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Windower won't start! - Windower v4.3 and the Creators Update
Windower won't start! - Windower v4.3 and the Creators Update
 Leviathan.ArconVIP
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 660
By Leviathan.Arcon 2017-04-30 05:34:50
When I crash its not producing a crash report.
Did you set up automatic crash dumps and it still does not create them?
Bismarck.Vespertaru said: »Iryoku, with Vista being so low on that list of people using, does that mean it won't be supported anymore like XP? (even though that's not why xp is not supported anymore)
I wouldn't even call XP officially unsupported, but it has one issue we cannot easily work around. To my knowledge you can still play on XP, it only doesn't auto-update addons because of an SSL incompatibility with GitHub. It still updates Windower and plugins and runs otherwise normally (again, to my knowledge... if there are other issues with XP I'm not personally aware of them). If there was a simple fix for it, I'd do it now.
Point being, we don't really "drop support" for anything, at some point things are just not worth our time and resources anymore. So no, we have no intention of dropping Vista support, but if an error were to be introduced on Vista which would take us major resources to figure out and fix, it would probably not be worth it.
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Leviathan.Arcon
VIP
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 660
By Leviathan.Arcon 2017-04-30 05:42:18
Personally i'd like to contribute in what way i can, However when i read on your official page that (When i high lighted it) that "This version is not supported", i wasn't entirely sure what that ment and i thought maybe it required a certain level of programing skill to use it, so i left it.
That is just god-awful wording on our part, of course we support it just as much as the proper ("live") version. In fact, some people seem to think they're different "editions" of Windower, but they're really not, the dev version is just ahead. When we feel it's ready we take that same version and copy it to the live folder. So of course we have to support it, or we wouldn't be supporting the live version either.
I'll see about rewording that, in case it scares off more people.
For a average player, would using a dev build assist over all and we just submit w/e bug reports arise or is it indeed only ment for highe end programmers?
It's absolutely meant for everyone, and you don't need any kind of skill to use it. You simply report an issue on our tracker once you discover it.
You don't even have to do stressful and important events with it, if you're afraid of crashing. Most of the issues people reported here would have been discovered by just dicking around in your MH for a few minutes. So you can really use it at your own leisure and then go back to the live version for important things, if you don't trust dev to be stable enough. And that would already help us out a lot.
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 Odin.Horu
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-04-30 05:48:08
I tried your installing this program, however it doesn't seem to work for me, I'm a XP user so i'd hope me using it could contribute somehow, it gives a error that "Dumpsetup.exe is not a valid win32 application"
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 87
By Bismarck.Vespertaru 2017-04-30 05:49:29
Did you set up automatic crash dumps and it still does not create them?
I hit the download link on the page and it failed to download the file. Any suggestions?
Odin.Horu
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-04-30 05:51:23
Personally i'd like to contribute in what way i can, However when i read on your official page that (When i high lighted it) that "This version is not supported", i wasn't entirely sure what that ment and i thought maybe it required a certain level of programing skill to use it, so i left it.
That is just god-awful wording on our part, of course we support it just as much as the proper ("live") version. In fact, some people seem to think they're different "editions" of Windower, but they're really not, the dev version is just ahead. When we feel it's ready we take that same version and copy it to the live folder. So of course we have to support it, or we wouldn't be supporting the live version either.
I'll see about rewording that, in case it scares off more people.
For a average player, would using a dev build assist over all and we just submit w/e bug reports arise or is it indeed only ment for highe end programmers?
It's absolutely meant for everyone, and you don't need any kind of skill to use it. You simply report an issue on our tracker once you discover it.
You don't even have to do stressful and important events with it, if you're afraid of crashing. Most of the issues people reported here would have been discovered by just dicking around in your MH for a few minutes. So you can really use it at your own leisure and then go back to the live version for important things, if you don't trust dev to be stable enough. And that would already help us out a lot. Thanks for confirming, I'll give it a go soon, altho i am one of the users that crash on POL loading so i might have to revert to previous version if it still doesn't work and wait it out till thats fixed
Odin.Horu
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-04-30 06:00:10
I can confirm the developer build crashes on POL start up as well
Asura.Sesono
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 95
By Asura.Sesono 2017-04-30 06:19:09
Yeah seems like its too much to come up with a simple update or w/e the heck they did... just casues problems over problems.
Is there no testing involved when you change things so drastically?
I'm seriously angry that we didnt even have a choice to take that update (lol - more like a "break that ***") ...
However atm Windower is not useable as it is simply not working at all. No Error Message given thus nothing to look into - it just doesnt work.
frustrating (and i thought ashita was bad^^) These builds were publicly available for approx. two weeks before being pushed out on the stable update stream, we fixed everything that was reported by people who actually took the initiative to test things before pushing these changes out. If you're upset, fine. That is your right, but the ad hominem attacks are not appreciated.
There are exactly three people working on Windower's Launcher and Hook. Only one of us still plays Final Fantasy XI at all. We all have jobs and other obligations outside of our work on this project. We do not get paid for this, and we do not accept donations. In fact, maintaining Windower costs us money. We work on Windower in our spare time because we enjoy it. While, I can't speak for the others, reading posts like these sucks all of the enjoyment out of working on Windower for me. They make me wonder why I bother doing this for a game I don't even play any more.
I knew something along those lines would have been answered or nothing at all.
But here is the thing: People, not just me, are frustrated things dont work like they always did. Seeing that a simple update (it seemed to be simple for people not knowing anything about all this) did break everything - its the top topic in my LS atm.
You do this a long time already and you KNOW how people can react when things get messy but you still working on this which i really appreciate, i honestly do! But would you please admit that you *** it up? At least for a good amount of people.
I really understand that you have no gain in making this programm and maintaining it cost time and money - i really do and as much as i appreciate you efforts and continuing work you have to understand that windower became a standard over the years which leads to a burden...unfortunatley. But on the bright side, i am sure people would love to donate a lot to keep it running and working.
Please consider taking it - and fix it, please.... would you?
Oh and yes you are right, i went a bit too far in my comment - i apologize for that but i was really mad at that time. Sorry
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2666
By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2017-04-30 06:28:50
Yeah seems like its too much to come up with a simple update or w/e the heck they did... just casues problems over problems.
Is there no testing involved when you change things so drastically?
I'm seriously angry that we didnt even have a choice to take that update (lol - more like a "break that ***") ...
However atm Windower is not useable as it is simply not working at all. No Error Message given thus nothing to look into - it just doesnt work.
frustrating (and i thought ashita was bad^^) These builds were publicly available for approx. two weeks before being pushed out on the stable update stream, we fixed everything that was reported by people who actually took the initiative to test things before pushing these changes out. If you're upset, fine. That is your right, but the ad hominem attacks are not appreciated.
There are exactly three people working on Windower's Launcher and Hook. Only one of us still plays Final Fantasy XI at all. We all have jobs and other obligations outside of our work on this project. We do not get paid for this, and we do not accept donations. In fact, maintaining Windower costs us money. We work on Windower in our spare time because we enjoy it. While, I can't speak for the others, reading posts like these sucks all of the enjoyment out of working on Windower for me. They make me wonder why I bother doing this for a game I don't even play any more.
I knew something along those lines would have been answered or nothing at all.
But here is the thing: People, not just me, are frustrated things dont work like they always did. Seeing that a simple update (it seemed to be simple for people not knowing anything about all this) did break everything - its the top topic in my LS atm.
You do this a long time already and you KNOW how people can react when things get messy but you still working on this which i really appreciate, i honestly do! But would you please admit that you *** it up? At least for a good amount of people.
I really understand that you have no gain in making this programm and maintaining it cost time and money - i really do and as much as i appreciate you efforts and continuing work you have to understand that windower became a standard over the years which leads to a burden...unfortunatley. But on the bright side, i am sure people would love to donate a lot to keep it running and working.
Please consider taking it - and fix it, please.... would you?
Just stop posting.
Asura.Sesono
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 95
By Asura.Sesono 2017-04-30 06:34:32
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »Just stop posting. Why the hell would you come here and tell others to stop posting? hm?
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2666
By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2017-04-30 06:36:44
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »Just stop posting. Why the hell would you come here and tell others to stop posting? hm?
You're complaining about Windower not working, I get it. You're yelling and criticizing one of the only people capable of getting it working again. And he straight up told you your comments impact his desire to get it working. You, and anyone who takes up the cause you're on (whatever that is) could be what destroys Windower entirely. Just *** stop. They'll get to it when they can, that's how it has always been, that's how it always will be.
Asura.Sesono
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 95
By Asura.Sesono 2017-04-30 06:42:32
And you didnt read or you didnt understand or both...w/e it is. I was done anyway :)
tscha tscha ^^
Odin.Horu
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-04-30 06:57:32
Please consider taking it - and fix it, please.... would you?
Simple donating won't be enough to entice people will full times jobs to start focusing on windower programing fully, not to mention as soon as a bug arises while they are taking the donations, you then have people saying "We're paying you to fix this, why aren't you fixing it? its been 5 minutes" and start to forget they still need to work inbetween Work,RL,Family,personal time,etc etc then it becomes a whole lot more of complete hate filled drama. i wonder out of the small team thats left how many would stay on the project when it goes out of control, its bad enough as it is some of the comments people make when their volunteering from themselves
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 37
By Asura.Daiiawn 2017-04-30 07:00:58
There are exactly three people working on Windower's Launcher and Hook. Only one of us still plays Final Fantasy XI at all. We all have jobs and other obligations outside of our work on this project. We do not get paid for this, and we do not accept donations. In fact, maintaining Windower costs us money. We work on Windower in our spare time because we enjoy it. While, I can't speak for the others, reading posts like these sucks all of the enjoyment out of working on Windower for me. They make me wonder why I bother doing this for a game I don't even play any more.
Everyone bitching and moaning about things breaking needs to read the above and then keep reading the above again and again and again until it sinks in.
As a developer myself, I can tell you a few things that are likely true.
Nobody is less happy about a broken build than the guys working on it.
They understand how annoying it is for you when it doesnt work and appreciate patience.
Posts complaining and saying "just fix it" or "undo it", or asking why a 'simple' change has broken things, are not helping, if anything they are hindering.
Reporting a bug with no detail, is not appreciated and isnt constructive. However reporting a bug with as much detail as possible (things like OS version, crash dumps, steps to recreate the issue) are very much appreciated.
Nobody pays for this, maintaining it is in itself close to a full time job (something they already have), as a user you are entitled to absolutely nothing. If the devs working on this were to turn around tomorrow and say "screw it, were done" that would be their right. Its a credit to them that they keep going with it outside of their jobs.
How many of you find it tricky getting your lua's to work? How many have lua's written by other people that dont seem to work, or you cant follow what its doing? Take that, times the complexity by 1000 and you could be close to some of what these guys are dealing with in terms of the legacy code they are working with.
As for testing stuff, there are hundreds (if not 1000s) of combinations of OS/Installed updates/Configuration/Drivers in play on each and every machine using windower. For each of those cases, there are again 100s if not 1000s of different use cases of windower/things that would need to be tested to help prevent unforseen issues. You cannot reasonably expect a small team to do this testing, especially not while doing dev on the project.
Good work windower team, all appreciated from me!
Odin.Horu
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-04-30 07:05:18
Very well said Daiiawn.
Cheers to the dev team
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 49
By Asura.Queenforever 2017-04-30 10:23:54
Thankyou for bringing us windower, i use only a few things on it but like most i have got used to it being about, so i thank you very much for the time and money you put into and and thank you very much in advance for fixing it for us.
And lady go get stuffed , no need to get so offensive we are all used to windower and miss it so go beat a wall up or something and leave us be to vent alittle.
By Nathoo 2017-04-30 10:41:19
I have been trying to log on since yesterday, and it wont load past the "Launching PlayOnline" and I use windows 7 and on my windows 10 it times out of PlayOnline.
Playing Vanilla mode was extremely laggy.
If anyone is having this issues and have fixed them let me know, if not i will just wait until the windower team fixes it.
Odin.Horu
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 180
By Odin.Horu 2017-04-30 11:31:27
I have been trying to log on since yesterday, and it wont load past the "Launching PlayOnline" and I use windows 7 and on my windows 10 it times out of PlayOnline.
Playing Vanilla mode was extremely laggy.
If anyone is having this issues and have fixed them let me know, if not i will just wait until the windower team fixes it.
Byrth mentioned reverting back to the previous version VIA "System restore". you then disable or unplug your internet, let windower load until playonline (Since the internet isn't connected it won't update), when your on the playonline screen you reconnect/enable your internet and it'll run.
Just make sure you system restore to a day that is before the update
I'v done this myself, so its a temp fix until they can find the problem. if you have the bug report software installed, make sure to send them your bug reports to help narrow the search down faster
Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6137
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2017-04-30 11:36:34
I managed to replicate the "crash on restore from minimize" bug, but it only happens on my laptop.
We have that crash dump now, but I can't replicate any non-XP bugs and we have no dumps of them.
For the record, no one working on Windower has a computer with XP, Vista, 8, or 8.1 installed. Even if some of those aren't formally unsupported, they're at least untested (unless someone using them is on -dev). I'm not sure we have any computers with 7 installed either. This guarantees that we're unable to troubleshoot problems with those OSs unless you provide dumps.
Instructions for / a link to DumpSetup.exe are here: https://github.com/Windower/Issues/wiki/Enabling-automatic-crash-dumps
In-depth:
* Download DumpSetup.exe
* Move it to where you want your dumps to go (mine are in Dropbox)
* Run it
** It'll probably come up with some warning about it being untrusted, click "more information" and then "run anyway"
** It'll ask for elevated permission (because it's editing your registry to enable autodumps for POL)
* The dumps it creates will be placed in a "dumps" folder inside whichever directory DumpSetup.exe was in when you ran it.
When you crash, it should create a dump in that dumps folder (or if it fails to, that's also informative). The files are typically 15-30MB in my experience. I have mine in Dropbox, so to share them I just right click and select "Copy Dropbox Link," then go to http://www.github.com/windower/issues/issues, open a new issue, and provide the dump.
By Yeno7 2017-04-30 11:49:59
Guess I will have to jump to win 7 64 bit, 32 bit wont work anymore even by blocking IP and changing the Hook.dll on the folder :/ it did not update anymore but... wont start anyways >__<
By Beau 2017-04-30 12:06:30
Thank you for making Windower like it used to be, where I can alt-tab to take focus off the screen and use my mouse and controller to do other things. This is truely terrific. Keep up the hard work.
For the alt button being depressed when alt-tabbing, I just disable the keyboard and mouse using the built in commands: //keyboard_blockinput 1
and to re-enable, press insert key and type: keyboard_blockinput 0
voila, now I can finally dualbox on my same computer as intended
[+]
By Rife 2017-04-30 12:15:33
I managed to replicate the "crash on restore from minimize" bug, but it only happens on my laptop.
We have that crash dump now, but I can't replicate any non-XP bugs and we have no dumps of them.
For the record, no one working on Windower has a computer with XP, Vista, 8, or 8.1 installed. Even if some of those aren't formally unsupported, they're at least untested (unless someone using them is on -dev). I'm not sure we have any computers with 7 installed either. This guarantees that we're unable to troubleshoot problems with those OSs unless you provide dumps.
Instructions for / a link to DumpSetup.exe are here: https://github.com/Windower/Issues/wiki/Enabling-automatic-crash-dumps
In-depth:
* Download DumpSetup.exe
* Move it to where you want your dumps to go (mine are in Dropbox)
* Run it
** It'll probably come up with some warning about it being untrusted, click "more information" and then "run anyway"
** It'll ask for elevated permission (because it's editing your registry to enable autodumps for POL)
* The dumps it creates will be placed in a "dumps" folder inside whichever directory DumpSetup.exe was in when you ran it.
When you crash, it should create a dump in that dumps folder (or if it fails to, that's also informative). The files are typically 15-30MB in my experience. I have mine in Dropbox, so to share them I just right click and select "Copy Dropbox Link," then go to http://www.github.com/windower/issues/issues, open a new issue, and provide the dump.
Hey I was unaware of the dump program. I was having the restore from minimized issue. Uploaded my dump here
https://ufile.io/zaqk6
 Bahamut.Dannyl
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1549
By Bahamut.Dannyl 2017-04-30 12:44:07
For the record, no one working on Windower has a computer with XP, Vista, 8, or 8.1 installed. Even if some of those aren't formally unsupported, they're at least untested (unless someone using them is on -dev). I'm not sure we have any computers with 7 installed either. This guarantees that we're unable to troubleshoot problems with those OSs unless you provide dumps.
This blows my mind. Especially after previously reading this:
I appreciate all the feedback on the changes. I'd like everyone to know that while there were not very many observable changes, this switch over in attempt to allow our Win10 user base to continue playing was a fairly substantial undertaking.
So is the intent for the majority of people that play this game and wish to use windower be on Windows 10? I'm curious if there was some effort in trying to poll what users were playing on rather then just make things compatible for win10 only?
The alt-tab issues some of us are having with Windows 7 don't produce dumps to assist. fyi
[+]
 Ragnarok.Fabiano
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 153
By Ragnarok.Fabiano 2017-04-30 13:26:03
anyone found a way around to use win keys for gs again ? still doesnt work for me since the latest update
Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6137
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2017-04-30 14:13:05
Bugs that I'm currently aware of:
* Minimize/Maximize crashes on Windows 10 Redstone 2 - We have two dumps for this
* Windows steals the Windows key from us - Not sure how
* Windows 7 32-bit doesn't like the launch process - Is this what you guys are experiencing? https://github.com/Windower/Issues/issues/889
* Wincontrol is causing deadlocks - I haven't read up on this yet
* XiLoader causes launcher to fail - This one seems likely to be simple
 Ragnarok.Kenshi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 123
By Ragnarok.Kenshi 2017-04-30 14:20:08
That's what Im experiencing on Win 7 32 bits. Also the minize crash happens on win7 too and alt-tab crash if you go to desktop, if you alt-tab to another program it doesn't crash.
Asura.Farroh
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19
By Asura.Farroh 2017-04-30 14:25:52
If I was the Windower crew with everyone complaining...
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Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 521
By Odin.Geriond 2017-04-30 14:29:43
Bugs that I'm currently aware of:
* Minimize/Maximize crashes on Windows 10 Redstone 2 - We have two dumps for this
* Windows steals the Windows key from us - Not sure how
* Windows 7 32-bit doesn't like the launch process - Is this what you guys are experiencing? https://github.com/Windower/Issues/issues/889
* Wincontrol is causing deadlocks - I haven't read up on this yet
* XiLoader causes launcher to fail - This one seems likely to be simple Is the missing border around Windowered FFXI, causing you to see what is behind FFXI on the edges (meaning the fullscreen isn't actually quite fullscreen) a bug, or something intended?
Windower v4.2's hooking uses a very old x86 library known as madchook. For legal reasons, we haven't been able to update madchook since the creator took it private but did have permission from him to use the old version. In order to get around this, Iryoku wrote a new x86 hooking library for Windower v5 (a work in progress).
As it happens, the Creators Update for Windows 10 (roll-out began yesterday) breaks the old hooking library. However, through collaboration with users who downloaded the Creators Update early, we discovered that Windower v5's hooking library had no problems with the Creators Update.
In the last three days, Iryoku heroically backported v5's hooking library to v4 and adjusted everything for it (bumping the version to 4.3). Two nights ago we got it to build and Arcon has been bug squashing for the last day.
There is also a pretty good chance that this Windower update will also fix the compatibility the issues people have had with Windows 8+ and Windower. This extends to the Launcher, where we've switched to software rendering and expect the white screen issues people were having to be fixed.
v4.3 and the new Launcher are both currently on -dev. If you are having problems with the Creators Update and want to log back in, we recommend at least temporarily using -dev. To do this, duplicate your entire Windower directory, then download this Launcher, replace your existing Windower.exe, and log in.
I will update this post when it goes live, but please try it on -dev or we're unlikely to find the last few bugs that are doubtlessly lurking.
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