Ul'dahn Longbow vs Crab Bow vs Verdant Shortbow?

marcosens

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By marcosens 2011-08-13 14:17:49

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would Crab Bow+3 be better than those 2 new ARC weapons?

Filtiarne

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By Filtiarne 2011-08-13 14:28:19

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+1 adds 5% to base stats,
+2 adds 10%
+3 adds 15%

FFXIV rounds up, if you get a result of 157.1 you actually get 158

Look the items up and do some math.

marcosens

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By marcosens 2011-08-13 14:31:51

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Thanks!

Sylph.Kiaru

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By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-13 14:34:17

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Do stats matter in ff14 yet? When I played before my level1 bow with level1 arrows did as much damage as my crab bow +3 with silver arrows on NM's.

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By Filtiarne 2011-08-13 14:38:42

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NM's have insanely high defense thus the damage from a +3 crab to a rank one will only be slightly noticeable with your normal attacks, maybe 30 compared to 20, but with WS's and BR you will notice a significant difference

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By Calemero 2011-08-13 16:36:28

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at the moment:

CB+3 is better than Verdant / Ul'dahn.
Verdant is better than CB/CB+1 but comparable to CB+2 (due to the 3.5sec Delay)

Have not tested Ul'dahn vs Verdant because lol @ spending company points right now.

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slipispsycho

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By slipispsycho 2011-08-13 21:55:41

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Sylph.Kiaru said:

Do stats matter in ff14 yet? When I played before my level1 bow with level1 arrows did as much damage as my crab bow +3 with silver arrows on NM's.

Which NMs are you talking about? Are you talking about like Kokoroon or Great Buffalo..? Huge difference.

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By Calemero 2011-08-13 22:22:52

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I wouldn't call CB+3 vs VS a wash just yet. This is a preliminary example that I just did 2 seconds ago on two Lv.37 Pterocs:

VERDANT SHORTBOW

Quote:

Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 1069 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 1079 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 1093 points of damage.

Critical! Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 1109 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 959 points of damage.
Critical! Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 1170 points of damage.

—————————————————————————————————————–
CRAB BOW +3

Quote:

Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron for 1146 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron for 1127 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron for 1110 points of damage.

Critical! Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 1312 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 1138 points of damage.
Critical! Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 1255 points of damage.

Will post back later with more results...

Edit: at first glance the damage difference is obvious but we need to contain the samples into something that can be lolpatchwerked i.e. a straight tank n spank like Great Buffalo ect. Increasing the sample size by 10-20 fold doing the same rotation within a set period of time (with a stopwatch). Going to work on this soon.

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By SirSteven 2011-08-13 22:55:41

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Calemero said:

I wouldn't call CB+3 vs VS a wash just yet. This is a preliminary example that I just did 2 seconds ago on two Lv.37 Pterocs:

VERDANT SHORTBOW

Quote:

Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 1069 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 1079 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 1093 points of damage.

Critical! Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 1109 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 959 points of damage.
Critical! Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 1170 points of damage.

—————————————————————————————————————–
CRAB BOW +3

Quote:

Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron for 1146 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron for 1127 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron for 1110 points of damage.

Critical! Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 1312 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 1138 points of damage.
Critical! Your Light Shot hits the pteroc matron from the rear for 1255 points of damage.

Will post back later with more results...

Edit: at first glance the damage difference is obvious but we need to contain the samples into something that can be lolpatchwerked i.e. a straight tank n spank like Great Buffalo ect. Increasing the sample size by 10-20 fold doing the same rotation within a set period of time (with a stopwatch). Going to work on this soon.

Nudes for you if you post results. (I'm a women, ignore my character name)

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By Calemero 2011-08-13 23:54:18

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kind of wish you were a guy actually =/

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Clydey

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By Clydey 2011-08-14 08:10:39

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Also, we should be looking at the percentage difference, as opposed to the difference in actual damage. I think Peng is doing more testing, but right now I feel confident that the Verdant is even better than the +3. Of course, all this might change in time.

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By Calemero 2011-08-14 11:06:41

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Preliminary raw tests done today: Lv.58 Grass Raptors from Boulder Downs Coerthas. Testing Crab Bow +3 vs. Verdant Shortbow with x5 fights each lasting 90 seconds. Base DEX/STR for this raw testing because stats are never going to be an accurate way to test until they fix them in 1.19. Evades and Auto Attack are filtered out of the chatlog data.

Gear

Quote:

Crab Bow +3/Verdant Shortbow
Silver Arrows
Helm of The Lone Knight
Mythril Choker +1
Brigand's Acton
Penance
Venerer's Bracers
Tarred Leather Trousers +1
Bladedancer's Jackboots
x4 Brass Rings +1

Verdant Shortbow Test

Quote:

Total Shots = 135
Total Damage = 16,168
Critical Rate = 11.42%
Miss Rate = 24.44%
136 Attack, 200 Accuracy, 26 STR, 26 DEX

Spoiler Alert! Click to view.

Critical! Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 273 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 208 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 214 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 211 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 208 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 206 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 209 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 211 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 206 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 219 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 217 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 214 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 209 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 198 points of damage.
Critical! Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 257 points of damage.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Critical! Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 280 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 206 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 203 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 203 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 214 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 203 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 200 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 198 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 200 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 214 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 212 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 196 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 219 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 214 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 198 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 204 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 204 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 212 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 209 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 214 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 191 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 208 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 219 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 193 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 208 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 198 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 198 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 212 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 208 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 208 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 181 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 212 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 201 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 201 points of damage.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 201 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 214 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 209 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 219 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 209 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 214 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 203 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 212 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 217 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 219 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 203 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 200 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 216 points of damage.
Critical! Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 260 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 214 points of damage.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 198 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 203 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 201 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 208 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 212 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 216 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 200 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 206 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 198 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 198 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 217 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 194 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 206 points of damage.

Crab Bow +3 Test

Quote:

Total Shots = 105
Total Damage = 16,492
Critical Rate = 5.71%
Miss Rate = 15.23%
155 Attack, 208 Accuracy, 26 STR, 23 DEX

Spoiler Alert! Click to view.

Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 233 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 213 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Critical! Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 283 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 220 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 222 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 238 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 240 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 209 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 222 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 225 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 217 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 225 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 238 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 213 points of damage.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 235 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 209 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor from the rear for 240 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor from the rear for 235 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 217 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 236 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 228 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 219 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 213 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 240 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 235 points of damage.
Critical! Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 297 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 224 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 217 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 235 points of damage.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 236 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 222 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 240 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 222 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 209 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 235 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 222 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 228 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 219 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 236 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 211 points of damage.
Critical! Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 288 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 224 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 228 points of damage.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 230 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 224 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 227 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 236 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 224 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 222 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 222 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 236 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 225 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 228 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 224 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 220 points of damage.
Critical! Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 310 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 230 points of damage.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 235 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 211 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 240 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 211 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 228 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 238 points of damage.
Your Light Shot misses the grass raptor.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 227 points of damage.
Critical! Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 305 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 213 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 240 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 235 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 240 points of damage.
Critical! Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 302 points of damage.
Your Light Shot hits the grass raptor for 211 points of damage.

Going to be testing buffed raw/WS damage next. Will post later when I have the data.

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By 2011-08-14 12:50:59

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Leviathan.Bozo

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By Leviathan.Bozo 2011-09-06 23:50:09

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what about ul'dahn vs crab bow +2

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By Calemero 2011-09-07 01:01:58

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lol ul'dahn

MalPal

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By MalPal 2011-09-07 03:31:00

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Carraway Author said: »

Even with that example, which favors the Crab Bow +3 due to the exaggerated effect of base atk on lower rank targets:

17 Light Shots per minute (rounded down) @ 1079 avg dmg inc crits = 18343 dmg

15 Light Shots per minute @ 1181 avg dmg inc crits = 17715 dmg

Interesting, but who does pure light shots ? It seems that if you do pure light shot maybe its a "wash" with crab bow plus +3, but lets be real! It's not a wash because if you mix things up witch is what 99 percent of what people do, especially if you do battle reg, you do less damage and miss more! Who wants that!? ><; (i hate missing) plus short bows have less range right? And after you use trifurcate you still have to wait to stack your arrows anyways! Don't let verdants fool you :P

IMPO CB3> OC3> VS if you think about how your going to use it with some logic!

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By MalPal 2011-09-07 04:26:21

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Leviathan.Bozo said: »

what about ul'dahn vs crab bow +2

Oak Composite +3 would be nice for you ^^

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By Calemero 2011-09-07 05:23:39

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MalPal said: »

Carraway Author said: »

Even with that example, which favors the Crab Bow +3 due to the exaggerated effect of base atk on lower rank targets:

17 Light Shots per minute (rounded down) @ 1079 avg dmg inc crits = 18343 dmg

15 Light Shots per minute @ 1181 avg dmg inc crits = 17715 dmg

Interesting, but who does pure light shots ? It seems that if you do pure light shot maybe its a "wash" with crab bow plus +3, but lets be real! It's not a wash because if you mix things up witch is what 99 percent of what people do, especially if you do battle reg, you do less damage and miss more! Who wants that!? ><; (i hate missing) plus short bows have less range right? And after you use trifurcate you still have to wait to stack your arrows anyways! Don't let verdants fool you :P

Light Shot cooldowns are not interrupted by anything else you do in your rotation. Current weaponskill damage on CB3 vs VS is also minimal and the extra Light Shots you get out of VS make up for it anyways. It has been parsed and it has been tested time and time again. The only way CB3 consistently out damages VS in a timed fight is when you are applying Light Shots to BR's.

BR's are now going to be gone (temp) in 1.19 as well as the stats being changed on HQ items. Even if the stats are 10% and not 5% on HQ items that still puts VS over the HQ CB. Download LrParser yourself and test it on Ogre and you will see the difference. CB vs VS discussion is just beating a dead horse.

Quote:

IMPO CB3> OC3> VS if you think about how your going to use it with some logic!

This is just plain silly.

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By MalPal 2011-09-07 09:30:37

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Grats on you VS add campaign!!!

Pay up Nooblets

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By AquaRegia 2011-09-07 09:59:05

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My LS archer never pulls hate with CB3 on ogre, but once he got Verdant bow, he is constantly in red and had to stop once in a while.

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By MalPal 2011-09-07 10:01:35

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Someone mention on other thread you cannot materia rare items how does that work? Could this be another draw back of VS?

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By Fairy.Charitey 2011-09-07 10:10:54

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AquaRegia said: »

My LS archer never pulls hate with CB3 on ogre, but once he got Verdant bow, he is constantly in red and had to stop once in a while.

So you archer forgot to use chameleon at the proper time, and your tank sucks.

I wouldn't blame the bow.

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By AquaRegia 2011-09-07 10:22:51

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Fairy.Charitey said: »

AquaRegia said: »

My LS archer never pulls hate with CB3 on ogre, but once he got Verdant bow, he is constantly in red and had to stop once in a while.

So you archer forgot to use chameleon at the proper time, and your tank sucks.

I wouldn't blame the bow.

The tank does suck (or rather, lazy), but it's still apple to apple comparison and Verdant is pulling more hate.

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By Calemero 2011-09-07 10:29:56

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MalPal said: »

Someone mention on other thread you cannot materia rare items how does that work? Could this be another draw back of VS?

some items cannot be turned INTO Materia via the Spiritbond system (most likely R/EX items) but that doesn't mean that can't have Materia attached to them. Just another PLUS for the VS.

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By MalPal 2011-09-07 10:43:38

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I read somewhere Spiritbond is based on affinity to item! So, i wonder if affinity starts on update or it is being calculated already. Considering i am the third owner of the first crab bow +3 for my server but have had possession of it since December naturally, i would have high affinity to it, so if it does get nurf maybe it can be some nifty materia ^^

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By Calemero 2011-09-07 10:49:15

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pretty sure it will start on update.

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By Xenor 2011-09-07 15:22:06

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No one sits and spams light Shot every time it is up. That half second delay it has over Crab Bow +3 is often wasted while you're busy using a buff or setting up a regimen.

The speed runs I've done in the Darkhold involved almost pure ARC Trifurcate regimens, Crab Bow +3 will win every time there. Sure regimens are going away for now but even then you won't be spamming Light Shot every time it's available.

Verdant Bow is just for e-peen or farming situations where you are spamming Light Shot and don't need the extra damage from a Crab Bow +3.

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By Calemero 2011-09-07 15:27:06

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Xenor said: »

No one sits and spams light Shot every time it is up. That half second delay it has over Crab Bow +3 is often wasted while you're busy using a buff or setting up a regimen.

The speed runs I've done in the Darkhold involved almost pure ARC Trifurcate regimens, Crab Bow +3 will win every time there. Sure regimens are going away for now but even then you won't be spamming Light Shot every time it's available.

Verdant Bow is just for e-peen or farming situations where you are spamming Light Shot and don't need the extra damage from a Crab Bow +3.

pretty sure it was stated 30 posts up that CB+3 wins over VS in Light Shot BRs but is a wash otherwise (which has been parsed time and time and time again). But thank you for reiterating that point.

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