SE Does See The Problem With Pld....

just stop ok

lol

You still can't discount those who do have those shields when making job adjustments. PLD is strong defensively as is, adding more defensive traits is both unneeded and approaching imbalanced. So if your basic run of the mill PLD is that powerful defensively, you may as well slap on an invincible trait for those who do have the shields. Plus SE have already taken a stance on not increasing PLDs offensive abilities, so to comment on your OP;


Yarite.

Also, even in VW you can manage without PLDs, as could you back at 75 cap when PLDs were pretty rampant. They need something to give them a definitive spot in parties, without killing popular lowman content, or breaking the game. More defense, a higher enmity cap, "pin" abilities etc, are not going to fix this.

X_X 3 minutes Sentinel is pretty ridiculous, don't you think?
Even without Aegis/Ochain PLD can mitigate dmg nicely already and with those shields you don't even need to do much anymore on most stuff to be decent.
With Sentinel and Reprisal you have 1.5mins of nice mitigation, throw in some Shield Bash, Flash and Rampart after that and you're golden until your timers are up again. Unless you fail using PLD's native skills, I don't see how a PLD can take normal dmg for the most part of a fight.
All that along with the right gear for the situation makes wanting more defensive abilities only seem very lazy to me.

As for offensive stats, it's certainly correct that PLD lacks those but it is a tanking job after all and no DD. The only thing a PLD can do there is to try to obtain apropriate offensice tools, such as weapons and /war if the situation allows, but it will never turn into a DD.
Again, wanting to do the same dmg as DDs is pretty stupid in my eyes. If you want the tank to DD, get a DD job to do it.
The only thing I can see making sense now for PLD is giving it fencer naturally, since it makes close to no sense for WARs atm and with PLD getting CDC and having had Vorpal Blade already, along with the fact that PLDs use shield most of the time, the only question would be "why not?".

But as I said in the earlier post already, I'm of the opinion that PLD is golden right now as it is and I don't see that any adjustments have to be done in order to make it any better. The game has to change and maybe also the players. If ppl have problems with tanking, they probably are doing something wrong (and I don't mean being on the wrong job =P), like trying to tank in DD gear because all Ochain PLD do so and you are stupid enough to adopt that when it's not apropriate or not having the right gear set(s) for the right situation(s) or simply can't play the job and have to make excuses that PLD itself is weak.

because RDM is a Fencer, they weild all epee swords, can not wield heavy swords, have relic armor called "Duelist," Empyrean armor called "Estoqueur," and specialize in sword ensorcellment... yet they do not get the job ability "Fencer." that is why not, because SE can be arbitrarily ridiculous in all instances.

I agree, with the most part of this. xD
However, RDM still has access to the good swords, which are not as easily to optain as weaker ones (apart from CDC swords) but they are there.
But yea, regarding Fencer, SE doesn't make much sense, once more.

All these ideas.... I don't know why we have to do SE's job for them.

I remember when if a PLD was in the party, you *didnt* have to worry about fluctuating hate.

SAM can WS nine ways to sunday and that's what they're for. Why does PLD now get to combat alliance members and all their new DD toys for the top of the hate list?

Enmity songs/spells? Cool, so we're supposed to have a BRD AND a SCH. I guess PLD's job is taking no damage, not holding hate.

Also, THFs are for NINs.

WTG, SE.

can't they just make atonement useful again by making it deal twice the damage based on your hate? It was capped at what 750 before? Hitting 1500 every WS would make up for our low damage output without sacrificing much of our tanking gear

1500 =/= 4~6k crit ws.

maybe if they made it 3k cap, but i highly doubt this would happen.

If you're talking about Abyssea (don't know why you would but ok), Vorpal/CDC say hi. Outside, 1500 is too much for anything you would even consider bringing a PLD to.

The problem is not PLD. The problem is Cure V.

Cure V restore 3.57X more HP than Cure III while generating same amount of hate because they changed enmity calculation on V to help WHM (Halved in Abyssea with MM and Allure atmas granting -50 Enmity). That make most DD class able to tank without having the WHM die in the process. That screwed long time established rules in FFXI in favor of an easy button.

The fix is to make Cure V generate more hate than Cure IV like it should

Actual: DD do damage and WHM cure V bomb non stop. Repeat.

Fix: DD do damage and WHM cure V bomb. Hate bounce, WHM die and DD Die. Next fight you need a job that control hate and take less damages as possible. Here come PLD and NIN.

[edit: Decided it's not worth the argument. Believe what you like. Cure V is not the problem.]

Thanks for correcting me I wasn't aware of that static enmity (Found info on wiki). But you confirm me that Cure V is broken since Cure III can generate more hate than Cure V. Exactly where I see the problem. A SCH with Rapture and Cure potency spamming Cure IV will get is *** kicked long before the WHM spamming is "static" enmity Cure V.

That make Cure V enabled healer the best solution. Since you almost can't get hate as WHM, now come the "why getting a PLD when you can get a DD".

Not quite. III and V will generate roughly the same amount (I haven't done the math since I got 50% potency, I just remember it being in the same ballpark). The real reason it's worse for hate is you have to spend 2 or 3 Cure IIIs to accomplish what one V can do, to say nothing of the cureskin factor.

Also, in case you forgot, or didn't play at the time, there was a LONG period of time where no one, anywhere, wanted a WHM. You couldn't get a party as one. It was RDM or SCH or even SMN but WHMs were not wanted in parties, period. Solace helped a lot, and Abyssea making V (and later VI) viable made WHM desirable again.

The real problem - the one that would need "solved" if anything was going to be solved in Abyssea - is that DDs do the job more efficiently. I take less damage as a MNK than I do as a PLD, in Abyssea. It isn't that I'm being curebombed. It's that I'm countering a lot of the damage, and what I'm not countering, I have PDT sets for (TP moves) and MDT sets (spells). I do this while I'm cranking out a lot more damage than my PLD could do (and I have an Excalibur, so I'm no slouch there).

Anyway, the tl;dr: you are solving the wrong problem. Voidwatch more or less addresses the real issues, for now. We'll see where things go in the future.

So curing for 300HP vs 1100HP for the same amount of hate doesn't look broken ? That get to the point that each health point you tank loose is cured back with 3.57X less enmity generation when using Cure V. Im not debating if a well equipped MNK is better than a well equipped PLD in term of overall damage taken reduction (PLD should be overall better and MNK situationaly better). But lost health point can now be gived back to tank with a lot less enmity disruption than before. Giving DD with defensive ability chance to tank and do much more damage a the same time.

I think SE should introduce Cure V to the other healers, BUT, take away one or more of its modifiers (think Sneak Attack from /THF) so that a WHM will still make significantly better use of it.