Drg Or Drk. Wut You Think?

Orite, he's into that. D:

Responded to you last page sag, in case you missed it.

Wait, what? And if you mean MP, DRG is more MP-efficient than DRK and seriously should not ever be running out of MP when soloing. If you're spamming so hard even Ethereal Earring can't keep up (bare minimum Refresh a DRG soloist should have, along with maybe drinks. Sigil/Sanction/FoV Refresh and/or Ares' Cuirass are icing on the cake), you're dead already. Plus, DRK wouldn't survive that encounter either.


Sic the wyvern on it and run, something I've done before myself. You're also completely ignoring the fact that I can do those 600 HP recovers in a mater of seconds, back to back. Again, and again, and again.


Except DRG won't have hate to begin with on anything that lasts long enough to justify a dedicated tank because of jumps.


If I was talking party only, why the hell would I have brought up Healing Breath? /mage is for soloing. And DRGburn parties, but eh.

"Except DRG won't have hate to begin with on anything that lasts long enough to justify a dedicated tank because of jumps."

This, merited high jump -50% hate at 2 min 30 sec recast and super jump is 3 min base and -100% hate. Between the 2, drg wins survivability be default, because they should never have hate.

quote 1: um, third eye seigan sleep II run away? uh i think DRK would survive lol.

quote 2: ok so lets say you can heal back to back every few seconds, now I was under the impression healing breath was a wyvern WS, and wyverns gain roughly 10TP per hit. Also (correct me if im wrong here) healing breath is only trigerred under 1/3hp roughly, hate from say a mega boss or a VT/IT hard hitting mob will destroy you before you get close to spamming healing breath, coz you have no shadows so you are taking hit after hit, not to mention mobs that use double/triple attack.

Again, DRK/SAM can use shadows stuns bashes to prevent ANY hits for the best part of a minute if done properly, by which time an enfeeble is in place and your away, OR in the case of PT stick up spikes and buy the tank some time to draw hate back.

quote 3: And when your not in a PT? And if we look at meripos, if its any good the killing should be so fast that you should be able to survive the duration of the fight with seigan third eye maybe take one hit if you mistime seigans, you should not need to rely on the tank or you are not using seigans properly. Again DRK can stun and bash and by more time if the DRK needed downtime for third eyes.

33% base, 50% hp w/ AF helm

Also, my point still stands on the sole sushi drgs >.>

So you can only use WS every 2-3mins lol or you draw hate and get eaten when your third eyes are down(assuming the DRGs WS damage is up to scratch). What about outside PT situation? -hate is pointless there?

quote 1: um, third eye seigan sleep II run away? uh i think DRK would survive lol.

as far as this goes, if we're talking vs /mage its not even a competition. Drg/mage can solo hagun ENM (which I've never heard of a drk doing) and in pt situation we go back to the jumps deal and drg never having hate to begin with.

No, you can ws more than 2-3 mins. But when you can remove such a large amount of hate every 2-3 mins and the tank's hate isn't dropping liek that, you should be able to ws freely and not worry about pulling hate.

As for outside of pt situation /mage kills drk for solo'ing.

And if you are caught off guard and need to SURVIVE? hence the term survivabitlity, being able to be caught by something unexpected and come out alive?

DRG simply does not have the versatility of DRK, surely you cannot deny this. DRG is limited in its abilities by subjob whereas DRK is not.

Sure, and if Sleep doesn't land? A DRG could survive the encounter face-to-face. Nobody gives a ***what you can survive on the run as there's all kinds of back and forth arguments over that, let's stick to what you could actually stay alive against in a fight.


And this is why you really shouldn't be trying to argue this, you don't know what you're talking about. Wyvern TP adds to the potency but is not required to trigger a breath. You can build a max HP trigger set to force a higher trigger, plus the AF helm raises that to 50%. So think more like 50-70% of your max HP when it fires. Also, Tacos.


DRG never has hate to begin with. That's the very definition of survivability, DRK will take far more damage than a DRG ever would. High damage will eventually overpower a DRK in a protracted fight, whereas a DRG simply pops a Healing Breath every now and then and keeps going. If your TE goes down early it could kill you. The only thing that's gonna take down a solo DRG is wyvern-killing AoEs, which would be potent enough that a DRK couldn't solo it either.


You should be able to fulltime Hasso in merits anyway, but meripos are a lol test for survivability.


And DRG never has to worry about TE downtime to begin with thanks to jumps. Is there an echo in here?

I jus thought off something, if you were to take DRG and DRK and cut off any subjobs, focus only on the jobs that are in question here, this would be the best way to come to a conclusion as to which job is better.

coughdrkcough

As far as solo goes, drk is gonna be in that caught off situation position far more than drg will be. Again, go take drk to sheep in antlion's clothing and see how long they "SURVIVE". That being said, drg can 2hr at any point and get all their wyvern's hp. Yes, it's only 2hrs, but again, drg is not gonna be in the situation anywhere nearly as often as drk would be, you shouldn't need the 2hr at all tbh, but its still there for emergency.

Also, going to assume that you just agree on my point w/ the sushi drgs since you haven't bothered to respond to that yet.

What? Since when does TP go out the window with jumps?


DRG never gets into this situation because it will never have hate in a group environment on anything worth a damn. Holy ***you are dense.

Jumps, DRG wins.

Ok and when you go to your MH and use the subjob glitch to where yo udo'nt have one, this will actually mean something. This game has subjobs though and you will always have one active. So your statement means nothing.

Oh yes, drk can do better in an imaginary situation which will never take place!

like I said before there's going to be dip shits that argue over jobs
whoppie *** do
yes "drg" there are issues but there are issues with every job out there give the arguing a brake

Yes, I'm going to argue, when someone comes on the job's forum and says how much it sucks and how lol it is, we're not just gonna say "ok you're right"

@Nightfyre. you said high damage will eventually overpower a DRK in a protracted fight and then mention popping a healing breath? There is NO WAY IN HELL a drg/MAGE will overpower a DRK/SAM, not even on birds, NO WAY IN HELL. That is thie biggest pile of bs ive ever read.

@Veg yeh fair enough i cant remember wat u said about sushi lol, food in battle is personal preference depending on gear i suppose

saying that

my food > +3STR on 20%STR WS mod

there food > +5STR +6DEX on a 20%STR AND 20%DEX WS mod

that should put them at a sizeable advantage.

No, that doesn't put them at an advantage. You're completely ignoring the 45 attack on rice dumpling, which is a larger advantage than all those other mods combined.

As to what i said,

Damage taken not damage dealt, derp.

DRK takes no damage and deals it back at the mob with spikes, can DRG do that? lolno.

Fact of the matter is DRG can only do one of the other, they cannot survive and DD at the same time without a tank there to back them up.

DRK can do both.

Let's say your attack is 650 before food, after dumpling
695

((695/293)-.35)/((650/293)-.35) = 8.22% increase in damage.

20% mod 5 str 5 dex

10 x .2 = less than 2% increase after getting hit w/ the alpha multiplier of ws dmg.

I have no clue how they're at the advantage. Even w/o looking at your str, your food gives x4 the increase theirs were.

keeping in mind that's for their ws dmg. For tp dmg that 5str 5 dex does less for them while that 45 attack is helping your TP phase jus tthe same.

so like im gnna sleep now and have nightmares about drgs actually being good at something >.>

be back to read what will no doubt be pages of replies 2moro

cya!

Godfuckingdammit you really are that dense.

In a party on anything stronger than merit/Dyna/Einherjhar mobs which either job should easily survive and thus don't *** count:
DRG will never have hate due to High and Super Jump, meaning the only damage they take will be AoE that the DRK would also be hit by. Both jobs are /SAM, so Seigan-TE is an equal and thus ignorable factor. Therefore, damage taken by DRK in parties >= that taken by a DRG due to the possibility of a DRK taking hate and thus additional damage.

When soloing:
DRG has far greater capacity to restore MP in extended fights due to having the most MP-efficient heals in the game. The damage a DRK takes on the most difficult DRG solos would eventually overpower a DRK's HP restoration capabilities and thus see them fall, whereas the DRG is chugging away and using the damage taken to fuel even more Healing Breaths. These Breaths occur at such high HP levels that anything that would kill a DRG through brute force would by the same measure kill a DRK because Third Eye won't last forever. DRK can regain HP through spells but due to their greater cost, will eventually run out of MP and thus die.

Now let's say if the drg was to use a kabob. I'll assume 600 base attack after buffs since drk should have higher thx to the attack bonus job traits.

kabob will put them to 660
((660/293)-.35)/((600/293)-.35) = 12.06% increase to TP AND WS dmg.

For WS, the 5 str on each food will give the same benefit and cancel out, but we still have the 12.06% increase from the attack+ on the kabob

So for the kabob we have 12.06% increase
On the sushi, they have the same str, that cancels out, so we're comparing 60 attack vs 5 dex
5 dex is gonna add 4 acc, but they should be capped as drgs on birds anyways (unelss they have shitty gear, but gonna assume capped acc since you said they had good gear), and very minimal crit rate
5 dex on ws is gonna add minimum 0 base dmg, max 1 base dmg
we'll go w/ 1.

94 dmg polearm, we'll say 8 fstr
102 DMG. 5 dex will add 1 DMG to penta (though most of the time 0, just counting it to count it)

1/102 = .98% increase in WS dmg.

So we're looking at +12% dmg for DoT AND WS vs .98% increase for WS dmg. See what I'm getting at here? Those drgs were using ***food, which they practically gained nothing from. While you were using a good food that you were getting a minimum of an 8% increase, just based on the attack alone, not even looking at the str.

I don't see how you're claiming they had the advantage when it came to food. They should have been eating kabobs. Sole sushi is gimp on birds and in more than one way

A) The food itself is horrible on birds for drg
B) It shows the drgs have no clue what they're doing. Sole sushi is 27k/stack on my server. kabobs are 4k a stack. If you're paying almost x7 on a food that will benefit you MUCH less, you obviously have no clue what you're doing, which puts their skill as players into question.

Edit: Before the acc on sushi helping a drg becomes an issue,it should really come down to the 60 attack vs 5 dex, because drg should be capped.

65 base dex and 292 polearm (capped merits, no torque) puts drg at 74% hitrate naked on birds, which means they need 41 acc to cap hitrate, including from +dex

So we have your
ant herness, 8 acc 8 dex
from there we can add
Rajas (5 dex)
nq sniper ring (5 acc)
Tihpia sting (2 acc)
Homam (6 acc)
Pcc (10 acc)

Any acc beyond this is overkill as the drg will be capped at this point. Then you have homam hands and legs, if you don't have pcc and have chiv chain (but then again you said good drgs, why would they have an antres harness and no pcc? Should be spending their money more wisely) but for the sake of the argument let's say they do have chiv chain, -5 acc, but +6 from the addition of 2 more homam, still capped.

0 reason to use sushi if you're a good geared drg and this is "Good gear" not "zomg this gear is so hard you can't count that" If that were the case, you'd see things like Aurum body, cuchulain's mantle, hq acc ring, black tathlum, love torque, ect on that list. The gear I listed isn't much at all difficult to obtain.

Btw, I'm in no way advocating ant harnes I think it sucks, but since you consider them good drgs, and you emphasized that they had ant harness, I just left it on

[quote=Sweetsnopea][/quote]
Why'd you delete it?

The moment I saw the words Antares Harness I honestly gave up on it being a worthwhile parse. Askar/Aurum for 6hit where? Sure, do the ACC body with a Rose Strap if you don't have either or don't have full Polearm merits and thus need a bit more ACC, but Antares and Sole Sushi on birds? I doubt they saw any benefit from the Sole's ACC due to completely overloading on ACC, if they did I would call into question their merits and other gear. No 2H DD with merits should be eating sushi on birds... hell, most Dual-Wield jobs can get a meat build going at birds provided they have the merits and nicer gear.