Campaign OPs Items: RMT?

Here's the problem, guys.

MMO companies are giving up on combating RMT. Korean MMO companies already have. So have all Japanese MMO companies except Square Enix, and they are saying at private industry functions that they may follow Korea's lead. Blizzard is examining the cost-benefit of their anti-RMT stuff. The industry is changing.

From a business perspective, a player that buys 1M gil from a 3rd party site, and a player who sits there and painstakingly makes the 1M gil themselves are the same. They are both $15/month. One could argue that the second player is actually a worse customer because they are sucking up bandwidth and content costs while they do it. Plus they *** so constantly about RMT that the company has to spend a metric asston of money on things like "special task forces" to keep them happy.

If a certain percentage of players are always going to RMT anyway, then trying to fight it fails for the same reason Prohibition failed in the 1920's. If RMT is inevitable, then it makes more sense for the game company to set up RMT themselves. Just like it's made more sense to legalize alcohol and just tax the hell out of it instead.

A player can either spend 100 hours camping for an item, or they can just give $20 to the game company and buy the item directly. That way, the game company can control the flow of RMT items and currency, plus they make the money instead of some Chinese sweatshop, which they can then invest back into the game. Because they can literally "print" gil, they can offer gil for cheaper than a Chinese sweatshop, and their game-provided RMT doesn't monopolize spawns and camps while they do it. There is no net negative effect on other players trying to get those items for themselves.

The result is more customers, less costly customers, more stable games, and more money for the company.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you don't like RMT, you should get used to it, because over the next few years, the next RMT advertisement you're going to see is from SquareEnix offering you gil directly.

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There is still a contingent of (predominantly American) MMO designers who believe that the appeal of MMO's is their egalitarian nature. That the only "currency" is time. MMO's take very little "skill" to play -- what they reward is time investment, information memorization, and repetitive efficiency. You get experience and items by investing your time, tempered with a slight bit of randomness.

That's why many NA MMO players feel so "violated" at the concept of RMT. They see it as reintroducing certain RL inequalities (money, power, etc) into an MMO world, to which they used to escape from those inequalities. They are worried that should they introduce company-supported RMT, many of those players who only play MMO's for the perceived egalitarian achievement will quit.

Unfortunately, market research and company earnings reports are showing that even if all those players quit, they will be replaced by a greater number of players who like RMT, therefore it's a net win for the industry.

I'm surprised SE hasn't done this already. Heck, they could actually be one of the RMT companies and that's how so many accounts get banned/suspended for buying gil.

If you understood inflation, you'd realize that if Square Enix printed gil to sell, prices would soar, and gil would become worthless.
Items that you cannot buy from NPC would skyrocket.
If they created billions of gil to sell, it devalues all the other gil in circulation.

The padded cap fishing bots created a massive influx of gil from NPC vendors, and inflated prices to ***, causing me and many other players to quit those some odd years ago when you would pay millions for basic stuff like haubergeon or scorpion harness.

While I disagree on your idea to print butt loads of gil you have some valid points on RMT crackdown. If it is cheaper to leave them there, *** the player base. Square enix employees do not motivate themselves by thinking how much fun their game is. They just want to make money, like everyone else in the world.

They need to seriously go after the gil BUYERS and not the sellers. Sellers are only half the problem. I guarantee you if you go after the buyers more then you go after the sellers, there would be no RMT. Players hear about 2,000 accounts a month that are banned for BUYING gil, they're guaranteed to think twice before they buy gil. When's the last time you heard SE go "This many accounts were banned for buying gil." Never.

But SE isn't about to spend extra money to ban players and lose the income from those accounts.

RMT are a benefit to SE. RMT keep buying login keys to get another account after it's been banned. If anything I think they break even when compared to the money that RMT are bringing in by buying accounts and the money it takes to combat RMT.

After reading every post it seems everyone has their own twist to the old "What is an RMT" If I sat and thought about it for a bit I suppose I would come up with something myself. It is what it is I guess and we don't have the power to stop it as much as it pains me to say it. As far as the debate goes someone on this post insulted ffxiah.com, commenting about the bannar ads and claiming the site "supported" RMT; I don't really need to say anything more the moderator said it best, I just wanted a little more attention on the topic anyway moving on.. to the moderator that mentioned it, I wouldn't mind a decent donation to your site to keep it going do you have another method beyond paypal? Actually does anyone else here have like 5 bucks to toss in too? I love this site I don't think I could play without it so how about it? I don't have a huge amount but a donation to my favorite web-site isn't going to kill me (my current illness might ; ;) but hey if there is anyone out there with a dollar or two extra let's do it. I know some people aren't so fortunate. So moderator any other way other than paypal let me know *^^;) Oh and in closing about RMTing it is what it is don't buy from websites and at least you can be comfortable in the knowledge that you are not at least adding to the problem. Sorry for the weird middle of the post direction change! Mari~

If SE should ever make the desiscion to sell gil for real money, I'd quit playing the same day they made the desiscion official. Whats the point of having an expensive item if you can just buy it with real money anyway? And would it even be expensive if that would be the case? I mean high priced items are expensive because they are rare, arent they? If anyone that can come up with $X can get a hold of that item it wouldnt be rare anymore, would it? Just a thought.

The remedy would be to make items paid for with real life currency non-transferable. Another option would be for developers to stop designing contrived methods of making us waste EXCESSIVE amounts of our time (good luck). One game game which isn't an MMOG but a MOG that I found very enjoyable was Monster Hunter. Although it isn't a time sink I did dpesnt about 700 hours playing it, but I wasn't compelled to arrange my schedule around playing it since the longest mission was only around 30+ minutes per run.

Seek and support games that don't promote time sinks if you care to drive developers to follow such a model that RMT can't exploit.

This is just sort of sad.... While I completely disagree with the whole gilbuying/gilselling idea, I also realize it is something that Square Enix itself cannot handle in its entirety, and neither can I. I'm just going to keep playing the game like I used to (when I can :< ), and if I can't buy the ***I want, I'll just farm crystals or something until I can.

I agree here, as well. SE?? Good Job??? /sigh.. nice.. all I can say to this now is FFXI will go to hell in a hand basket now.. and how do you make money now?? IF that is the case.. then everyone goes into competition for themselves, and has 2 competitors.. Real RMT AND.. SE RMT.. I know its looks like Over-heated Competition, but what do you do now?? Right??
Take matters into your hands and compete as well?

While everyone is in competeing mood... (i.e New player: excuse me.. Can I camp the VE pin pls?... SE and RL RMT: </laugh>

Its always been that way... its just gonna get more uglier!

Does this mean the end for ppl who enjoy MMO's? hmmm?

I believe in the Special Task Force.

Eve Online has one of the best setups; a player can purchase time cards with real money and sell them in-game. Likewise, a player who makes a lot of money in-game can buy time cards with ISK and never have to pay real money to play the game. There are still RMT of course, but the legitimate, CCP-run RMT sets a control for how much money they can actually make selling ISK. It has to be a cheaper ratio than selling time cards for ISK, so prices tend to stay fairly stable.

All I heard was "Hello, I buy gil, and this is why I think it should be allowed."

Gimp player is always gonna = gimp player. If you're too lazy to farm, then leave the game.

I find it funny that some of the player base thinks you aren't a real player if you don't spend 6 hours a day, 7 days a week farming gil on your own.

If buying gil is a bad thing, how is spending numerous hours doing absolutely nothing with your life to obtain an item in a video game while not doing something better with your life, any better?

For someone who makes $30/hour at work it is just common sense for them to buy gil and not "call in" to work today so they can farm for 8 hours.

Can they honestly give an answers to their arguement besides, "LOL YOU R BUYING GILZ!" ?? No.

I'm glad I'm beyond the point of actually needing to worry about gil anymore in this game though because honestly, paying $50 to save me a week of farming doesn't sound like a bad idea.

and Skyloki, how does buying gil mean you're a gimp player? I've seen some pretty damn gimp players who spend hours farming too ... coming from the 75DRG using a spiked necklace and a NQ amemet mantle is pretty odd too. I consider someone gimp who does not know how to play their jobs properly. Domara+1 instead of a Haub too on SAM ... shame.

you paid 50 bucks for the game and 15 dollars a month, and on top of that you would like to purchase a large amount of gil. seems like you spend too much cash on something that is designed to be a waste of time in the first place.

at the moment buying gil is "illegal," and until it is allowed by the company that owns the game, everyone that does so is basically a cheater. no one likes cheaters.

my account was hacked by some rmt *** who sold my ***to some rmt company, who then sold it to some douche bag who thinks his time is more important than mine.

you can do the same things in the game with or without the gil that you buy. you think that because you make more money at your job than in game that you deserve to have the things you want in game. the truth is the game and your life are not the same, if you dont have the time to be good in-game, then you just dont have that time to do so. no one is hating you for it, on the other hand a few ppl wont like you for buying gil.

and personally, if you make 30+/hour go hang out at a strip club or buy a boat. do something more fun than this game.

The point is that company-sponsored RMT puts Chinese Sweatshop RMT (IGE) out of business. SE doesn't have to pay any workers to farm gil, they don't need giant sweatshops and beds to house those workers, they don't need corporate taxes and international tariffs, etc. So SE can offer gil at prices so shockingly low, there will be no other room for third party RMT to compete, and they will go elsewhere. No more hacking, no more stealing accounts. There's no reason to, anymore.

The gil that the companies provide players does not come out of the economy, it does not monopolize spawns, etc. If anything, it would clear up spawns and camps for players who actually need the items and who don't want to pay for them. They can also limit the flow of gil and items into the economy by capping supply, tweaking prices, etc.

It has been proven time and time again, in countless market research surveys, that things like the Special Task Force do not in any way cut down on the number of people buying gil. So if it's inevitable anyway, wouldn't you rather it be done in a controlled and regulated way, with company oversight, and have the money spent go back into improving the game rather than shipped off to a bank account in China?

Right now, the only currency in these games is time. Quotes like "if you don't have the time to be good in-game" just highlight the underlying problem.

This tends to reward younger players without jobs, college students with lots of free time, etc. But it also shuts out a huge percentage of potential customers in the form of casual gamers (defined as less than 3-5 hours a week) and adults with jobs and families, etc. They get turned off by the fact that people with tons of time to invest in the game somehow think they are "better" or more valuable customers/players. This is why in more than 17 years of MMO history, the typical customer demographic still hasn't changed at all from one game to the next.

The problem is, casual gamers and adults with jobs and families tend to be better customers. They have more money, and they don't spend 80 hours/week in-game sucking up bandwidth and expensive content. MMO's are a business. The only goal of a business is to make more money for their shareholders. Never forget this.

Introducing company-sponsored RMT into FFXI at this point in its history would be disastrous. Once your primary customer base is comprised of people who buy into the notion that time investment should equal skill and accomplishment, you can't slight those people by changing your business model. Like the posts above say, they will simply quit, because you've already built a game around the illusion of perceived virtual value, and you can't devalue that and keep your customers.

But rest assured that future MMO's, including those by SquareEnix, are all trending towards launching with some kind of company-sponsored outlet for RMT.

I just wanna puke when I read this.

Makes me want to rethink my idea of fun gaming...

<hints about going back to the old days of going down to the basement with a bunch of friends, and playing either Atari, Coleco, or Intellivision back in the day...>

There were no Company sponsored ideas about RMT in those days...LOL, nor was there Online either.. hmm.. Safe gaming? <yes please!>

HAHA!

Oh brother...=/

Jaerik, your posts have been very insightful and well thought out.

Thanks. I've worked in MMO's and the games industry for about 10 years now, and this subject has been the topic of numerous industry panels and conferences over the past decade. So there's a lot to say. Books could probably be written on the subject expressing different views.

I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with the notion of company-sponsored RMT. I'm actually very torn. But the above posts were more of an explanation of where the industry seems to be going in its reasoning.

This is ridiculous.

Some of you don't even seem to realize that the people who sell gil only get it in the first place by cheating us out of things. Look at the list of accounts that were banned recently: enhanced character movement, repeating actions, using 3rd party tools to change ability timers, compromised accounts, etc.

The reason I(and I'm sure many others) play this game is to do some of the cool things from regular rpg's, except now I can do them with friends(both rl ones and online ones) instead of by myself. But it kinda sucks when you get cheated out of the experience by some dirtbag who refuses to play by the rules; and what makes it even worse is that he's not doing it for any other reason than to sell the gil or rare item to an even bigger dirtbag who wants the best but isn't willing to earn it.

Of course, I can already hear the replies that will say "I don't have the time to earn that stuff". So...that makes it ok to steal it from someone else? Look, I'd love to have an Ixion Cloak, but it's probably never going to happen. I have work, university, etc, so I only have time to spend a couple of hours online a few times a week. And in that time, I want to get the most of it, and it's not fair to be cheated out of having fun by these guys.

Gil buyers are the equivalent of Barry Bonds and Ben Johnson, and sellers are just the guys who stick the juiced up steroid needles in their ***.

I really dont think some of you understand what Jaerik is saying. I keep seeing people complain about the negative effects of RMT. They camp everything all the time, not giving others a fair chance, etc. That is the exact reason companies like SE want to sell their own gil. When or if SE starts selling gil themselves, don't picture GM's camping all the NM's. lol SE will sell gil that they create, putting the real "in-game" RMTs out of business. In effect, there will be no more massive camping and farming by sweatshops. Therefore giving all of us the fair chance to camp the NM's ourselves.

Also pointed out, this money that (those who do choose to buy gil) will go directly back into the game, which could finance; more update's, more content, better experiences and so on. In-game RMT's will exist b/c (those who choose to) will buy the gil that they spend our time farming. I say our time, b/c when we find time to play and see that some no talking, no linkshell player is doing what we want to, it is "our" play time.
So while SE sells their own gil, they are really satisfying both sides of the table. Those that want to pay, can. Those that want to earn, have a better chance. (for 2 reasons) Some ppl that might want it, can buy it. No in-game RMT's are overcamping it anymore.

When people buy gil, they aren't cheating anyone out of anything. They just didn't earn it. Obviously SE can not do away with RMT's. This is affecting all of us more then anything else, because they are spending our money in a losing war trying to get rid of RMT. They are spending that much less money on improving this game. Anyways, my point is, ppl are buying gil anyways and have been for a long time. If it could easily be fixed, it would be done by now. It can be fixed, while even improving gameplay for everyone, if SE decides to sell the gil themselves.

I hope if that happens no one leaves the game. You will be making the wrong point by doing so.

@Tavlov

I don't think you understand that some people feel purchasing gil is just plain cheating. Under no circumstances do I think RMT is acceptable.

I'm curious how SE selling gil would prevent existing RMT companies from competing with them. Also, if SE placed a cap on the amount of gil that can be purchased on each server/month to prevent mass inflation what is to stop RMT companies from buying it to resell at higher prices?

There already are books about it >.>

http://www.amazon.com/Play-Money-Millions-Trading-Virtual/dp/0465015360/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227221445&sr=8-16

I state a fact, and I get attacked, I love it. If you don't understand that buying gil is cheating, reguardless of how you try and justify it, well buying gear gives you an unfair advantage over players who do not, plain and simple.

As for commenting on my spike necklace, if you don't understand why a spike is better than say, a Chiv chain for Penta Thrust, then you're obviously not a DRG, which is fine. The amemet was on there cause I was away from the game for a bit, and had to rebuild, I have a +1 now.
Now looking at my SAM, I have both Domaru+1 and Hauby. I use both. Domaru is nice to solo in, since it can give you TP when you get hit. It also has 1 more STR than Hauby. Again, you must not be a SAM either, or you simply don't know how the game works (modifyers, latents, hidden, extra).

Now back to my original thought. If you can't spend a few hours a week on this game to farm, this game is not for you. You should try WoW, it's for the more casual gamer such as yourself.
If SE started to sell their own gil, or items, then the people with money would buy and buy and buy. The people without, would be left far behind. It would also cheapen the game and make it far easier than it's supposed to be.

I never said it wasnt cheating. With SE's standards, buying gil is cheating. What i meant was, I don't understand how people feel they are getting cheated.

For the record, I do not condone RMT. It is illegal, not just by SE's standards either. SE selling gil would not, however, be considered RMT.

I think in-game RMT's (i.e. characters') are the real problem, not the ppl buying gil. If someone really wants to buy gil rather then earn something in the game, then thats on them and how they will look. I like earning my own stuff, its what makes the game more fun, even if i don't have a lot of time to play, which I don't. (played for more then 2 years, still no 75) I think the only way to take away the in-game RMT's is to one-up them.

SE can kill sweatshop RMT. It can only work with a combination of doing 2 things though. SE sells gil, and ban's the competition. Sweatshops can not compete with SE, b/c they are people trying to get paid. SE doesnt have to pay anyone to farm for gil 8+ hours a day. They just create it. SE wouldn't even have to hire any new people to introduce something like that.

I would rather see the RMT players go away, at the cost of SE selling gil. I would honestly like to see none of this at all, but that obviously is not happening.

I am not trying to upset anyone. This is my opinion. I realize people will not agree with it. But if there was a better way to deal with RMT..... think some company out there would be doing that?

Because you would have to be HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to buy gil for more from a 3rd party than for cheap from SE directly lol

Don't forget the majority of gil=buyers are noobs anyway, so theirs no reaosn to worry about getting "left behind". You can't buy experience, people who are pimped out yet suck will only suffer ridicule for not living up to the perceptions of skill one would possess with such gear.

In the end though we shouldn't really be worried about this since there is nothing more valuable than the skill and experience we earn. I don;t mind the idea of haivng less people to camp against to try and get a drop, but then again I don;t really like the idea of having to wait a few hours for a mob to pop to get an item i want. Timed spawns only attract RMT to make sure players can't get the item so they can manipulate prices. This brings us back to my earlier point about the design of these games.

Camping NMs:

Spawn times.
drop rates.
competition.

Endgame events:

Spawn times.
drop rates.
competition.
Require alliances.
Have to wait your turn for drops.
Have to wait for event days.
Have to find a shell that accomodates youre availability or shape youre life to be able to go on these runs.

I have played 2 games in the past that after playing MMOs for a few years realized they are way better than MMOs despite having smaller instances and only being 4 player. Phantasy Star Online and Monster Hunter.

these 2 games were pick up and play and weren't huge time-sinks. They were action oriented so you didn't have to deal with flimsy targeting mecchanisms when you wanted to attack a mob or heal an ally. They both had pretty original themes and weren't cookie-cutter themed games like ffxi or WoW. Most items had appropriate amounts of value value rather than 90% of the items being garbage.

YOu didn;t have to worry too much about being left being in level or skill since it wasn't too difficult forming groups since you only needed 3 other people to play with, or LESS if you didn't suck at the game and/or were high enough level. one of the only things wrong with these games were they didn't have very extensive economies but it wasn't a big deal the games were fun and practically no OBJECTIVE flaws to them. I'd like to see more of what made these games great transfer to more present and future games.

I'm trying to figure the positve effects RMT have in Tavlov's statement.
- Higher prices
- you pay for some kid to continue working as a slave or with meger pay.

Nope, can't think of any atm. Yes RMT has been a problem on MMOs. Honestly it's not just gil sellers but the buyers too. Personally I liked what GW did with it. You bought gil = account terminated. Now granted you can buy another ID but that $200 you spent on gold now cost you close to double that amount when you add in the new ID and the time to reattain those previous lvls.

Both problems should be tackled, not just one.

You're assuming that SE would sell for the lowest possible price. Also, I said RMT could sell for higher if SE had a cap on how much they would sell. Say SE would only sell 100M/month on each server to limit inflation. RMT companies could buy all 100M as soon as it is available and then resell it for higher prices. If you want to buy gil that month you'd have to buy from the 3rd party at their prices.

Sorry if my other post was unclear.

And there's my main point. FF:O, by choosing to be an RMT-free game, has created a system whereby time investment = the only source of value. At this point, FF:O is a player economy that places value in time investment, and that perceived investment is why people continue to play.

If SE-sponsored RMT were introduced now, they would lose a great deal of existing players, because they would see the ability to shortcut their own perceived accomplishments as devaluing their "worth." This is why SE has chosen the (mostly ineffective but good for PR) Task Force system. They really have little choice in the matter. FF:O simply wasn't designed that way.

However, in the future, the message is fairly clear. By creating a game where copious time investment is the only means of advancement, you are severely limiting your potential customer base. You have a relatively small, very stable demographic, but you cannot expand beyond that. Ever.

You can point to non-RMT games like WoW as an example, and go "Dude, they have 10 million subscribers! How is that not successful?"

But then I turn around and point to company-sponsored RMT games like Korean MMO's. At one point in time, 2/3's of the entire population of South Korea was playing Lineage.

In light of that fact, it's pretty hard to tell your shareholders, as a company, "We're going to pick the option that gets us 500,000 paying customers instead of the one that gives us 50,000,000, because of some arbitrary morality judgment we're making about RMT." Your shareholders will nod, smile, fire your ***, and hire someone that doesn't have those moral qualms to replace you.

Look, guys, here's the thing. You may have hundreds of hours to sink camping Mee Deggi or whatever, but I don't. If I could simply buy the items I wanted from Square directly, you bet your *** I would--why would I ever want to contend with the ten or more campers/scripters/botters at an NM pop, when I could take ten easily-obtained, real-world dollars and buy the item?

You can still add value to an MMO that allows players to outfit their characters without "effort", by adding more interesting and replayable features. Square can't realistically do this, because about 70% of the game's "content" involves repetitively farming low drop rate items to outfit your character; if you took out the farming and grind, you'd basically have a game you could beat in half an hour and quit. The template for a money-based MMO requires a totally different design philosophy, which FFXI isn't based on.