Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-01 14:52:18
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Second, no, because the articles don't defy any court's ruling on abortion.

Sure they do, they advocate for further abortive measures that aren't covered by the ruling.
Do they perform them?

No but they advocate for them. Why should they be allowed to say such things in defiance of the law and maintain a tax exempt status?
Erm. You've heard of freedom of the press?

I know you're trying to parralel the university ruling, but this is not even a stretch, it's a leap beyond cray cray talk.

All political organizations that are tax exempt would also be breaking the law by advocating nee laws, abolishing laws, or modifying laws
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-07-01 14:53:01
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Churches are not automatically considered non-profit. They are automatically exempted from having to register with the IRS as a 501(c)(3) organization.

Because the IRS automatically recognizes them to be a non profit.

Splitting hairs again Kara.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-07-01 14:53:36
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Second, no, because the articles don't defy any court's ruling on abortion.

Sure they do, they advocate for further abortive measures that aren't covered by the ruling.
Do they perform them?

No but they advocate for them. Why should they be allowed to say such things in defiance of the law and maintain a tax exempt status?
Erm. You've heard of freedom of the press?

I know you're trying to parrallel the university ruling, but this is not even a stretch, it's a leap beyond cray cray talk.

All political organizations that are tax exempt would also be breaking the law by advocating nee laws, abolishing laws, or modifying laws
Have you heard of the free exercise of religion? I would hope so, it's worded in the exact same amendment.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-07-01 14:54:27
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Bahamut.Milamber said: »
So why exactly is the religion harmed by paying taxes? You don't get nice places to pray in? Isn't religion about belief? Why is belief harmed by paying taxes?
Well, Milamber, the answer to this is quite easy---
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-01 14:56:24
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Churches are not automatically considered non-profit. They are automatically exempted from having to register with the IRS as a 501(c)(3) organization.

Because the IRS automatically recognizes them to be a non profit.

Splitting hairs again Kara.
Congress enacted special exemptions for churches.

Special: as in different from all other tax exempt entities.

Tax exempt =/= non-profit
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 14:57:01
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Second, no, because the articles don't defy any court's ruling on abortion.

Sure they do, they advocate for further abortive measures that aren't covered by the ruling.
Do they perform them?

No but they advocate for them. Why should they be allowed to say such things in defiance of the law and maintain a tax exempt status?
Erm. You've heard of freedom of the press?

I know you're trying to parralel the university ruling, but this is not even a stretch, it's a leap beyond cray cray talk.

All political organizations that are tax exempt would also be breaking the law by advocating nee laws, abolishing laws, or modifying laws

You did not just say cray cray...son I'm disappointed. It must be the year 2011.
 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-01 14:59:51
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Have you heard of the free exercise of religion? I would hope so, it's worded in the exact same amendment.
Have you read the supreme court ruling you are trying to parralel?

It does allow churches to discriminate. It doesn't allow tax-exempt universities to keep tax exempt status, under very specific tax laws.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-07-01 15:01:09
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Remember, shoveling more cash into the money pit we call the U.S. government is all for the greater good, so long as the people paying are people we don't like. Everyone else deserves every tax break they can get.
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 15:02:29
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Remember when people didn't give a damn about tax exempt status. That was like 3 days ago !
 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-01 15:02:31
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fonewear said: »

You did not just say cray cray...son I'm disappointed. It must be the year 2011.
I blame this video. My daughter likes dancing to it, often

YouTube Video Placeholder
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 15:03:30
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I got 20 seconds into the video before I realize it was terrible !
 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-01 15:04:25
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fonewear said: »
I got 20 seconds into the video before I realize it was terrible !
Weirdo >.>

Their zombie one is better.
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-07-01 15:04:28
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Second, no, because the articles don't defy any court's ruling on abortion.

Sure they do, they advocate for further abortive measures that aren't covered by the ruling.
Do they perform them?

No but they advocate for them. Why should they be allowed to say such things in defiance of the law?
?
They enjoy a tax exempt status and yet they advocate against the law of the land. We should take away their special status because they don't align themselves with the law, shouldn't we? Or do we only save that assault for the catholic church because we have a bone to pick with Catholicism?

There's a significant difference between advocating for(or against) a medical procedure, and advocating for(or against) a group of people. Both from an ethical perspective, as well as a legal one.

How are those activities equivalent?
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-07-01 15:04:55
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Churches are not automatically considered non-profit. They are automatically exempted from having to register with the IRS as a 501(c)(3) organization.

Because the IRS automatically recognizes them to be a non profit.

Splitting hairs again Kara.
Congress enacted special exemptions for churches.

Special: as in different from all other tax exempt entities.

Tax exempt =/= non-profit

501(c)(3) on wiki

Quote:
A 501(c)(3) organization or 501c3 organization, also colloquially known as a 501c3, is a United States nonprofit organization that has been approved by the Internal Revenue Service to be tax-exempt under the terms of section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

Quote:
501(c)(3) exemptions apply to corporations organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, literary, or educational purposes, or for testing for public safety, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition, or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals.
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 15:05:41
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Zombie there is another dated reference !
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-07-01 15:05:50
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
So why exactly is the religion harmed by paying taxes? You don't get nice places to pray in? Isn't religion about belief? Why is belief harmed by paying taxes?
Well, Milamber, the answer to this is quite easy---
Well, it's the most valid answer so far, in that it's the only one.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-07-01 15:06:03
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Remember, shoveling more cash into the money pit we call the U.S. government is all for the greater good, so long as the people paying are people we don't like. Everyone else deserves every tax break they can get.
Bingo! Bring on the tyranny.
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By fonewear 2015-07-01 15:06:50
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Remember, shoveling more cash into the money pit we call the U.S. government is all for the greater good, so long as the people paying are people we don't like. Everyone else deserves every tax break they can get.
Bingo! Bring on the tyranny.

Who needs tyranny in government when I just come to FFXIAH to be told what to think !
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-01 15:07:31
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Churches are not automatically considered non-profit. They are automatically exempted from having to register with the IRS as a 501(c)(3) organization.

Because the IRS automatically recognizes them to be a non profit.

Splitting hairs again Kara.
Congress enacted special exemptions for churches.

Special: as in different from all other tax exempt entities.

Tax exempt =/= non-profit

501(c)(3) on wiki

Quote:
A 501(c)(3) organization or 501c3 organization, also colloquially known as a 501c3, is a United States nonprofit organization that has been approved by the Internal Revenue Service to be tax-exempt under the terms of section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

Quote:
501(c)(3) exemptions apply to corporations organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, literary, or educational purposes, or for testing for public safety, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition, or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals.
I posted this several pages ago, but again.

Official IRS living document on how religious organizations and churches are handled....in a special way
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-07-01 15:08:55
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And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

Mark 12:17

Tranlation: Pay your *** taxes.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-07-01 15:11:37
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

Mark 12:17

Tranlation: Pay your *** taxes.

You're clearly the best at tranlating.
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-01 15:14:40
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fonewear said: »
Remember when people didn't give a damn about tax exempt status. That was like 3 days ago !
Pretty sure I had a very similiar conversation with Ravael and KN about planned parenthood and churches getting federal funding guidelines along with their non-profit status awhile ago.

Yep, search function works.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-07-01 15:14:42
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Churches are not automatically considered non-profit. They are automatically exempted from having to register with the IRS as a 501(c)(3) organization.

Because the IRS automatically recognizes them to be a non profit.

Splitting hairs again Kara.
Congress enacted special exemptions for churches.

Special: as in different from all other tax exempt entities.

Tax exempt =/= non-profit

501(c)(3) on wiki

Quote:
A 501(c)(3) organization or 501c3 organization, also colloquially known as a 501c3, is a United States nonprofit organization that has been approved by the Internal Revenue Service to be tax-exempt under the terms of section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

Quote:
501(c)(3) exemptions apply to corporations organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, literary, or educational purposes, or for testing for public safety, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition, or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals.
I posted this several pages ago, but again.

Official IRS living document on how religious organizations and churches are handled....in a special way

Pg 3:

Quote:
Certain terms used throughout this publication—church, integrated auxiliary of a
church, minister, and IRC section 501(c)(3)— are defined in the
Glossary
on page 27.

Goto the glossary:

Quote:
IRC Section 501(c)(3).
IRC section 501(c)(3) describes
charitable organizations, including churches and religious
organizations
, which qualify for exemption from federal income
tax and generally are eligible to receive tax-deductible
contributions.

It's very clear that according to the IRS a church and a charitable organization fall under the same 501c3 category.
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-07-01 15:15:43
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

Mark 12:17

Tranlation: Pay your *** taxes.

You're clearly the best at tranlating.

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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-07-01 15:17:05
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Again we're no longer arguing that the activists WON'T go after churches, now we're arguing that they don't deserve their tax exempt status.
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-07-01 15:19:45
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
I see your pg3, and raise you a pg2:
PAGE2 - Introduction said:
This publication explains the benefits and the responsibilities under the federal tax system for churches and religious organizations. The term church is found, but not specifically defined, in the Internal Revenue Code (IRC). The term is
not used by all faiths; however, in an attempt to make this publication easy to read, we use it in its generic sense as a place of worship including, for example, mosques and synagogues. With the exception of the special rules for church audits,
the use of the term church throughout this publication also includes conventions and associations of churches as well as integrated auxiliaries of a church.

Because special tax rules apply to churches, it is important to distinguish churches from other religious organizations. Therefore, when this publication uses the term
“religious organizations,” it is not referring to churches or integrated auxiliaries.
Religious organizations that are not churches typically include nondenominational ministries, interdenominational and ecumenical organizations, and other entities whose principal purpose is the study or advancement of religion.
Churches and religious organizations may be legally organized in a variety of ways under state law, such as unincorporated associations, nonprofit corporations, corporations sole, and charitable trusts.
Certain terms used throughout this publication—church, integrated auxiliary of a church, minister, and IRC section 501(c)(3)— are defined in the Glossary on page 27.
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-07-01 15:23:58
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Again we're no longer arguing that the activists WON'T go after churches, now we're arguing that they don't deserve their tax exempt status.
The argument was that according gay marriages the same legal status as heterosexual marriage won't force churches to have to perform gay marriages.

They can certainly refrain from performing gay marriages. No one is forcing them to do that. However, that doesn't mean that there are zero consequences.

And the concept of having churches on parity with secular organizations with regards to taxation is far from a new concept.
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-01 15:27:34
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Pg 3:

Quote:
Certain terms used throughout this publication—church, integrated auxiliary of a
church, minister, and IRC section 501(c)(3)— are defined in the
Glossary
on page 27.

Goto the glossary:

Quote:
IRC Section 501(c)(3).
IRC section 501(c)(3) describes
charitable organizations, including churches and religious
organizations
, which qualify for exemption from federal income
tax and generally are eligible to receive tax-deductible
contributions.

It's very clear that according to the IRS a church and a charitable organization fall under the same 501c3 category.
Couldn't find it referred to as a nonprofit organization?

Again, first paragraph in the document states churches (specifically) and religious organizations are treated in a very special and different way under tax law that even other 501(c)(3) organizations are not.

They can only be audited under very certain circumstances, they do not have to file annual returns, and they are immediately granted tax exempt status. All of this being different from the other 501(c)(3) non-church/religious organizations.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-07-01 15:27:54
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Special tax rules apply to churches in the same manner that special tax rules apply to 501C3 non profit organizations. Because churches are clearly recognized as non profit organizations.

Bahamut.Milamber said: »
They can certainly refrain from performing gay marriages. No one is forcing them to do that. However, that doesn't mean that there are zero consequences.

The "intolerance" of the church shall not be tolerated.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-07-01 15:30:43
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KN isn't around. We're still talking about taxes.

*pulls at scalp*
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