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 Siren.Ihm
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By Siren.Ihm 2012-06-14 07:44:13
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So, what are peoples thoughts on the Herja's Fork then?

DMG:141 Delay:492
Accuracy+10 Attack+10
"Quadruple Attack"+3%
"Store TP"+5


I quickly entered them into the DRG Calc thats flying around and it seems it may actually beat OAT by a bit, but I'm not quite with it enough right now so I'm sure I messed something up.

Whats everyone elses thoughts on this? New best DRG Polearm goes?
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2012-06-14 07:54:59
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Ugh. I finally get around to building an OAT...at least I didn't turn the mirrors/sand in yet. Maybe I can pass them off onto some poor sucker.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Kouryuu
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By Quetzalcoatl.Kouryuu 2012-06-14 08:11:13
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I want this, if it's the same model as Vork. i want it double.
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 Odin.Sheelay
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By Odin.Sheelay 2012-06-14 08:12:57
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It is indeed the same model
 Bahamut.Kujah
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By Bahamut.Kujah 2012-06-14 08:15:36
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Can I see your math on this please against OAT?

Not convinced the 30 base damage is going to beat out the OAT% and ws frequency of OAT pole.

The Stp on this at least makes 5-hit easier, would only need to add hagneia stone to my set, but im really unsure how this would parse against OAT.
 Bahamut.Phix
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By Bahamut.Phix 2012-06-14 08:15:54
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whats this drg dmg calc ?
 Bahamut.Atoreis
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By Bahamut.Atoreis 2012-06-14 08:21:03
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Ugh. I finally get around to building an OAT...at least I didn't turn the mirrors/sand in yet. Maybe I can pass them off onto some poor sucker.

I dont think its good idea to hold on something because some day you will get something better. We even know how many ppl are needed to beat new Odin? Dont know if you are in some big LS but even assuming you are and your LS will do new Ein you are probably still need to lot/bid against few ppl. If you plan to do it with shout group you can probably expect 10% drop rate and 15ppl lotting against you.
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By Bahamut.Atoreis 2012-06-14 08:23:46
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Bahamut.Kujah said: »
Can I see your math on this please against OAT?

Not convinced the 30 base damage is going to beat out the OAT% and ws frequency of OAT pole.

The Stp on this at least makes 5-hit easier, would only need to add hagneia stone to my set, but im really unsure how this would parse against OAT.

Send me the set you use with OAT Kuj. I want to check something.
 Bahamut.Kujah
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By Bahamut.Kujah 2012-06-14 08:28:52
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TP set:

 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2012-06-14 08:34:25
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Bahamut.Atoreis said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Ugh. I finally get around to building an OAT...at least I didn't turn the mirrors/sand in yet. Maybe I can pass them off onto some poor sucker.
I dont think its good idea to hold on something because some day you will get something better. We even know how many ppl are needed to beat new Odin? Dont know if you are in some big LS but even assuming you are and your LS will do new Ein you are probably still need to lot/bid against few ppl. If you plan to do it with shout group you can probably expect 10% drop rate and 15ppl lotting against you.

I play dragoon in my free time and in the occasional pickup Voidwatch. I am only just now getting around to making the OAT because I've been busy doing more important things.

The time I spend playing dragoon vs. the time I spend getting gear for it is already out of whack.

So yes. It is a good idea to not do the OAT if this is better because it is a waste of my time to spend the time doing the kills/Bastion/VNMs to finish the OAT if I won't use it more than a few times before I eventually get this.
 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2012-06-14 08:35:45
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Siren.Ihm said: »
So, what are peoples thoughts on the Herja's Fork then? DMG:141 Delay:492 Accuracy+10 Attack+10 "Quadruple Attack"+3% "Store TP"+5 I quickly entered them into the DRG Calc thats flying around and it seems it may actually beat OAT by a bit, but I'm not quite with it enough right now so I'm sure I messed something up. Whats everyone elses thoughts on this? New best DRG Polearm goes?

Was this dat mined somewhere? Is the new valhalla and hofud out there too? Sorry for being all newbie but I'm at work and can't really look for myself.
 Bismarck.Disguise
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By Bismarck.Disguise 2012-06-14 08:38:42
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Ragnarok.Ashman said: »
Siren.Ihm said: »
So, what are peoples thoughts on the Herja's Fork then? DMG:141 Delay:492 Accuracy+10 Attack+10 "Quadruple Attack"+3% "Store TP"+5 I quickly entered them into the DRG Calc thats flying around and it seems it may actually beat OAT by a bit, but I'm not quite with it enough right now so I'm sure I messed something up. Whats everyone elses thoughts on this? New best DRG Polearm goes?

Was this dat mined somewhere? Is the new valhalla and hofud out there too? Sorry for being all newbie but I'm at work and can't really look for myself.
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/June_2012_Version_Update_Changes
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 Bahamut.Phix
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By Bahamut.Phix 2012-06-14 08:43:23
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Ragnarok.Ashman said: »
Siren.Ihm said: »
So, what are peoples thoughts on the Herja's Fork then? DMG:141 Delay:492 Accuracy+10 Attack+10 "Quadruple Attack"+3% "Store TP"+5 I quickly entered them into the DRG Calc thats flying around and it seems it may actually beat OAT by a bit, but I'm not quite with it enough right now so I'm sure I messed something up. Whats everyone elses thoughts on this? New best DRG Polearm goes?

Was this dat mined somewhere? Is the new valhalla and hofud out there too? Sorry for being all newbie but I'm at work and can't really look for myself.
New valhala <3
 Siren.Ihm
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By Siren.Ihm 2012-06-14 08:55:39
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Bahamut.Kujah said: »
Can I see your math on this please against OAT?

Not convinced the 30 base damage is going to beat out the OAT% and ws frequency of OAT pole.

The Stp on this at least makes 5-hit easier, would only need to add hagneia stone to my set, but im really unsure how this would parse against OAT.

Your TP set isn't far off what I use really.



When calculating the Herja, I didn't optimise the set at all for the lower delay, I just threw it ontop of my current gear.

This is the DPS calc I used https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0A0wGYYRRdaZmMzNjllODQtN2E3NC00OWYzLWI3YmMtNTZmZTRlODdkMTkz/edit

It's missing lots of gear though, so you'll have to add it manually.
 Odin.Sheelay
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By Odin.Sheelay 2012-06-14 09:14:03
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Laeradr Breastplate and Helm just made me sad :(

Breastplate: Def 80 HP +100 Damage taken -11% Enmity +9 Slow +2&

Helm: Def 50 HP +75 VIT +13 Damage taken -8% Slow +2%
 Siren.Thoraeon
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By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-06-14 09:14:51
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Odin.Sheelay said: »
Laeradr Breastplate and Helm just made me sad :(

Breastplate: Def 80 HP +100 Damage taken -11% Enmity +9 Slow +2&

Helm: Def 50 HP +75 VIT +13 Damage taken -8% Slow +2%

It's Valhalla gear +1, what were you expecting?
 Odin.Sheelay
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By Odin.Sheelay 2012-06-14 09:16:47
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Siren.Thoraeon said: »
Odin.Sheelay said: »
Laeradr Breastplate and Helm just made me sad :(

Breastplate: Def 80 HP +100 Damage taken -11% Enmity +9 Slow +2&

Helm: Def 50 HP +75 VIT +13 Damage taken -8% Slow +2%

It's Valhalla gear +1, what were you expecting?

Something less actually, given how freaking long it took me to get Mekira! I won't be getting any of these new pieces anyway so I guess I'll be just fine.
 Bahamut.Atoreis
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By Bahamut.Atoreis 2012-06-14 09:19:48
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If my math is right thats 1.51 hit per round.

Head: Phorcys
Body: Enif Corazza

DEF:75 HP+45 MP+45 Accuracy+23
"Quadruple Attack"+2% Haste+3%
hands: Lancer
Ammo: Hegneia

With those changes its (counting everything):
-11 STR
-4 DEX
-31 ATT (counting STR)
+22 ACC (counting DEX)
-12% hit per round (yes only that. This set is 1.34 hit per round)
-15 delay


DOT:
Lets assume fSTR is around 10 for Herja and 13 for Chauve

Herja: 151*1.34*60/492= 24.67
Chauve: 123*1.51*60/507=21.97


Now I will need Stardiver set to check WS increase please post :)

EDIT: Forgot to plug in -delay for counting hit per round. The right values are.

9% higher hit per round with Chauve which is around 7% higher WS frequency (pretty low advantage)
10% higher melee DOT with Herja over Chauve
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 Bahamut.Kujah
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By Bahamut.Kujah 2012-06-14 09:31:04
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Stardiver set:



Heca feet are 3 STR 3 Atk 3 PA skill augment

Also @Ihm you're tping in too much haste and too much Stp for 5hit! Also do you use Drakes over Stardiver with that grip?
 Fenrir.Eneas
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By Fenrir.Eneas 2012-06-14 09:31:41
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Odin.Sheelay said: »
Siren.Thoraeon said: »
Odin.Sheelay said: »
Laeradr Breastplate and Helm just made me sad :(

Breastplate: Def 80 HP +100 Damage taken -11% Enmity +9 Slow +2&

Helm: Def 50 HP +75 VIT +13 Damage taken -8% Slow +2%

It's Valhalla gear +1, what were you expecting?

Something less actually, given how freaking long it took me to get Mekira! I won't be getting any of these new pieces anyway so I guess I'll be just fine.

but Valhalla looks cool :P
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By Ophannus 2012-06-14 09:37:50
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Lower WS frequency, less TP and weaker average jumps but probably stronger WS by far, if anything it's probably a halfway decent zerging weapon(does it beat STR magian? It looks like it beats Rhongo up to Rhongo(95).
 Odin.Sheelay
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By Odin.Sheelay 2012-06-14 09:40:11
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Fenrir.Eneas said: »
Odin.Sheelay said: »
Siren.Thoraeon said: »
Odin.Sheelay said: »
Laeradr Breastplate and Helm just made me sad :(

Breastplate: Def 80 HP +100 Damage taken -11% Enmity +9 Slow +2&

Helm: Def 50 HP +75 VIT +13 Damage taken -8% Slow +2%

It's Valhalla gear +1, what were you expecting?

Something less actually, given how freaking long it took me to get Mekira! I won't be getting any of these new pieces anyway so I guess I'll be just fine.

but Valhalla looks cool :P

I'll get Valhalla FTLooks then. /derail end
 Bahamut.Atoreis
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By Bahamut.Atoreis 2012-06-14 09:40:59
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Ophannus said: »
Lower WS frequency, less TP and weaker average jumps but probably stronger WS by far, if anything it's probably a halfway decent zerging weapon(does it beat STR magian? It looks like it beats Rhongo up to Rhongo(95).

Have you even read my post?

Its only ~7-8% less WS frequency.
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By Ophannus 2012-06-14 09:43:40
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How come most magian weapons get a better skin for the 99? (95 Soulsaber is a Longsword model but at 99 becomes a Gold Sword model, 95 PDT axe is silverish but the 99 Astofolo becomes black, why couldn't the 95 Corsesca turn into Valkryie Fork at 99 or at least a an Engetsuto)
 Bahamut.Atoreis
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By Bahamut.Atoreis 2012-06-14 09:48:22
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Chauve with Kujah set vs Herja with set I posted

+10% melee DOT
+15% WS dmg
-~7-8% WS frequency


Imo OAT have no chance.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2012-06-14 09:49:07
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Ophannus said: »
How come most magian weapons get a better skin for the 99? (95 Soulsaber is a Longsword model but at 99 becomes a Gold Sword model, 95 PDT axe is silverish but the 99 Astofolo becomes black, why couldn't the 95 Corsesca turn into Valkryie Fork at 99 or at least a an Engetsuto)

It's a bit off topic, but I agree...sort of.

99 swords should have kept the look. I prefer the cermet model to the gold/iron model.

OAT polearm should have never been a couse model given that it's drg-only. Really should have been a lance or at least a spear. Not enough good polearms use the spear model. =(
 Bahamut.Kujah
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By Bahamut.Kujah 2012-06-14 09:50:45
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Wow I never saw this coming Ato, thanks for the math, time to spam Einherjar in RMT!

Edit: Ato, is this assuming 5hit with capped haste? (ie my tp set + hangeia stone)
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By Ophannus 2012-06-14 09:51:49
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Does the 7-8% WS frequency account for TP from Jumps and also the damage from the 45% OAT rate on Jumps? Pretty sure motenten calculated the WS rate to be way more effectual than 7-8%.
 Bahamut.Atoreis
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By Bahamut.Atoreis 2012-06-14 10:13:17
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Impact to WS frequency for jumps is very hard to caluclate because its pretty much completely dependent of how much haste you have.

As for damage... please post jump set XD
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By Ophannus 2012-06-14 10:17:47
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I usually Jump in as much DA/TA/QA gear as possible(although DA's effect is diminished because of OAT, it still lends itself to a higher frequency of a double hit Jump which is a free ws)

Chauvre/Pole/XXX/Thew Bomb
Sceamol/Ganesha/Brutal/Ghillie
AF3/Lancer+2/Oneiros/Mars
Atheling/Windbuffet/Calmecac/Phorcys

(for soul jump I use Phorcys Feet, for spirit jump I use af3) Again I focus on multi hit jumps in order to get a 2-3 hit on Jump for that free instant WS.
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