Who Is Our Biggest Foreign Intelligence Threat?

History follows sequence. The act of invading Iraq has shaped the current foreign policy situation involving ISIS and trillions up in smoke occupying and trying to stabilize that country. No Iraq invasion presumably meant no AQ in Iraq who'd later go on to become IS and more attention paid to our Afghanistan campaign.

So yeah, it's Bush's fault there. Iraq became a boondoggle with a Shia led government that fell into time tested means of oppressing the minority which directly fed into an insurgencies hand. Having a ***tier democracy in a part of the world where said government isn't organic tends to do that.

As for Obama. You could say his dealing with Putin has further iced our relations with Russia but Putin's decision on Crimea and Ukraine are in the best interests of his nation and run counter to American 'world police' isms. Putin felt encroached upon and wants his nation to be once again seen as competitive with the US so conflict was unavoidable here. He's playing a nationalistic game and that means America is a rival.

On Syria we could have acted directly on Assad post 'red line' but who in America wanted to put boots on the ground sans the hawks? Everyone yells DO SOMETHING but no one wants to put skin in the game.

We've acted through proxies (those moderates!) and the proxies blew up in our faces, again. Is America prepared to take Assad out ourselves and shore up that nation too?

Come on we used to have a global warming thread almost once a month.

If you want to go that route, it's the US fault for getting into WWII after an attack on our naval base unprovoked. We should have taken it up the *** and gone our way. It's also the Pilgrims fault for surviving long enough to colonize America, so might as well blame them for 395 years of human history.

While we are at it, might as well blame the Big Bang for starting this ***up.

As long as Obama get's a free pass, that's all that matters, right?

I'm still blaming Pol Pot for my slow internet speeds !

What I want to know is what fossil fuels were they burning in -340,000 and -125,000 BC. Was there some sort of advanced technic race that burned fossil fuels and contributed to some sort of globally created CO2 greenhouse effect.

Decouple your frothing rage a second, will ya? Might want to look at my argument. You know, that is *is* Bush's fault that we're now dealing with the post-Iraq nightmare. You could pour blame on Obama for not handling Syria early on but again, did the American people want that ground invasion?

That's such a random guy to blame for slow internet speeds. Very random. I'm trying to make the connection somehow, lol.

I don't blame Obama for the invasion and occupation of Iraq, but I do blame him for leaving our toys there for others to play with.

Remember, the soldiers were still there on day 1 of his presidency....

Or do you mean the toys we gave moderates to fight Assad with that fell into the hands of jihadists through defection and combat?

That would fall under Obama and his Saudi buddies.

You mean the toys the military decided to leave behind to save money? Or do you mean the toys we gave moderates to fight Assad with that fell into the hands of jihadists through defection and combat?

Further, captured stockpiles from the Iraqi army also fell into ISIS' hands. What were we supposed to do again? Leave the security forces we trained unarmed?

My question is what was the correct play here?

He must have watched that movie with Nic Cage "Lord of War"

So, you are still trying to deflect blame from Obama?

I mean, we could have, you know, trained the Iraqi army to defend themselves instead of saying "Here you go, here's the instruction manual, we are counting on you, good luck" like Obama did.

You know, starting a job and finishing it instead of doing a half-assed work. And look where it got us now.

But I'm sure your boy in the WH is completely not at fault for it in your mind...

So, you are still trying to deflect blame from Obama?

I mean, we could have, you know, trained the Iraqi army to defend themselves instead of saying "Here you go, here's the instruction manual, we are counting on you, good luck" like Obama did.

You know, starting a job and finishing it instead of doing a half-assed work. And look where it got us now.

But I'm sure your boy in the WH is completely not at fault for it in your mind...

Sell arms to Assad so the country wouldn't have gone into civil war.

Nope, Obama tried to play some BS morality card by arming jihadists instead.

I already said Obama has blame to burden but you're deflecting.

Stay how longer in Iraq? We were already approaching diminishing returns on money spent there and no amount of shoring up a castle made of sand was going to stop the divides present in the country. The tides crept in.

Sunnis were being disenfranchised and the Shia gummint didn't give a ***. Iraqi soldiers aren't loyal to a nation, they're regional factionists and it showed when IS rolled in and kicked *** with gusto. Dropped their weapons and fled for their lives until the Americans came back in to avoid a complete embarrassment.

But yes, I'll accept your bizzare answer that we should have just taught them better as if the guys over there training soldiers were just phoning in the whole thing. The reality was we had to pull out and predictably Iraq went to ***shortly after.

Tell me accountant, how much more time? You're familiar with a cost/benefit analysis.

I agree that we should not have gone there in the first place, but it's better to make one mistake and see it all the way through than to make the same mistake and half-*** it, which creates a multitude of other mistakes.

Iraq occupation - Bush's fault.
Iraq withdrawal and leaving weapons there - Obama's fault.


Hell, if I was in charge, I wouldn't have gone there in the first place. I would have embargo Iraq like we did with Iran if I believed there were WMD there.

I agree that we should not have gone there in the first place, but it's better to make one mistake and see it all the way through than to make the same mistake and half-*** it, which creates a multitude of other mistakes.

Iraq occupation - Bush's fault.
Iraq withdrawal and leaving weapons there - Obama's fault.