Section 215 Can Supersede 1st Amendment Rights

A new FISC opinion was released today, redacted but some interesting information can be seen.

FISA Court Twists PATRIOT Act To Pretend It's Okay To Spy On Americans Based On Their Constitutionally Protected Speech





FISC OK's Section 215 investigation of Americans, despite First Amendment

You're a [redacted] son of a [redacted][redacted].

I'd feign outrage, but its the USPATRIOT Act. Our rights have been systematically dismantled (and occasionally actually protected once in a great while) for over 200 years, but that one specific act probably has the largest body count when it comes to stripping Americans of our Constitution.

It's thought-crime. As I've been saying for years, ever since we actually got the crime rate under control and it started reducing, law enforcement and their supporters have been working overtime to find new ways to detain, prosecute, and convict people so as to justify their continued existence. Which would be fine if cops actually had a reputation for being reasonable and just instead of being a bunch of power-mad bullies with small *** and related inferiority complexes.

As much as I've in the past argued against blanket statements regarding authorities, recently I've seen more and more instances of some shady ***at many levels and I'm actually coming around to this way of thinking. I'll still defend individuals and the purpose and stated mission of said authorities.

But their hiring practices and screenings really need some work.

So much systemic fearmongering these days as an excuse to strip people of their rights.

The combination of this crap and militarized police is a bad combination.

Also, we are all on watch lists now.

Pretty sure I always have been. I just view them as quiet friends and hope they laugh at my stupid jokes.

Individuals are rarely the problem, anyhow. You can go down the list of Congressmen and Senators who voted in favor of the PATRIOT Act and find that a considerable proportion of them have publicly expressed regret about doing so (some even being honest enough to say they never read the encyclopedia-sized thing). With that knowledge, do you go knock on Senator Smith's door and demand reparations in blood or are you better off going after the group-think and blind consensus pandering that was the ultimate cause?

Everyone wants to think that evil is perpetrated by a Mr. Burns sort of person, a megalomaniac systematically devoted to sowing misery. The reality is that people are collectively dumber than cattle and about as easily led, even highly-educated people get reduced when part of a large group. Compare with how Congress has been hypocritically complaining about being caught in the same surveillance nets that found out you have a weird obsession with Labrador retrievers and that your (hypothetical) son's teacher is planning a scuba trip for the Christmas break.

America is one major terrorist attack away from suspending the Constitution and a full blown police state / designation of an emperor. Opposition will be labeled insurrectionists and waterboarded with impunity.

Believe it!

Aye. That's what I mean, I guess.

I've had a few breakdowns in my thought barriers between what "should be" and "is" in the past few months.

Can't say I care for them all, but it is what it is.

Just gotta take life on a case-by-case basis.

Again, you mean? That's practically what happened 13 years ago, though perhaps people were a little too shell-shocked to notice.

There was very little change in life where I was.

However, I was on a college campus in rural Pennsylvania.

I mean, yeah there was all the legislation and crap and even then we knew it was bad.

But...eh. Little practically changed in day-to-day life, anyhow.

I was about 20 miles away from you in Pittsburgh proper. My day-to-day doesn't need to be affected for a major change to be acknowledged, though. Hell, much as I hate to Godwin this up, Germany was glad with their new Chancellor since he actually got people back to work and got food back on plates. Truly bad ideas aren't like sharks: you don't get the benefit of many fins thrusting out of the water.

9/11 was a catalyst for a "we will protect you by violating your rights" windup that led to wars that have sprung forth more wars and a weary nation looking for a leader to fix our problems amidst a general disengagement from politics. Another attack of that tier would be crippling for us. It'd show all our fears realized again.

Congress is useless/bought, The Presidents hands are tied, we're warring literally everywhere, income inequality is only getting worse, the nations people being spied on all over, torture now something readily beckoned for by hardliners, executive orders being royal decrees, routine sidestepping of the constitution, secret courts, prisons, censorship of the interwebs etc.

It sounds like a wonderful oppurtunity for Americans to back authoritarian rule and rid ourselves of this shackled democratic system. It's not like people vote anyway.

Yeah but Pittsburgh and Indiana are very, very different.

That said, I more kinda meant that, at least to me, it's not that I and those around me didn't notice, but...I dunno. Maybe we were just of an age where it was like, "Ain't that some ***?" And we didn't figure there was much more we could do.

It was clear that there were rights being encroached upon in the name of "protect from terror", but what we were supposed to do about it other than vaguely rallying against...something?...was the problem.

The country all but lined up for Iraq and when some media voices stood up against it I remember the violent patriotism decrying them as unamerican and traitors.

Just imagine that again but post-9/11.

I remember even before 9/11 though a lot of that ***had started. The fear mongering, the "we'll just be limiting this...FOR YOUR SAFETY..."

I guess to me, 9/11 was more proof none of that ***worked or was really helpful, but they were just going to keep expanding because they could.

Some day our government will reach critical mass and all hell is going to break loose.

This is gonna be tltr and rather boring but kinda funny and is an excellent analogy of people acting like sheep after 9/11.

I remember going to get gas and diesel the afternoon of 9/11, because I had to get 50 acres of hay baled. Two gas stations in the closest town 10 mile away fro me, one on each side of town. The first gas station literally had a line starting 3/4 of a mile out of town. So Instead of waiting in that line I U-turned and took the first road that would take me around the town to the other gas station. This station had a mile long line heading out of town, but you could take a side road and bypass the line to get into town. So I get into town and turn too that station, the road lets out about 100 feet from the station entrance. Turn on my blinker to head back out of town so the line of cars would let me turn. I turn and head out of town passing the first station entrance.

This station btw has two sets of pumps the main set out front with 8 pumps and the Diesel and kerosene pump out back. What every single car didn't know/realize is that by those 2 pumps are 2 gasoline pumps. As I drove by the first entrance I noticed NOT ONE CAR WAS AT THOSE PUMPS! I drove in the second drive pulled up to the diesel and gas pumps got 60gal of diesel and 40gal of gas.
As I pulled out with all my containers full of fuel some people actually noticed and a line started to form...

My trip to town took a few min longer than normal that day. However if I was a panicked sheep like EVERYONE else it would have took hours. Its even funnier that two days after this I went back to town and not one car was in line for gas.

Its funny now but at the time people was freaking out and nobody knew what was gonna happen in the next hour let alone the next day or week.

The USA before 9/11 was a totally different place. Its pretty sad that the people who flew those planes into everything actually accomplish some of what they intended.

As for the government reaching critical mass, will have to see how it goes on Nov.7. before pitch forks need to be sharpened and torches lit.

Frankly I don't think it matters one whit who is in office. The lines between parties are so drastic that nothing is getting done, and the amount of various fear mongering tactics from both party extremes is staggering.

So, what have we learned today?

If you don't like an act, alter it to do something it was not created to do, and blame the authors of the act for creating it in the first place.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: everyone who's signed the Patriot act (doesn't matter which time) is a traitor to the nation, and deserves to be treated as such.

edit: before anyone starts crying, I mean from both political sides of the proverbial fence, fascist dickwads.

You're making this political when it's not.

The Patriot Act itself was a violation. Twisting it further is just variation on a theme.

The fact that the Patriot act STILL exist today and in a much BROADER form is the reason to make it political. When 9/11 happened nearly everyone wanted SOMETHING to be done. Government is not something you let have free rein on ANYTHING. But the sheeple that 9/11 created didn't care what was enacted or created they just wanted to make sure another 9/11 never happened.

Did the government screw up and pass a unconstitutional law? yes
Did the people of the USA ask for it at the time? yes
Should it at the very least have had an expiration date? YES

But as with everything the government does, once they start they can't stop and only make it worse.

Sorry. Poor words on my part. Making it partisan*

And for the record, I was against it at the time, too.

I'm always against giving the government more power for exactly these Reasons.

I was neither against nor for the Patriot Act at the time of passage.

I still am neither for nor against it.

The federal government has access to more information that you can realize prior to the Patriot Act, it just makes it legal when it comes out in the open, like it did.

I have this problem where, in my head, at least SOME people do things for altruistic reasons, so I like to give the benefit of the doubt. And then it turns out that, no. Nothing altruistic here. Just more people shitting on everyone they can for their own position.

If any of you ever have wondered why I swing so wildly sometimes between happy happy hippie thoughts and authoritarian steel fist of justice...

So I sit patiently, argue with others (and myself sometimes) on internet message boards, and wait for the lizard men to take over the Earth.