Possibly Could Be #1 MMO If Remastered :D

an individual player with multiple characters can clear everything in ffxiv too, you just need more hardware

even lowest denominator chinese are clearing the hardest content in ffxiv and selling it to anyone..

China's version of XIV is vastly different from every other release. And content being handled by another company entirely.

EDIT: On top of that, they're MANY MANY patch cycles behind. So heavily optimized strategies and BiS have been established and readily available for nearly a year before they get the content.

chinese rmt selling on NA servers are clearly not using a 'vastly different' version.. they're using the NA client and playing the NA game

if you want to look at hard facts, there's only been one piece of content in xiv that lasted longer than a month without defeat and the vast majority was defeated in under a week from release

AV took years
PW took years and a nerf
delve1 took 1.5 months
reisen t4s took 3 months
master trials took 4, 3, 3 months

i'm not even arguing ffxi is the harder game, i'm saying that the lack of variety in ffxiv makes it best suited to autistics who want to feel like they're accomplishing something.. but using difficulty as an argument certainly doesn't hold up very well with how quickly everything in ffxiv dies

Enemies capabilities have little to do with job diversity? Except in the case where their specific mechanics completely ruins a jobs performance.

Please, explain to me how vastly different all the 2h melee DPS play.

You specifically pointed out me being able to multibox all(not most, ty) of FFXI's content as if it were some sort of problem with FFXI. I have no doubt I could also multibox all of FFXIV's content, were there any reason to actually play it. Chinese RMT can kill everything in FFXIV, they haven't gotten to master trials here after 1.5 years and barely made it to aeonics with SMN ***.

YOU brought up the topic of difficulty, I just educated you on it.

It's not that they play different, it's that they have differences. Even things as simple as the circles create more variety. By having different jobs excel in different situations, however mildly, you make the jobs feel unique and give the player a sense of association with their preferred jobs.

For a monster like Albumen with heavy debuffs, I would prefer SAM for kendatsuba gear or RUN for inherent m.eva. For a monster that's primarily speed based like WoC, I would prefer WAR for their obscene burst damage with 1hr. For B&W master trial, RNG gets to sit outside aoe and keep their damage up. If a spare stun is needed and the monster isn't particularly evasive to magic, DRK can fill that role while contributing adequate damage. For something like warder of temperance or unafraid of the dark, damage types become important and jobs with powerful secondary weapon options become more appealing. If, for whatever reason, a GEO is unavailable.. angon(DRG) with light shotted dia(COR) will still allow melee to cap ratio.

It's not that the jobs play or are extremely different, it's that the differences they do have are apparent enough to create preferences for certain jobs. It encourages the player to be diverse, and rewards players who favor specific DPS by giving them situations where their DPS will shine.

In FFXIV, you will almost never choose a specific DPS for a specific fight because of that DPS's merits. Everything is built to be interchangable, which is great for inclusion and feel-good factor, but it's pretty obviously a dumbing down.

The implication you know little of the games meta, the importance of party composition or how different jobs perform in different fights in XIV is pretty telling.

The intricate details that goes into optimizing fights for progression to make up for being significantly under geared is kinda crazy. And it changes with every different composition.

But hey, because XI has ~exclusivity~ it's clearly a deeper game for that alone and totally isn't just a "kill as fast as possible to avoid as many mechanics as possible" kinda game these days. Where the only actual difference the jobs have is damage type and a bit of utility. Also, hilariously unbalanced gear choices.

But that's just like, my opinion, man.

Done with this discussion though.

From the very beginning the XI community has, generally, been unable to accept that other games could possibly have merits it doesn't.

Because clearly XI not being the absolute best in every way makes it a ***game. Which is totally why I still play it 15 years later.

Strawwwwwwww Mannnnnnnn.

I never said that, nor did I jump in the 'XI is the best game ever' circle jerk. I've played way more Overwatch than XI for the last couple months. It's great that they managed to keep 25 different heros relevant, sculpting them to counter each other and synergize together in so many different ways. That sort of balance in a MMO would be amazing.

What I actually said, and still stand by despite your pathetic excuse for supporting arguments, was:

Eh this isn't particularly a thing. Optimal comp will always be the optimal comp because the difference in damage out put of swapping even 1 job is very notable (this assumes all parties on the same skill level). Where it differs from XI is that in XIV you can stick to the jobs you actually enjoy and still perform adequately, it only really comes into play if your in a group that pushes for week 1 clears or speed clears. In XI if you wanted to stick to the jobs you enjoyed you might face times where you'd be disqualified from being able to contribute or have to be ok with being a dead weight/filler body.

You guys spend more time talking about FFXI than playing it...no wonder the server populations are low.

You need to take the size of the community into consideration. Trying to do Master Trials on Fenrir for the average joe is going to be close to impossible. The people interested/capable of doing that content just don't exist on that server. Content is going to be cleared much faster when you have more people who are interested and capable in doing it. Even back during peak popularity, AV/PW were gated behind ridiculous requirements to attempt the fights. Pandemonium Warden was fairly easy it just wasn't clear because experimenting was impractical. People thought that you needed to clear the adds between each wave for years because of some initial misinformation. Everybody was too afraid to try anything because of how annoying it was to get a pop set (which nobody usually bothered with because ZNM gear was so lackluster.)

Optimum meta comp =/= optimizing for whatever comp you happen to be running.

I don't really see this as a strong argument. It doesn't matter if you have 2,000,000 other players or 80,000, the group clearing first will be a group of 6-18. You could make a case about the density of talent and having more chance of having truly amazing players in a bigger pool, but both games have a very low skill ceiling in general. The 'difficulty' is in planning and gear acquisition.

Could make a case that more groups trying and sharing information = faster dissemination of strategies.. but the strategies themselves are not very complicated, especially in ffxiv's case. There's pretty much one way to play any job and the only improvement is memorizing move order and getting gear to the point you can put out enough DPS. FFXI would almost certainly clear faster with more people to share information, but I don't think FFXIV would clear slower with less.

Regardless of the game, the people who clear first will be the ones who have an entire group that works together. Worrying about how difficult it is to improvise a party on the fly is not relevant to first clear.

Something I was going to point out as well. XIV clears content quickly, but usually, that's after hours and hours of grinding away at a single fight.

nerd fights are the best.

I prefer Roller Derby myself.

I remember back in 2004 when the Dynamis Lord was tough you guys remember ! Let's all remember.

You guys remember Bubbly Bernie who would have thought he would run for President.

Yep.

that's not dynamis lord

And you can tell that because Dynamis Lord isn't shown in the picture?

I posted it because of Scragg, which no one has mentioned anything about yet. :S

I don't mind xiv.. Its something i can log in and grind by my own lonesome self.

But i enjoy the required party mechanics of xi and mostly the value of gear not being outdated in a patch. The gear treadmill is not my thing.

hi shadow lord was very hard and so was dyna windy

you can tell that because it isn't even Xarc

Yes it is. The 2 dragons have been photoshopped in.

"You know nothing John Snow"

Grinding away for hours at a 100% scripted (besides HP pushes) fight. You literally press the same keys over and over for hours, nights, weeks on end with little variance.

The hardest part of 14 is getting 8 people together on the same night 3-5 days a week for the same 2-3 hours.

There's really no point comparing XI and XIV. The emphasis of one is on building your character and the other is doing/learning/completing content. If anyone still playing XIV is aiming to make their character The Best, they're under some weird delusion.

Was the pond photoshopped in as well? As well as the chat log? Both are also telling of Beau... Oh I get it the entire picture was photoshopped into the picture!

You've not heard of Dynamis Lord Angara?

Sigh, yes.. everything was photoshopped into and on top of things that were photoshopped. Then after some serious professional editing, more photoshopped took place, after which time everything was painstakingly uploaded to Killing Ifrit.

Feel free to check out the original post there at http://www.... oh wait, nevermind. KI is dead.