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Random Politics & Religion #00
By Altimaomega 2014-11-20 00:59:57
AO, what would you say if I were to tell you that there's a difference between weather and climate?
Do you actually ever contribute anything to these arguments, or do you just get a kick out of making passive-aggressive comments that often get ignored?
I say hey Rav handle my light work ^^
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 Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
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Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-11-20 01:10:33
er contribute anything to these arguments, or do you just get a kick out of making passive-aggressive comments that often get ignored?
I try not to anymore, but there's a pretty severe lack of scientific literacy going on here.
AO is describing the weather around him awhile everyone else is talking about the climate. Scientific literacy comes in the form of him not understanding that they're different things.
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 Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-11-20 01:11:12
Not by anyone who's opinion you should care about, but... Global climate is something that affects just about everything. Climate changes on any scale can upset entire ecosystems and disrupt industry. It's not hard for semi-educated people to make causal connections between anything and climate change even if it is at best a corollary or coincidental connection.
This constant emphasis on everything different being the polar opposite and must be wrong drives me nuts. People who question conclusions aren't the same as radical deniers any more than people who accept scientific consensus are tree-huggers.
I agree with the second paragraph, but the bolded part is what drives me nuts. Educated people and proper scientists should make it a point to not declare causality when there is at best a corollary or coincidental connection. Since you're someone who claims to always state opinions as opinions and facts as facts, I'd assume that you'd recognize that causality shouldn't be something that's declared all willy nilly just because it fits a narrative.
I agree, but I also am acutely aware of how much I don't know about many things, and I defer to experts. I wouldn't state their findings as fact, but things like oceanic temperature readings are easy for a layman to understand if they cared to.
Yeah, but making the leap from "ocean temperatures are rising" to "it's all our fault" and actually being able to declare causality with the backing of advanced statistics is a lot more involved than most people (even scientists) are willing to admit. Then again, I'm a tad jaded due to my line of work.
Well, here's my shorthand version. Temperatures are rising more quickly than at any time we know about that didn't correspond with some kind of major geologic event. We know that CO2 traps more heat than other atmospheric gasses and we know that we're pumping a lot of it out. I'm not saying that it's the base cause, but it is definitely contributory and anything we can do to lessen our impact on our surroundings should at least be explored.
The problem is that deniers are claiming the same certainty as tree-huggers with even less evidence and that debate keeps us from having the debate we should be having; how do we deal with climate change and our finite energy sources.
Wanna back that statement up a bit?
Pipe down, kiddo, the adults are talking.
More like tossing poo. Since the USA is one of the main CO2 producers, why are the temps not rising here? "You're not saying its the base cause but definitely contributing." Contributing to what? The extremely mild temperatures the USA has had and is continuing to have for the past 2 years. You cannot have it both ways. Uh, because a gas is not a solid? Localized production doesn't necessarily mean anything other than temporarily greater local concentrations? I'm sure this felt like a legitimate question, but it shows a fundimental lack of understanding of even some of the most basic physical principles. Also, yet again, USA != globe.
We know that CO2 traps more heat than other atmospheric gasses This is incorrect. CO2 is actually pretty poor when it comes to retaining heat, it simply happens to have peaks at particular temperatures where the other gases have relatively low performance.
Please enlighten my fundamental lack of understanding and describe temporarily to me. Is it 1yr? 2-3yrs? Seconds, minutes, hours, days, depending on what your concept of relative locality is?
The fundimental lack is the concepts of both diffusion and bulk flow. Bulk flow is likely the primary driver in this circumstance.
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By Altimaomega 2014-11-20 01:11:28
Since I'm talking Historic check this out.
Record Snow AND cold in Buffalo NY.
“The National Weather Service said Tuesday night that some areas of the Buffalo suburbs were approaching 76 inches of snow since Monday — that's the record for snowfall over a 24-hour period anywhere in the U.S. ever,”
http://www.jrn.com/now-trending/Record-snowfall-cripples-Buffalo-NY-claims-at-least-5-lives-283204501.html
Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-11-20 01:14:24
And it is record warm in other locatsions. What exactly is your point? Again, US != globe.
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Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-11-20 01:18:58
Ok, lets take a different approach.
Perform the calculation as to how much energy is required to raise 1L of water from 0 to 1C. Now do the same, with 1L of air. Feel free to show your work.
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By Altimaomega 2014-11-20 01:19:05
And it is record warm in other locatsions. What exactly is your point? Again, US != globe.
Post one of those locations please.
By Altimaomega 2014-11-20 01:21:33
Ok, lets take a different approach.
Perform the calculation as to how much energy is required to raise 1L of water from 0 to 1C. Now do the same, with 1L of air. Feel free to show your work.
Do I need to factor in the sun intensity at the time and take a barometer reading or just say screw it and ask for more government money when my test turns out wrong?
By Jetackuu 2014-11-20 01:23:58
Like I said: if you understood science, you wouldn't say what you say.
There's only one idiot here tonight, and well let's just say his intellect rather resembles his avatar.
Whats with your obsession with my avatar? Its like the 3rd time you've made fun of it and I really don't understand why...
Also, If you understood life you'd know that
How's business lately, AO?
Not to bad considering the Historic low temperatures and early snow.
has absolutely nothing to do with scientific literacy. Since you obviously have the aptitude of a stone I will spell it out for you.
It's kinda hard to chisel plow when the ground is frozen and covered in snow. Considering that I am ALWAYS chisel plowing this time of year I could really use some global warming about now.
It does since snow at this time of the year isn't "early" and these aren't even record low temps...
How many times do you need to be proven wrong before you shut up?
http://www.wnem.com/story/27410176/trust-steve-how-abnormal-are-these-temperatures
Quote: I am predicting a low of 9° tonight and a high of 23° for tomorrow. The coldest low ever recorded on Nov. 18 for Cincinnati is 12° way
back in 1880. The coldest the high temperature for the date is 26° set back in 1951 and that's before I was born so I guess it qualifies as a
long time ago too.
But wait there's more!!!
If we dip into the single digits tomorrow morning it will be the earliest it has ever been that cold in ALL CINCINNATI WEATHER HISTORY.
In addition if the high stays colder than 25° it will be the earliest in the season that we have gotten that cold.
As it now stands the earliest Cincinnati has dropped to single digits is Nov. 19. That was in 1880. The earliest the high temperature
did not make it to 25° was November 20 in 1937.
I'm in lower Michigan and it got down to 3*f and had a windchill of -15*f
When you actually prove me wrong, I'll lick the bottom of my shoe.
Let's see, Cincinnati, Oh... 11/18/2014
max temp 21, min 14, record high: 1985, 75F, low: 14f (it actually did hit the record low for that day, but that a trend it does not make).
But that's probably not counting such a long ago record as the article, and it's definitely not a trend of historic lows.
I wasn't speaking just for a single area anyway, and if I were it would have been for here, not over there.
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-11-20 01:25:31
Well even though I know you're not interested, it's pretty easy to look this stuff up
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+difference+between+weather+and+climate
And it's been awhile since physics class in high school, but I believe the answer is 1000 calories or 4184 joules for H20. I don't remember enough about it to do it for air.
By Jetackuu 2014-11-20 01:25:56
Ok, lets take a different approach.
Perform the calculation as to how much energy is required to raise 1L of water from 0 to 1C. Now do the same, with 1L of air. Feel free to show your work. Don't forget pure water too, not tap.
By Jetackuu 2014-11-20 01:26:34
Well even though I know you're not interested, it's pretty easy to look this stuff up
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+difference+between+weather+and+climate
And it's been awhile since physics class in high school, but I believe the answer is 1000 calories or 4184 joules for H20. I don't remember enough about it to do it for air. Really depends on where you sample your "air" and it's consistency...
By Altimaomega 2014-11-20 01:30:20
Like I said: if you understood science, you wouldn't say what you say.
There's only one idiot here tonight, and well let's just say his intellect rather resembles his avatar.
Whats with your obsession with my avatar? Its like the 3rd time you've made fun of it and I really don't understand why...
Also, If you understood life you'd know that
How's business lately, AO?
Not to bad considering the Historic low temperatures and early snow.
has absolutely nothing to do with scientific literacy. Since you obviously have the aptitude of a stone I will spell it out for you.
It's kinda hard to chisel plow when the ground is frozen and covered in snow. Considering that I am ALWAYS chisel plowing this time of year I could really use some global warming about now.
It does since snow at this time of the year isn't "early" and these aren't even record low temps...
How many times do you need to be proven wrong before you shut up?
http://www.wnem.com/story/27410176/trust-steve-how-abnormal-are-these-temperatures
Quote: I am predicting a low of 9° tonight and a high of 23° for tomorrow. The coldest low ever recorded on Nov. 18 for Cincinnati is 12° way
back in 1880. The coldest the high temperature for the date is 26° set back in 1951 and that's before I was born so I guess it qualifies as a
long time ago too.
But wait there's more!!!
If we dip into the single digits tomorrow morning it will be the earliest it has ever been that cold in ALL CINCINNATI WEATHER HISTORY.
In addition if the high stays colder than 25° it will be the earliest in the season that we have gotten that cold.
As it now stands the earliest Cincinnati has dropped to single digits is Nov. 19. That was in 1880. The earliest the high temperature
did not make it to 25° was November 20 in 1937.
I'm in lower Michigan and it got down to 3*f and had a windchill of -15*f
When you actually prove me wrong, I'll lick the bottom of my shoe.
Let's see, Cincinnati, Oh... 11/18/2014
max temp 21, min 14, record high: 1985, 75F, low: 14f ( it actually did hit the record low for that day, but that a trend it does not make).
But that's probably not counting such a long ago record as the article, and it's definitely not a trend of historic lows.
I wasn't speaking just for a single area anyway, and if I were it would have been for here, not over there.
Oh yea my bad I forgot I said trend..
How's business lately, AO?
Not to bad considering the Historic low temperatures and early snow.
We both know you should be eating that shoe not licking it.
By Jetackuu 2014-11-20 01:33:52
You didn't say trend anywhere in that quote, but it was implied with my original dissenting comment, so you post something about a record low temp for a single day, in one area.
Does the disconnect literally escape you?
By Altimaomega 2014-11-20 01:45:35
You didn't say trend anywhere in that quote, but it was implied with my original dissenting comment, so you post something about a record low temp for a single day, in one area.
Does the disconnect literally escape you?
Hahaha w/e dude your so full of it. I'd post a pic of someone backpedaling a bike but your all the sudden not worth my time anymore.
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Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-11-20 01:54:36
And it is record warm in other locatsions. What exactly is your point? Again, US != globe.
Post one of those locations please. (it's in Danish)
-an english article discussing October and all of 2014
-->in DK we've yet to get our first freeze. My roses have decided it's spring time and new blooms are coming up.
By Bloodrose 2014-11-20 01:55:26
But Kara, it's not anywhere in the US, so it obviously doesn't count.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-20 01:55:43
You didn't say trend anywhere in that quote, but it was implied with my original dissenting comment, so you post something about a record low temp for a single day, in one area.
Does the disconnect literally escape you?
Hahaha w/e dude your so full of it. I'd post a pic of someone backpedaling a bike but your all the sudden not worth my time anymore. That's ok, you were never worth anyone's time.
edit: also, InigoMontoya.jpg
By Jetackuu 2014-11-20 01:56:17
But Kara, it's not anywhere in the US, so it obviously doesn't count. Denmark? where is that? in space? What's that have to do with the Earth warming?
/sarcasm
Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-11-20 02:04:38
Ok, lets take a different approach.
Perform the calculation as to how much energy is required to raise 1L of water from 0 to 1C. Now do the same, with 1L of air. Feel free to show your work.
Do I need to factor in the sun intensity at the time and take a barometer reading or just say screw it and ask for more government money when my test turns out wrong? This answer doesn't make sense.....
By Jetackuu 2014-11-20 02:05:34
Ok, lets take a different approach.
Perform the calculation as to how much energy is required to raise 1L of water from 0 to 1C. Now do the same, with 1L of air. Feel free to show your work.
Do I need to factor in the sun intensity at the time and take a barometer reading or just say screw it and ask for more government money when my test turns out wrong? This answer doesn't make sense..... We've already established that he doesn't get it, you expected it to make sense?
To be fair though, I wouldn't want to do the calculation, depending on how many different elements we're talking about, as after all I am rather lazy.
Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-11-20 02:07:26
And it is record warm in other locatsions. What exactly is your point? Again, US != globe.
Post one of those locations please.
In particular, Denmark is on track with what will likely be the second warmest fall on record, and is on track for busting the record high yearly average temperature record.
Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-11-20 02:12:04
Ok, lets take a different approach.
Perform the calculation as to how much energy is required to raise 1L of water from 0 to 1C. Now do the same, with 1L of air. Feel free to show your work.
Do I need to factor in the sun intensity at the time and take a barometer reading or just say screw it and ask for more government money when my test turns out wrong? No, energy is energy. Assume standard atmosphere and pressuers. Assume no phase change is necesasry (e.g. liquid water at 0C).
If you want to calculate how much solar insolation is required based on the reflectivity/absorbtion rate of the relative materials feel free, but it isn't really necessary to consider for the point made. Plus, there is little evidence that you would be capable of actually performing the more complicated scenario, let alone correctly defining it. But if you wish to take that as a challenge, and learn what is necessary to prove me wrong by completing both the original task, and the further exercise, please, feel free. But in that case, you will need to post your work.
In any event, out for the work. Later all!
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-20 02:13:17
I think he thought you guys said to measure, not calculate.
Or he doesn't understand the difference.
edit: when you said "air" did you mean oxygen? or did you mean the mixture of gases that we breath?
edit2: I'm going to be irked if I have that problem on my final now...
By Altimaomega 2014-11-20 02:20:42
And it is record warm in other locatsions. What exactly is your point? Again, US != globe.
Post one of those locations please.
In particular, Denmark is on track with what will likely be the second warmest fall on record, and is on track for busting the record high yearly average temperature record.
Yup post more information that only goes back to 1997, because fail.
As for Denmark.. I cannot find a Record temp list any place. But i did find this. http://www.copenhagen.climatemps.com/
Come autumn/ fall temperatures decrease achieving average highs of 12.3°C (54.2°F) during the day and lows of 7°C (44.6°F) generally shortly after sunrise.
From the article I was given.
Quote: Meteorology institute DMI predicted last week that October 2014 would end with an average temperature right around 12C, putting it among the top three Octobers since weather recordings began in 1874. Looks average to me. And nowhere in that article does it say those high temps happened. Oct 27 was a Monday and they were predicting the highs to happen.
Please feel free to post a little better Proof than avg. temperatures almost being broken.. kthxbye.
Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-11-20 02:23:23
I think he thought you guys said to measure, not calculate.
Or he doesn't understand the difference.
edit: when you said "air" did you mean oxygen? or did you mean the mixture of gases that we breath? I'm not the engineer in the family but to get a quick overview
Heat, work, energy
By Altimaomega 2014-11-20 02:24:54
Ok, lets take a different approach.
Perform the calculation as to how much energy is required to raise 1L of water from 0 to 1C. Now do the same, with 1L of air. Feel free to show your work.
Do I need to factor in the sun intensity at the time and take a barometer reading or just say screw it and ask for more government money when my test turns out wrong? No, energy is energy. Assume standard atmosphere and pressuers. Assume no phase change is necesasry (e.g. liquid water at 0C).
If you want to calculate how much solar insolation is required based on the reflectivity/absorbtion rate of the relative materials feel free, but it isn't really necessary to consider for the point made. Plus, there is little evidence that you would be capable of actually performing the more complicated scenario, let alone correctly defining it. But if you wish to take that as a challenge, and learn what is necessary to prove me wrong by completing both the original task, and the further exercise, please, feel free. But in that case, you will need to post your work.
In any event, out for the work. Later all!
You can't even do this.
And it is record warm in other locatsions. What exactly is your point? Again, US != globe.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-20 02:27:24
And it is record warm in other locatsions. What exactly is your point? Again, US != globe.
Post one of those locations please.
In particular, Denmark is on track with what will likely be the second warmest fall on record, and is on track for busting the record high yearly average temperature record.
Yup post more information that only goes back to 1997, because fail.
As for Denmark.. I cannot find a Record temp list any place. But i did find this. http://www.copenhagen.climatemps.com/
Come autumn/ fall temperatures decrease achieving average highs of 12.3°C (54.2°F) during the day and lows of 7°C (44.6°F) generally shortly after sunrise.
From the article I was given.
Quote: Meteorology institute DMI predicted last week that October 2014 would end with an average temperature right around 12C, putting it among the top three Octobers since weather recordings began in 1874. Looks average to me. And nowhere in that article does it say those high temps happened. Oct 27 was a Monday and they were predicting the highs to happen.
Please feel free to post a little better Proof than avg. temperatures almost being broken.. kthxbye. ...
...
...wat
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-20 02:29:15
I think he thought you guys said to measure, not calculate.
Or he doesn't understand the difference.
edit: when you said "air" did you mean oxygen? or did you mean the mixture of gases that we breath? I'm not the engineer in the family but to get a quick overview
Heat, work, energycheckadaedits, it's fine, I'm way too lazy to do the math, I can do the energy calculation, and I'll be going over thermodynamics again soon enough...
basically
Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-11-20 02:30:04
And it is record warm in other locatsions. What exactly is your point? Again, US != globe.
Post one of those locations please.
In particular, Denmark is on track with what will likely be the second warmest fall on record, and is on track for busting the record high yearly average temperature record.
Yup post more information that only goes back to 1997, because fail.
As for Denmark.. I cannot find a Record temp list any place. But i did find this. http://www.copenhagen.climatemps.com/
Come autumn/ fall temperatures decrease achieving average highs of 12.3°C (54.2°F) during the day and lows of 7°C (44.6°F) generally shortly after sunrise.
From the article I was given.
Quote: Meteorology institute DMI predicted last week that October 2014 would end with an average temperature right around 12C, putting it among the top three Octobers since weather recordings began in 1874. Looks average to me. And nowhere in that article does it say those high temps happened Oct 27 was a Monday and they were predicting the highs to happen.
Please feel free to post a little better Proof than avg. temperatures almost being broken.. kthxbye. Um...
1. The article I posted in Danish lists the top temps for October
2. They are saying the average will be 12C for October 2014, not that it is on average 12C in october. The final average temp for october 2014 was 12.1C second hottest october on record.
Quote: Oktober 2014 fik en døgnmiddeltemperatur på 12,1°C for landet som helhed. Det er hele 3°C over normalen beregnet for perioden 1961-90 (9,1°C) og 2,7°C koldere end den seneste 10-års dekadeværdi på 9,4°C beregnet på perioden 2001-2010. Rough, quick translation:
October 2014 was 12.1c. This is 3c~ higher than normal October temperature. From 1961-1990 it was average 9.1c and 2001-2010 average was 9.4c
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