Crafstmanship Vs Magic Craftsmanship

Just curious if anyone has happened to figure out if there's a one size fits all system to know which one a particular synth needs/requires?

Incase you have no idea what I'm referring to..


Or maybe someone knows of a site that's currently compiling/listing which a certain recipe requires (like YG and the synthesis recipe list, but also adds in a column or note to say which a synth needs)?

If not, I guess I'll just have to get a craftsmanship and m. craftsmanship set and start figuring it all out on my own.

I don't think anyone is, despite this being such an important subject.

Well don't expect any timeline on my responses, but I will post my own findings. I won't back them up with stringent testing, I mean I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything here (like I did with the stats) but will just offer fellow crafters the best chances of success..

All I can tell you for sure (and it will be in this thread) is that I won't base my conclusions off just a few synths (the synths I'm doing now, at level 25+ are synths I'm pullin ~500 SP/1000 EXP, as you can imagine, I have plenty of room for testing a synth and deciding which is best and it's also in my best interest to actually figure it out) and that the only two crafts you'll ever see me test are leather and blacksmith.

That could change a year down the road or so, but any updates I provide to this thread with what the optimal conditions are will be for leather and blacksmithing (as those are the only two crafts I really do).

After 12 hours of no replies, I wrote this off as a lost cause and went and got my craftsmanship and m. craftsmanship sets, the best I had to work with (spent over 500k on them, will post the exact gear I'm working with upon my first update) and have already made plans to start testing, in my own leisurely time.. Again I'm not really doing it to provide information to the public, I'm doing it to maximize my efficiency, I'll just make sure to pass on my findings.

I've seen good results by categorizing synths this way: those taking earth/wind/fire shards are primarily physical, while synths using water/ice/lightning shards are primarily magical. Synths requiring a mixture of both, obviously, want want a more balanced setup.

Please note I have no evidence other than my own experience with this approach, I only posted it as a possible consideration for your testing. I'm eager to hear your results and the ideas of others.

I think has nothing to do with crystals at all its to do with the craft its self i found all mask in ww are magic not tried walnut yet bout to do that stage also steel awl is magic and silver javlin heads where as black lip oysters is craftman ship so are some of the fiah synths. I really think this is very importent just wish there was a way to clearly tell. I do have my own list that ive tested maybe we can compair and get a list going

I would like to get some input on this as well. I've always operated under the assumption that crafting stats are related to the craft itself, not the recipes. Thusly I use everything with m.craft on alchemy. For cooking I use a balance of m.craft, craft, and ctrl. But I dont know which stat is more important than the other in cooking.

Zam or eorzeapedia I think has a break down of which stats correlate to which craft. Without testing, I cannot confirm or disprove the validity of the correlation. But it has worked well enough for me on alc & cul.

It's not a craft by craft basis. There's a few threads out there about it (but they haven't been able to find a one size fits all correlation either). In a couple people have tried to figure out the correlation, and have shown that it varies by the recipe itself. I could go and find it again, but the evidence is something like making iron rings requires M. craftsmanship, while making a helmet requires regular craftsmanship. They're both made by ARM.

Besides if it was strictly on a craft by craft basis, then why would SE say "Among recipes in the game, there are those for which the rate of progress and chance of success are increased by higher Craftsmanship, and those for which they are determined by Magic Craftsmanship." instead of just saying crafts.

They had no problem letting us know that stats are class specific.

i assume items such as swords, bows etc require regular craftsmanship, and MAGICAL items such as wands, brands, staffs are magical craftsmanship. I got 172 craftsmanship when i make an engraved bhuj and i can take one with all NQ parts to over 200quality. In the same set of gear i'll have maybe 70-80 magic craft (cant rememebr how much exactly) and ill have a harder time succeeding with bold atttempts on a ice brand or fire brand which is of comparable rank. So Magical Items probably take magic craft, normal items probably take regular craft. But this would actually make sense and SE doesnt like that so it could just all be coincidence too.

My bad think may have miss understood craft as in recipe, every recipe has either magic craft or craftman ship like lumber is craftmamship mask are not. I base mine of the dura lose over the progress on a fail standard, if i lose 15 plus dira and only gain like 5 progress i switch out the craft gear as i have full magic set and craft set. I stick with a set when on a fail on a standard i gain 1 or 2 less progress than duraiblty, i will post some screens of this when i do some crafting today so u can see how i work mine out, see what you all think none the less glad topic has started here.

Lol jd thats so true the last,part but i was trying to hq some vintage hubys and full craft gear the synth went ok but hit unstable few times and failed lot of bolds. All plus 3 and two mats so went to test with magic gear went well no hq but, need.more to test so maybe they mixed it up. And ls bsm made like 3 aoeon scomatars on (how ever it's spelt sure u all know what i mean) full craftmanship gear and he had a rough time. So we gonna try magic on that next time just wish we had some more infomatiom from the devs to point us a bit down the right path.

That's what I've been fearing, that we're going to have just figure it out on a recipe by recipe basis.. I was really hoping to find some overall answer on what a certain recipe calls for.. But, at least according to the threads I've found, all the obvious stuff has been tested..

Assuming the information is correct (i.e. they're not lying or too stupid to determine the difference) so far these have debunked as determination of which is needed:

Crafting class
Crystals used
Type of synth (part, material or armor/weapon)
Finished stats (someone proposed that anything that has stats when finished, like gear or weapons is magic based, everything else is craftsmanship)
Materials involved (for example, gems being used in a synth would mean it needs magic)
Intricacy of the final product (a peice of jewelry requiring more detail to do than banging out a blade and making a sword/dagger)

Oh god i really hope some of them dont factor in to it lol be a nightmare, yeah not asking for full hint's just to point us down the right path lol. Would be noce if there was a sound hint or the something more drastic like orb would go unstable right away, or fail rate would go up big time.

I doubt they do, I have no reason to doubt the people (this wasn't all debunked on one thread or anything, but it did seem to be substantiated by following posters/testers)... I'm just not saying it's cold hard fact because I haven't tested it myself..

But I think you can really rule out any of those as what determines what a certain recipe needs.



I'm curious, do you think SE would actually go through and individually decide what a recipe will require? It would just make a lot more sense for there to be some linked cause (from a logistical stand point) but if there is some overall governing factor, what else could there possibly be?

Good point but maybe they did tanka wanted the game.to be sp out there maybe they did would not shock me but ur right maybe we aint got it yet there.must be way to tell but woth out and slight hint or randpm fact we stuck to testing.like with getting 700 qualty and u get, nq item maybe we should copy this post on the lordstone maybe a dev will be.nice and reply

You can post it if you want, but I'm not. I'd rather not start posting on anything strictly SE governed.. If for no other reason than sometimes I can be pretty stupid and don't want to get myself banned and even risk that the ban would carry over to my account.

I really doubt they'd give us anything more to go on anyways. I mean, at least to them, there has to be a reason why they weren't specific or offering any further insight.. There's only a handful of things they're seemingly being specifically vague about, I doubt that's just out of pure chance.

Can anyone else think of any common ground that magical craftsmanship or craftsmanship could be based, other than the ones I've already listed? I've been thinking for two days now on any thing else it could possibly be based on, and I can't think of a single thing. I suppose it's possible that there is no pattern and they're individually programmed/decided, but I still doubt it, I feel there's something I'm missing, and that everyone else has missed.

They made a point to tell us that the requirements vary by the synth, so that we understood there's a reason why some synths that should be easy, blow up in our faces and some that we should really never be able to complete at the current level, but are with relative ease..

I feel like a detective or something... I know there's something I'm missing, but I just can't figure out what it is..

So any ideas?

I may post a link but main reason i dont like posting either lot's of flameing and darma on them your right there is something a miss, we just have to find out what that is. but i was checking and ther are lot's of post on the subject even more so in the jpn forums we al seem to have some of the puzzle just not the full thing yet :(

the good thing here is when selecting gear, often times you don't have to sacrifice one for the other. Seems like each slot specializes in a specific boost type whether that be Control, craftsmanship, or magic craftsmanship

First few recipes I've verified for..

Leather Satchel Bag - Craftsmanship
Leather Duckbills - Craftsmanship
Leather Jackboots - Magic Craftsmanship
Dodoskin Jackboots - Magic Craftsmanship

Will post them as I get them.

Leather Caligae (Normal, Green and Black) - Craftsmanship
Raptor Sinew Cord - Magic Craftsmanship
Iron Chakram - Magic Craftsmanship
Iron File - Magic Craftsmanship
Buffalo Leather - Magic Craftsmanship
Leather Harness (Ochre) - Magic Craftsmanship

No recipes to report back with yet, just wanted to say I can start seeing emerging patterns.. For instance so far it seems all leather and sinew cords use M. Craftsmanship, as well as putting weapons together (at least the ones from BSM and TAN), while certain types of gear require Craftsmanship (Caligae for example).

I'm confident there's an underlying pattern I'll discover eventually, just need to keep writing down every synth I come across and what it uses, soon I'll be able to put it all together.

Not much to report back with yet, almost all my recipe testing is done with crafting leves, so I can only test what I'm given in leves, and now I'm pretty much just getting the same things over and over, however, I do have a couple to add..

Leather Bracers - Craftsmanship
Iron Dagger - Magic Craftsmanship
Iron Nails - Magic Craftsmanship
Bronze Knuckles - Magic Craftsmanship

*Dodoskin Field Belt* - Craftsmanship

*Kinda too high to reliably tell one way or another, but it does seem to have a minor trend towards Craftsmanship

Bronze Gladius Blade - Craftsmanship
Leather Jackboots - Craftsmanship
Brass Gladius - Magic Craftsmanship
Iron Pliers - Magic Craftsmanship
Dodoskin Harness - Magic Craftsmanship
Iron Crossguard - Magic Craftsmanship
Bronze Spearhead - Magic Craftsmanship

Amusing reading all your replies. Most of you sound like you don't know what you are talking about at all. Most crafts that require a training book require magical craftsmanship. Most crafts that require any kind of support are craftsmanship. If they require both, then obviously you need a mixture of craftsmanship and magical craftsmanship gear. Another thing to note, craftsmanship synths can only go unstable to the element of the crystals or shards being used. If a craft requires magical craftsmanship, it can go unstable to any element.

If it were that simple, don't you think this 'common link' would have already been discovered? If this is such common knowledge, why is it unknown? Seriously, Google it, I spent a couple hours Googling trying to find a guide or a site listing what needs what..

BTW, my testing contradicts what you're saying, and I'll trust my own testing over some random person..

Either way..


If you, or anyone else doesn't want to use the information, that's okay. I'm just posting my own experiences so that someone else can use what I've already verified works..

You barely craft.... I viewed your character. Take it from a real crafter. I know what I am doing when it comes to crafting, but let's take his word for it -.-

The only thing I will say is... Beware of SSS (Small Sample Size).
Ryan Theriot would out hit Albert Pujols during a game occasionally, that does not make Theriot a better hitter.

My findings consistently repeat themselves.

Also, having more crafts than me doesn't add any merit to what you say, or take away merit from me. For all I know, you botted your crafts and for all you know this isn't my only character. Also having several crafts in the 30's doesn't make you 'a real crafter'.. That's just elitist nonsense.

Once again, if you don't want to use it, then don't. Like I said, I'm just putting up what actually works for me so anyone who cares to can use it as well. When I consistently have trouble crafting something in a certain set, finish it with only a small amount of durability left, then can switch just the one for the other (craftsmanship for magic craftsmanship) without changing any of the other stats up, it's pretty obvious.

Keyword being consistency.

Thought I would jump in here...you sound like an elitist. "Take it from a real crafter." You don't even have a 50 craft and you have no evidence or true data to support your claims which were stated earlier. Take it from a real PLAYER. You're spouting nonsense.

I'm rank 50 Armorer -.- With everything else approaching 40

Apologies, it was not displayed as 50 when I viewed it, but the fact still remains that you are spouting nonsense and it's making you come off as an elitist.

Anyways, carrying on.

Iron Dagger Blade - Craftsmanship
Leather Survival Belt - Craftsmanship
Leather Duckbills - Magic Craftsmanship
Iron Spatha - Magic Craftsmanship
Iron Awl - Magic Craftsmanship