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Yes Means Yes!
By Jetackuu 2014-09-29 14:23:07
It was merely an inquiry into the law, and well we see about where it stands. If one person can be guilty in that case due to failure to have the capacity to give consent then both parties should be guilty. That's not what the law states though. and it is an issue.
Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-09-29 14:23:09
It's nice to know that since my wife doesn't drink I have a lifetime of being repeatedly raped
Edit: can kinda see it being my fault though always.dressed like a trollop and such
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2014-09-29 14:24:46
Get drunk, have sex, claim rape,
sue the guygirl
sue the fraternitysorority
sue the school
???
profit
You know very well a guy wont be able to pull this off. Our courts just don't work that way.
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Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-09-29 14:25:44
It amazes me that you trust any person enough to *** em if they're all out for a mans wallet anyways lol...
Well, it's not just the guys. Some ladies have turned their litigious sights on deeper pockets like universities and fraternal organizations, nationally, and local by chapter. Which if you had read my previous posts you would have noticed I mentioned all that already.
All this does is to get those entities to strongly discourage that type of behavior. Why is that a bad thing? Sometimes those places are just as guilty as they try to cover it up. Either for a star athlete or to promote an environment that doesn't really exist on the campus.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-29 14:28:25
Unless you want to elaborate more in what the bill means about "incapacitated," using only the bill as a reference and cannot use outside sources to define the word. Your words. I did just that. The law defines what is meant by incapacitated. Accept you're wrong and move on. Obviously you have never read law before.
Laws and regulations have a definitions section if there is specific section to be defined as a specific item.
Here's a good example of one for you
{inb4 "Security Act of 1933 isn't a law" or some other weak excuse)
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-09-29 14:31:25
No need for a separate definitions section if you just finish reading the sentence in the bill.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-29 14:33:20
No need for a separate definitions section if you just finish reading the sentence in the bill. Explain how one's interpretation of how another person understands anything is specific and not broad.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-29 14:33:58
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »Get drunk, have sex, claim rape,
sue the guygirl
sue the fraternitysorority
sue the school
???
profit
You know very well a guy wont be able to pull this off. Our courts just don't work that way.
You mean our culture and courts are willfully ignorant and outright ignore that anyone can be raped, including strong alpha males?
yup.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-09-29 14:34:18
It's nice to know that since my wife doesn't drink I have a lifetime of being repeatedly raped
Edit: can kinda see it being my fault though always.dressed like a trollop and such You wouldn't be the first person to allege their spouse raped them.
Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-09-29 14:35:27
It's ok I like rape
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-09-29 14:40:34
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-09-29 14:44:19
I think this is all pretty obvious people. If someone is passed out and can't even speak they can't give consent. Why you would want to *** someone that is just laying there unconscious is beyond me anyways.
No where does it say is all it takes is a few drinks and a .08 on the breathalyzer (which you wouldn't be able to prove unless you got a cop right there anyways) that you're raping someone.
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By Cerberus.Drklighter 2014-09-29 14:45:52
Reminds me of my college days when I was the president of my fraternity. We had a freshman girl come to a party wasted and she passed out in our main floor bathtub. We had to close off that bathroom since she was in their puking, and once the party ended I let her friends sleep on our couch just outside the bathroom while she slept it off. Made sure all the doors to the house were locked too. The next day she was up and gone when I woke up. Turns out she started spreading rumors she was raped at our party and was going to sue our fraternity . . . even after I took care of her drunk a$$. Luckily, her friends put her in her place and nothing came of it. Never know what crazy drunk people will come up with, both men and women.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-29 14:46:04
I think this is all pretty obvious people. If someone is passed out and can't even speak they can't give consent. Why you would want to *** someone that is just laying there unconscious is beyond me anyways.
No where does it say is all it takes is a few drinks and a .08 on the breathalyzer (which you wouldn't be able to prove unless you got a cop right there anyways) that you're raping someone. I agree with you with that, but then again, isn't there a consent law in place before this one that pretty much said what you just did?
If this law is the consent law, then it was worded very badly and makes it open for legal interpretation. Which is never a good thing.
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By Fenrir.Squintik 2014-09-29 14:48:28
I think this is all pretty obvious people. If someone is passed out and can't even speak they can't give consent. Why you would want to *** someone that is just laying there unconscious is beyond me anyways.
No where does it say is all it takes is a few drinks and a .08 on the breathalyzer (which you wouldn't be able to prove unless you got a cop right there anyways) that you're raping someone.
"Excuse me miss, do you consent to not being raped? No? Alrighty then!"
By Jetackuu 2014-09-29 14:48:51
Or maybe it's about time we as a society drop the fascination with drunken college parties, and alcohol in general. I mean I'll have a drink now and again, I definitely couldn't do it on a daily basis.
Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-09-29 14:51:38
Not exactly trying to be cool just adding levity to a situation involving a law that if passed will be exploited heavily by any dumbass with regret on her mind
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-29 15:00:51
Or maybe it's about time we as a society drop the fascination with drunken college parties, and alcohol in general. I mean I'll have a drink now and again, I definitely couldn't do it on a daily basis.
It's partially a product of the puritanical culture we live in. When sex is taboo, people will gravitate to the possibility and dispense with judgement.
As much as I hate having the government in my bedroom, this law isn't particularly overreaching and seeks to more clearly define "consent". People will argue over how specific the definition is and how people will quantify it, but that's for courts to decide. The language isn't broad enough to warrant concern and not specific enough to remove court precedent.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-09-29 15:04:13
Levity needs to be added to discussion about rape? ok...
I wonder why the automatic conclusion by some is that this is only here to be exploited against rich men and instutions and isn't even thought of in the least as somethign that would help victims of rape? Is the only victim out there the rich male?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-29 15:05:28
Levity needs to be added to discussion about rape? ok...
I wonder why the automatic conclusion by some is that this is only here to be exploited against rich men and instutions and isn't even thought of in the least as somethign that would help victims of rape? Is the only victim out there the rich male? Who's saying that this is only against rich men?
Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-09-29 15:09:39
Never said anything about rich males being targets plenty of poor ones will get *** as well.
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Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-09-29 15:10:37
Levity needs to be added to discussion about rape? ok...
I wonder why the automatic conclusion by some is that this is only here to be exploited against rich men and instutions and isn't even thought of in the least as somethign that would help victims of rape? Is the only victim out there the rich male? Who's saying that this is only against rich men? Should I use your terminology instead and say wealthy person? Then only refer to woman as "rape bait"?
Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-09-29 15:11:24
Humans are scum no law will ever change that
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-29 15:12:35
Levity needs to be added to discussion about rape? ok...
I wonder why the automatic conclusion by some is that this is only here to be exploited against rich men and instutions and isn't even thought of in the least as somethign that would help victims of rape? Is the only victim out there the rich male?
As with anything that carries possible monetary gains, rape lawsuits are more likely aimed at a rich person, and males tend to be the most common targets by a large margin. The issue is that so many victims are instantly shamed or discredited as gold diggers, etc. It would be quite nice is the victim shaming at least held off until there is at least some indication of nefarious motives. The accused being rich is just a fact, not a motivation.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-29 15:13:06
Levity needs to be added to discussion about rape? ok...
I wonder why the automatic conclusion by some is that this is only here to be exploited against rich men and instutions and isn't even thought of in the least as somethign that would help victims of rape? Is the only victim out there the rich male? Who's saying that this is only against rich men? Should I use your terminology instead and say wealthy person? Then only refer to woman as "rape bait"? That was an example, and you know it.
I'm sure that men would act the exact same way when they come across women that they can take advantage of too.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-09-29 15:15:32
Never said anything about rich males being targets plenty of poor ones will get *** as well. Says who? You've shown nowhere in the new bill that someone only has to be above the .08 limit to be unable to give consent. So tell me oh wise one... how will all the men get their wallets ***? Also, please explain to us how the monetary payments in civil court are determined and awarded to the victim since you know so much about this and understand fully how guys are only going to get crucified by this and no one benefits.
Personally I won't lose any sleep over people who get charged over raping someone.
Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-09-29 15:16:47
Also yes levity in a rape discussion call it a coping mechanism or whatever the flavor of the month is in the psychology world
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-29 15:18:40
You've shown nowhere in the new bill that someone only has to be above the .08 limit to be unable to give consent. That's the problem though.
What is the cutoff between legal consent? Is it the legal limit of being drunk? Is it when you are passed out drunk? Is it some magic number in between?
That is the real problem with this bill....
Watch out for them drunk chicks!
Quote: SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — Gov. Jerry Brown announced Sunday that he has signed a bill that makes California the first in the nation to define when "yes means yes" and adopt requirements for colleges to follow when investigating sexual assault reports.
State lawmakers last month approved Senate Bill 967 by Sen. Kevin de Leon, D-Los Angeles, as states and universities across the U.S. are under pressure to change how they handle rape allegations. Campus sexual assault victims and women's advocacy groups delivered petitions to Brown's office on Sept. 16 urging him to sign the bill.
De Leon has said the legislation will begin a paradigm shift in how college campuses in California prevent and investigate sexual assaults. Rather than using the refrain "no means no," the definition of consent under the bill requires "an affirmative, conscious and voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity."
"Every student deserves a learning environment that is safe and healthy," De Leon said in a statement Sunday night. "The State of California will not allow schools to sweep rape cases under the rug. We've shifted the conversation regarding sexual assault to one of prevention, justice, and healing."
The legislation says silence or lack of resistance does not constitute consent. Under the bill, someone who is drunk, drugged, unconscious or asleep cannot grant consent.
Lawmakers say consent can be nonverbal, and universities with similar policies have outlined examples as a nod of the head or moving in closer to the person.
Advocates for victims of sexual assault supported the change as one that will provide consistency across campuses and challenge the notion that victims must have resisted assault to have valid complaints.
"This is amazing," said Savannah Badalich, a student at UCLA, where classes begin this week, and the founder of the group 7000 in Solidarity. "It's going to educate an entire new generation of students on what consent is and what consent is not ... that the absence of a no is not a yes."
The bill requires training for faculty reviewing complaints so that victims are not asked inappropriate questions when filing complaints. The bill also requires access to counseling, health care services and other resources.
When lawmakers were considering the bill, critics said it was overreaching and sends universities into murky legal waters. Some Republicans in the Assembly questioned whether statewide legislation is an appropriate venue to define sexual consent between two people.
There was no opposition from Republicans in the state Senate.
Gordon Finley, an adviser to the National Coalition for Men, wrote an editorial asking Brown not to sign the bill. He argued that "this campus rape crusade bill" presumes the guilt of the accused.
SB 967 applies to all California postsecondary schools, public and private, that receive state money for student financial aid. The California State University and University of California systems are backing the legislation after adopting similar consent standards this year.
UC President Janet Napolitano recently announced that the system will voluntarily establish an independent advocate to support sexual assault victims on every campus. An advocacy office also is a provision of the federal Survivor Outreach and Support Campus Act proposed by U.S. Sen. Barbara Boxer and Rep. Susan Davis of San Diego, both Democrats.
No reason to go to bars in California anymore! Over all though I agree with most of the bill.
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