altar 2010-05-11 23:02:19
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I'm not sure what I'm missing here. Is there a hidden effect?
Because +1 MAcc is not equal to an NQ staff.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-05-12 01:12:51
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Bismarck.Altar said:
I'm not sure what I'm missing here. Is there a hidden effect? Because 1 MAcc is not equal to an NQ staff.
Sorta. It doesn't seem to mean 1 macc as in 1 macc but more like 1 NQ staffs worth
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [70 days between previous and next post]
 Sylph.Rawkhawk
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By Sylph.Rawkhawk 2010-07-20 16:18:09
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Bumping this to see if anyone has done these staves? I have a question about the Status Ailment trials. Does the ailment need to K.O. the mob, or just be active at time of death? Do I need to cast the ailment, or just have the ToM staff equiped?

Thanks for the help.
 Quetzalcoatl.Nightdragon
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By Quetzalcoatl.Nightdragon 2010-07-25 11:40:07
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Ok so im slightly confused about something with these staves, and was hoping someone here could enlighten me. ^^

If people want Mag. Acc. why not go for the one from trial 1741?

MP +75 Mag. Acc. +16

I'm obviously missing something here, but dont know what. Surely its not just to have +1 dmg?
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-07-25 11:47:02
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Quetzalcoatl.Nightdragon said:
Ok so im slightly confused about something with these staves, and was hoping someone here could enlighten me. ^^ If people want Mag. Acc. why not go for the one from trial 1741? MP +75 Mag. Acc. +16 I'm obviously missing something here, but dont know what. Surely its not just to have +1 dmg?
Well for one even HQ elemental staffs have more macc than that.

2nd element affinity: Magic accuracy +4 is ALOT more than 4 macc for earth spells.

As far as I can tell based on limited testing I've seen and paralells to the dmg side 1 elemental affinity is equivalent to NQ staff 2 is equivalent to HQ.

Which would put 3 at better than HQ. If it follows like that 4 should be around 50macc or so.
 Ragnarok.Holyman
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By Ragnarok.Holyman 2010-07-25 11:52:48
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Someone posted the formula for these new staves on BG

I'm currenlty working on last trial of Kuber'as Staff earth affinity macc +4

The formula is each macc affinity = 10 macc

so this would offer (n+1) * 10 macc = 50 earth macc compared to 30 macc on HQ staff

for damage formula it's 1 affinity = 5%

so +4 dmg ones would offer (n+1) * 5% = 25% damage to that element

The staff you're talking about offers fixed 16 macc , I can't think of use for that staff except as part of max MP build for w/e job.
 Quetzalcoatl.Nightdragon
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By Quetzalcoatl.Nightdragon 2010-07-25 13:56:50
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Ramuh.Dasva said:
Quetzalcoatl.Nightdragon said:
Ok so im slightly confused about something with these staves, and was hoping someone here could enlighten me. ^^ If people want Mag. Acc. why not go for the one from trial 1741? MP +75 Mag. Acc. +16 I'm obviously missing something here, but dont know what. Surely its not just to have +1 dmg?
Well for one even HQ elemental staffs have more macc than that. 2nd element affinity: Magic accuracy +4 is ALOT more than 4 macc for earth spells. As far as I can tell based on limited testing I've seen and paralells to the dmg side 1 elemental affinity is equivalent to NQ staff 2 is equivalent to HQ. Which would put 3 at better than HQ. If it follows like that 4 should be around 50macc or so.


Oh ok, i didnt know that the element affinity cause so much of a difference. I was purely going on the status of +16 > +4. But as mentioned before, i was obviously missing something. Thanks for letting me know without attacking me over it ^^
 Sylph.Rawkhawk
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By Sylph.Rawkhawk 2010-07-28 08:47:00
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Sylph.Rawkhawk said:
Bumping this to see if anyone has done these staves? I have a question about the Status Ailment trials. Does the ailment need to K.O. the mob, or just be active at time of death? Do I need to cast the ailment, or just have the ToM staff equiped? Thanks for the help.
To bump this question, someone on wiki responded to me:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Talk:Staff_Trials
Quote:
You need only successfully use the ailment on the mob before it dies. It does not even have to be present when it dies. This was my question too, and I was able to test this on the weekend vs Bugards for Trial 850 in Abyssea. On two mobs, paralyze dropped before the mob died and I was unable to recast in time before it was killed, but the kill still counted. --Nightxade 13:08, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
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By Unicorn.Sedres 2010-07-28 09:32:26
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I suspect the accuracy works like the "magic attack" (note, not "magic attack bonus"), in that the +3 is a multiple of a certain percentage, not a static value.

Say for example if you have 300 magic skill, you'll be getting more than 300+3. Perhaps the +30 macc you get from an ele stave is equivalent to +1 on these magian staves, IE +3 would be equal to +90 macc.

This is all total guesswork, but I would suspect the macc magian is better than the HQ ele stave.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-07-28 09:42:26
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Well if I remember right the macc testing on the +3 macc ended up being exactly more than HQ staffs as HQ were to NQ...

Hence the whole +1 affinity seems to mean NQ and +2 is HQ and so on. That and the dmg follows that

But macc testing is so long and exhausting to say the least